Lennox Lewis Versus

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You are right, I have an axe to grind with him.

Not a personal one by any means, its purely aimed at his rep (he did get damn lucky against Ellis at a minimum, BTW, and had a double-dose of luck against Young --- I refuse to seriously credit him for either Young fight).

Still, I believe what I wrote is pretty compelling --- that Lewis was just WAYYY superior (agree that Shavers is one shot away at any time, however).

I understand, I go off on guys like Lopez & Foster when it isn't personal but more driven by others. I just really have a hard time seeing Lennox landing the first bob here. It's only out of respect for his superior skills that I make it 50/50. If it makes you feel any better, i'd bet on Byrd or Ruiz over earnie.

[ThatOne]

It's laughable how low Elmer rates Lennox Lewis.

I make him a pickem, a favorite, or a live underdog against any fighter I listed.

We are talking about a skilled boxer with size and reach. We aren't talking about Jess Willard or Gerry Cooney

['Frilla]

Its funny how alot of people think Lewis beats Frazier easily.

Frazier shut down the cockiest, close to perfect outside fighter of all time.

Lewis will be no different. Frazier was the best slipper of his time, Lewis would face nothing like Joe.

I see it like this, Frazier traps Lewis - throws a left to the body - then a left to the head. DONE.

[dempseyfire]

Shavers just isnt in Lewis' league at all. Lewis could KO him by accident. He had pourous defense and would be putty if struck with Lewis' overhand right. Ali and Holmes had a limited punch --- Lewis does not (although he may well eschew it for a safety-first gameplan --- which is fine --- he could own Shavers as he pleases).

Shavers gets way too much cred in general. He isnt even near to Lewis' league.

I've never seen anyone place Shavers in Lewis's league from a ratings standpoint. While Shavers is overrated in some circles, he is underrated compared to the useless bum you paint him as every time his name comes up.

He stopped Norton, Young, Ellis, Williams and Bugner. And he landed shots on Holmes & Ali that Lewis could have never dreamed of standing up to.

Did he get lucky all of those times? Or is Lennox just too damn powerful and intelligent to get caught with a punch from a guy who wasn't in his league?

Lewis got caught by guys much slower and dangerous than Earnie . . Lennox's defense was not bad but not great at the upper level. Earnier at his very best also had very good speed (there's not much film of Shavers at his best IMO . .by the time of the Ali fight he'd already slowed down considerably . .but watch him vs Lyle or the 1st fight vs Henry Clark, very quick hands). Shavers, despite having stamina issues, was pretty durable and most dangerous when he was hurt. If Lewis tries to do a Golota, he gets caught big by return fire. If he tries to box and stay outside (the much more likely scenario, as he did vs an old Holyfield who didn't have half of Earnie's power) . .I see Lewis winning wide and then getting caught at some point just like Holmes and Ali did (Shavers also has the looping right which works best on tall fighters). But Lewis doesn't have their chin.

Pretty much the same scenario with Lyle, although Lyle had better stamina and overall skills than Shavers, and a better jab. Who did Lewis ever beat on the level of a peak Lyle?? The 37 year old Holyfield would be as close as you get.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Lewis is getting under-rated right at the moment.

[AngryGoon38]

Lennox Lewis vs

Ron Lyle: Lennox box cautiosly and will try to use his longer reach. He will be a safety first fighter and a killer later. He beats Lyle either way if Lennox comes at his very best.


Joe Frazier: Lennox, At his very best, if he is fighting this great fighting machine, the great Smokin' Joe of the late 60s and early 70s (before the fight of the century), would get KO'd. I don't think that he could hurt Joe, being Joe at his very best. Lennox won't be able to handle the pressure that Joe would have put on him. Ask the great Muhammad Ali in fight #1

Jimmy Young: It would be a tactical fight from the beginning. But I think if Jimmy, the one that beat the great George Foreman and Muhammad Ali (got robbed on that one) comes in great shape, will give Lennox a boxing lesson

Larry Holmes: Another tactical fight. Both of them using their jabs. Holmes jab was sharper and quicker. Holmes might go to the canvas once, but he had great recuperative powers. He stops Lennox in 12. Lewis stamina is a concern in this fight like in the Frazier fight.

Earnie Shavers: It is a 50/50, but one punch from Earnie like he did the great Larry Holmes, I don't think that Lennox would get up from that one.

Ken Norton: Another tactical match. Both using jabs and counters. Lennox is not Big George nor Earnie Shavers in punching power. The Norton that beat the great Muhammad Ali 3 times will pressure Lennox and Lennox wilts between 13th and 15th rounds

George Foreman: I cannot see him outbox Foreman. Foreman by KO. Lennox is not Jimmy Young, nor Ali nor Holmes in boxing savvy.

Muhammad Ali: Too much boxing skill for Lewis to handle. He had everything more than Lewis except, I think, in punchig power, Ali was inferior in that department. But Ali had a decent punch, faster jab, accuracy, and too much foot speed and hand speed for Lennox to handle. Prime for prime, a mismatch. Ali by TKO late or a sound beating for an UD. I will pick TKO for "The Greatest" because of Lennox's chin.

Jerry Quarry: Quarry would be too small. I cannot see him get inside. Lennox by cuts in 9 rounds.

Oscar Bonavena: Bonavena's pressure will haunt Lewis. Argentina wins the world crown against England, this time, there is no Hand of God by Diego Maradona but the Fist of Oscar. Bonavena was too tough. Ali did not outboxed him nor break him until the end.

WoW on Bonevena. I like Oscar quite a bit but against Lewis equals a horrible style matchup ala Hearns-Cuevas. I gotta say Lewis by Brutal Ko, likely in the 4th.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The, "Fist of Oscar," had better be wrapped around a handgun if he figures to beat Lewis D

Seriously, Bonavena beats Lewis!? Cmon, Elmer. Lewis, sooner or later, would flat kill the guy, or at least win wide on points.

[elmersalsa]

Bonavena beats him!? Young delivers a boxing lesson? How the hell could anyone observe Lewis' MONSTER right hand and remark he couldnt hurt Frazier!? Couldnt dent Norton!?

Lennox struggled with goofy-googy fighters like Frank Bruno. How he gonna beat Frazier or Jimmy Young who were 3 levels better?

[BoxBuzz]

Lewis beats Young (barely), Bonavena, and Quarry. Lyle and Shavers to me are 50/50. Loses to Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Norton.

Really, I think I'd put money on both Earnie and Lyle vs Lennox. Lewis is a better overall boxer than both but both hit like mack trucks, had good speed, and took their power to the late rounds. When I see a fatigued Lewis throwing one punch at a time vs Mercer, Mavoric or an old Evander, I think he would be very vulnerable to getting caught by some big shots vs those guys once he started getting tired. They were much better than your Tuas, Rahmans, and Briggs's.

Hey dempsey I respect your opinion. And though I currently disagree on your Norton conclusion, would you mind giving a bit of technical descript for why you believe this? Your reasoning for Earnie and Lyle would not seem to apply here, though it does not rule it out either. I know you think in style/mechanics mode, and I find when you provide details it's immensely interesting even when I'm not in the buyin' mood. I tend to integrate the mechanics with what I know about the psyche of fighters to come to my conclusions. Norton could be remarkably stone cold in some fights (when he humiliated Quarry for example)....and his bitterness when he "lost" to Larry Holmes, and Ali is pretty revealing as well. Although who of us could handle those sort of razor thin disappointments? He froze a few times when faced with some big punchers and that is in my matrix of thinking here as well. But wow did he destroy a few folks along the way..

Anyway I'm having a hard time visualizing his win over Lewis. Open my mind here...even if you think I"m a lost cause...lol.

[dempseyfire]

Lewis of course has a chance vs Norton if he goes all destroyer mode on him, but that just wasn't in his nature (whereas Shavers, Cooney, and Foreman were all come foreward, I'd like to end this fight as quickly as possible kind of guys). Even in pretty much the one example people give of Lennox coming out and bombing someone out in 1, they point to the Golota fight, a match in which Lewis didn't really come out so aggressively, and who only opened up once it was clear Golota's head was somewhere else (stories abound how Golota's handlers literally had to physically drag a medicated Andrew out of the dressing room) and he wasn't throwing anything back. This is a same guy who pawed jabs out at an opponent whose hands were at his knees and who was ballin' like a baby (McCall II)

Now, that established, I think that Norton's style is all wrong for Lennox boxing wise. Hard fast jab, excellent body work, good defense against the jab, excellent stamina and work-rate, excellent combination puncher and very good at countering. I think he'll get into the late rounds, and then basically take control of the fight and end things with an overhand right (again, his best punch, like Shavers, works best vs taller fighters).

[BoxBuzz]

appreciate your feedback on this. I'l need to chew on it for awhile. Your point about Lewis beating some big names that were compromised such as Golata and McCall, come to think about it we might want to add Tyson to that list as well, combined with his flat out loss to Rahman should sober his stalwarts..... at least to some degree.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I do not rate Lewis when under pressure (guy just flat forgot he had a huge punch when under the pump) and a long bout with Norton would pressure him.

If I were in Lewis' corner, I would advise him to go for Norton the way he went after Golota and Grant. Lewis could still win a decision against Norton, but the more he boxes, the more Lewis' chances sink...

[jezzamundo]

Lewis TKO6 Ron Lyle - Lyle could stop him early, but I think Lewis wins this most of the time.

Lewis TKO8 Joe Frazier - Could go either way, but I see Lewis boxing cautiously, throwing a lot of jabs and imposing him size upon Frazier, eventually wearing him down around the 8th.

Lewis UD12 Jimmy Young - Ugly, boring fight where Young makes Lewis look bad at stages. 8-4 type decision to Lewis.

Larry Holmes SD12 Lewis - I think both these guys give the other problems. Holmes struggled with lesser fighters and Lewis was vulnerable to a good jab (let alone the best jab in HW history). I definitely see this going the distance, though Holmes might stop Lewis over 15 rounds.

Lewis KO5 Earnie Shavers - One flush right hand and it's over for Lewis. That said, he would definitely box cautiously and win this most of the time.

Lewis UD12 Ken Norton - I can see multiple possible outcomes in this fight. Either could knock the other out and either could win a decision. Lewis could conceivably blow Norton away early, but I think it's more likely that Ken survives.

George Foreman KO4 Lewis - Another fight I can see going either way, but I tend to think Foreman softens Lewis up with the jab before connecting with his power shots. I like Lewis to win a decision or stop Foreman late in a rematch.

Muhammad Ali UD12 Lewis - I see this as being a battle of the jabs, which Ali wins through superior speed and fitness, about 8-4 on the scorecards.

Lewis TKO6 Jerry Quarry - Quarry is brave, but I see Lewis battering him, huge size advantage, would control with the jab before stopping him with uppercuts.

Oscar Bonavena - haven't seen him fight.