Prime vs Prime, Tomasz Adamek vs Jack Dempsey

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Evander is one of the greatest counter-punchers in history. Even in a war he would be giving as good as he got. It's no worse than a 50/50 fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Foreman wrecks Holyfield. Absolutely brutalises him.

Holyfield is one of the most ill-disciplined, egotistical boxers to have ever drawn breath (that says a whole lot), and hed be DYING to prove he could outslug Foreman (as he was at pains to make a point of in their actual bout).

Holyfield would be humbled by the young Foreman. SEVERELY.

Yeah, I kind of see this too. I believe Holyfield had the physical tools to win it, but, as you said would probably get too into his warrior spirit and look to trade and then (IMO) he would meet his demise shortly after that

Holyfield does have the tools and versatility, but he'd blow it 100 times outta 100. Hes a blockhead who just could not resist a fire-fight against someone with Foreman's reputation.

I remember Manny Steward remarking about how people think Holyfield is this humble guy, but he has an insatiable need, "to be the best everything...best puncher, best boxer, best gym rat, best Evangelist, best in bed."

Steward has one of the bigger egos in the world. Not that Evander doesn't, most anyone great at anything does. That's why Derrick Rose is such a breath of fresh air.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Evander is one of the greatest counter-punchers in history. Even in a war he would be giving as good as he got. It's no worse than a 50/50 fight.

I know hes your boy (he was mine a long time ago, too), but he'd be wheelchaired outta the ring, the way he would go about FIGHTING Foreman. He wouldnt even DREAM the word counter-punch. Itd be all balls-out to prove he was tougher and meaner than Foreman.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Steward does make me laugh, mind.

At the end of EVERY fight, he sums it up with, "And this fight has gone exactly the way I expected it to."



I still dont get why he needs HBO when he could make a comfortable living as a gambler.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Evander is one of the greatest counter-punchers in history. Even in a war he would be giving as good as he got. It's no worse than a 50/50 fight.

I know hes your boy (he was mine a long time ago, too), but he'd be wheelchaired outta the ring, the way he would go about FIGHTING Foreman. He wouldnt even DREAM the word counter-punch. Itd be all balls-out to prove he was tougher and meaner than Foreman.

Funny that you're so certain he wouldn't use any skills against prime Foreman and just bulldoze into him when he didn't do that with old Foreman. While I agree he would have been better served to use his skills in certain instances, he wasn't as dumb a fighter as you're making him out to be.

You seem to be fixated on the first Bowe fight when he went after him with abandon. That was because he thought Bowe had no heart and would wilt. I have a hard time believing he would think that about George Foreman. Evander's truly biggest fights were Tyson, the Bowe rematch & the Lewis rematch. He fought intelligently and disciplined in all of them.

For the record, I love George too. Just not as much.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You make a fair point about him expecting Bowe to wilt in the first bout.

He did lose the big exchanges though, and Foreman is so much more punishing. He also went after old George plenty.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He would never fight anyone passively. that was just in response to the statement that he wouldn't even try to counter-punch. There is no doubt it would be a violent fight, none at all.

[Bricks]

I tend to agree with loaded gloves and beaujack....Dempsey takes any version of adamek easily within 1-2 rounds.....Dempsey was iron chinned, fast, incredibly tough and powerful, adamek has a tendency to be tentative early and i see it as another tyson-spinks in terms of a steamroll.

I wouldnt call detroit a troll, he has some outlandish opinions here, but he has tried to justify them in a way which suggests he is genuine in his opinion. It isnt totally uneducated it offers some evidence.

[JDC]

The question as posed, scandalizes the intellect.

But it appears to have stirred the pot.

[Bricks]

I do see your point Detroit....how do we quantify a chin....?

Just to play devils advocate here..... say a guy like Frank Bruno used to get hit hard and would freeze like a statue yet he would rarely go down could not be taken for the count by some hellacious punchers....he took some hellish shots from Lewis and Bruno, and Witherspoon but was upright at the end....... than a guy like razor ruddock went down frequently but was rare;ly seriously hurt and could come back and win..........so which one had the good chin?

Chris Eubanks is considered iron chinned but we have to ask ourselves why.....?...is it for principally on his standing up to benn for 24 rounds without being hurt or knocked down after taking many clean shots and for doing the same with a HUGELY bigger man in Carl Thompson for 21 rounds befiore his flesh gave way?.....or is it because eubanks went down a few numerous times and came back to fight hard eg v watson, and calzaghe?

[dempseyfire]

Frazier is Dempsey's worst nightmare, impervious to his power and pushing him back like a rag doll while he slams brutal hooks into Jack's tiny little body.

Impervious to his power? Are you suggesting a Bonevena hits harder than Dempsey??

Tiny? Dempsey was a bigger man than Frazier, there is footage of them next to each other and Dempsey has the larger frame and is taller. Actually in terms of body frame/structure, Frazier was one of the smallest legit HW champs outside of Burns and Spinks.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Impervious to his power is a beauty

Dempsey caves in Frazier's face before the latter even gets a sweat going.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Frazier is Dempsey's worst nightmare, impervious to his power and pushing him back like a rag doll while he slams brutal hooks into Jack's tiny little body.

Impervious to his power? Are you suggesting a Bonevena hits harder than Dempsey??

Tiny? Dempsey was a bigger man than Frazier, there is footage of them next to each other and Dempsey has the larger frame and is taller. Actually in terms of body frame/structure, Frazier was one of the smallest legit HW champs outside of Burns and Spinks.

Your bat signal is way out of sync. Are you suggesting that Frazier was in his prime in his 12th fight? Jack might have a chance if he fought him then. Prime vs Prime? Frazier whips his ass.

[Goodnight, Irene]

One thing I will say for Frazier is that his beating Bonavena so inexperienced is a credit to him which people ALWAYS look at as a detraction, and God, it pisses me off.

[dempseyfire]

Frazier is Dempsey's worst nightmare, impervious to his power and pushing him back like a rag doll while he slams brutal hooks into Jack's tiny little body.

Impervious to his power? Are you suggesting a Bonevena hits harder than Dempsey??

Tiny? Dempsey was a bigger man than Frazier, there is footage of them next to each other and Dempsey has the larger frame and is taller. Actually in terms of body frame/structure, Frazier was one of the smallest legit HW champs outside of Burns and Spinks.

Your bat signal is way out of sync. Are you suggesting that Frazier was in his prime in his 12th fight? Jack might have a chance if he fought him then. Prime vs Prime? Frazier whips his ass.

It's suggesting Frazier could be hurt by a come forward brawler. Joe wasn't in his prime, but it's not like his chin magically got stronger as he fought more often. Frazier had a great chin but it was vulnerable, especially early on . . Ali was able to seriously hurt him early in their rematch, and ALi was not a very hard puncher.

On the other hand, the Flynn fight (likely a dive) aside, Dempsey never showed weaknesses vs come forward guys . . he could be outslicked/outboxed (like by the Buster Mathis of his day, Willie Meehan) in 4 round fights, or past his best (Tunney, Sharkey) but he never showed weaknesses vs pressure fighters . .he ate them up. And now you are saying Frazier "kicks his ass" vs a guy who is a harder puncher, at least equal in durability, faster, and was probably the best inside fighter in HW history? Yeah, out of sync . .

[Cutman Scabbers]

Dempsey's frightening power downed a 6'6'', 245lb Jess Willard how many times in the first round, and shattered his jaw.

This isn't Vitali Klitschko who won't mix it up and fires from a safety first, long range distance and will wait 10 rds for a ref to step in and end the tedium for him. This is DEMPSEY.

Adamek wouldn't be manouvering round a big fatty like Arreola, and even on those shaky old films Dempsey is super fast. Adamek's porous defence equals Dempsey KO1 via total annihilation.

Society does not create men like Jack Dempsey anymore.

At least not in America? I wonder...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Impervious to his power? Are you suggesting a Bonevena hits harder than Dempsey??

Tiny? Dempsey was a bigger man than Frazier, there is footage of them next to each other and Dempsey has the larger frame and is taller. Actually in terms of body frame/structure, Frazier was one of the smallest legit HW champs outside of Burns and Spinks.

Your bat signal is way out of sync. Are you suggesting that Frazier was in his prime in his 12th fight? Jack might have a chance if he fought him then. Prime vs Prime? Frazier whips his ass.

It's suggesting Frazier could be hurt by a come forward brawler. Joe wasn't in his prime, but it's not like his chin magically got stronger as he fought more often. Frazier had a great chin but it was vulnerable, especially early on . . Ali was able to seriously hurt him early in their rematch, and ALi was not a very hard puncher.

On the other hand, the Flynn fight (likely a dive) aside, Dempsey never showed weaknesses vs come forward guys . . he could be outslicked/outboxed (like by the Buster Mathis of his day, Willie Meehan) in 4 round fights, or past his best (Tunney, Sharkey) but he never showed weaknesses vs pressure fighters . .he ate them up. And now you are saying Frazier "kicks his ass" vs a guy who is a harder puncher, at least equal in durability, faster, and was probably the best inside fighter in HW history? Yeah, out of sync . .

I've always said Frazier kicks his ass, never any other outcome the million times you've been butt hurt over my opinions. I also clearly stated that I was taking some heat off of Detroit with the impervious to his punches comment and Jack could clearly hurt him. But you conveniently ignored that in the midst of your hissy fit over your beloved Manassa Mauler.

[loaded_gloves]

At least not in America? I wonder...

Certainly Helenius, Povetkin and the brothers Klitschko are not animals like ole JD.

I don't think they exist anymore.