Jack Dempsey against Rocky Marciano both primes ?

[beaujack]

In a poll of boxing experts who saw both Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano in their primes,
almost unanimously picked the much faster Dempsey over Marciano. The poll was taken during Marciano's title reign. What say you ?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I agree with them.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Its easier sometimes to go with the legend than a guy whos still boxing and has no career perspective yet, so a poll now, IMO, is fairer than a poll then.

Having said that,

Dempsey is my pick here. On paper, he has significant advantages, and smaller disadvantages. Biggest issue is swiftness --- swiftness of attack, and swiftness of reflexes (hand, foot, etc). Dempsey starts faster and I see that as the difference (also why Dempsey beats Frazier, IMO). Once you were on the hook with Dempsey, it was VERY tough getting off it, and Marciano isnt the type of guy Id pick to do it.

However,

Its a rough, violent fight. That suits Marciano down to the ground, so he will definitely have his chances and they are better than this match on paper suggests.

[raylawpc]

According to Murray Woroner's computer, Marciano would stop Dempsey in 13 rounds:

The round by round summary:

Referee Ruby Goldstein was announced, the fighters were introduced, and the bell rang for Round 1.

Round 1: Dempsey took the 1st stanza on crowding body shots and quick counters that brought some blood to Rocky's mouth as the round ended. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 2: Dempsey continued to work on Marciano's body with hooking rights under the heart. Rocky got in a rip to the mid-section but took a hard left-right combination that had him grabbing for a clinch. A straight right to the head by Dempsey and Marciano was bleeding again, this time from the nose. Rocky ignored it and the 2 fighters got into a toe-to-toe street brawl, connecting furiously with little attempt at defense. A right to the head made Dempsey stumble but Jack landed more and Rocky was bleeding badly as the round ended. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 3: Marciano opened up on Dempsey's head with combinations and floored the Mauler with an explosive right. After the mandatory 8 count, Dempsey moved in close to nullify Marciano's brutal attack and scored with a solid left as they parted. Again, they squared up and traded head shots, neither man willing to give an inch. (Round: Marciano)

Round 4: The fighters took turns snapping necks in this round, demonstrating their ability to take punishment. (Round: even)

Round 5: The pace began to tell. Marciano shook Dempsey with hooks to the head and the Mauler countered with a right under the heart that got to Rocky. Marciano demonstrated his nonstop punching technique, flailing away with both hands at Dempsey's chest and head. Dempsey concentrated on Marciano's body in the exchange. (Round: even)

Round 6: Dempsey mounted a fierce attack scoring with a left to the body and right to the head, but received a hard left to the mouth and a jolting uppercut by Marciano. Rocky went into a deep crouch, bobbing and weaving, and Dempsey followed suit. Jack whipped both fists to the body and was straightened up by Rocky's right. Dempsey's weaving, jerking motion made Rocky miss and Jack got in a good left before the round ended. (Round: even)

Round 7: Dempsey dominated the 7th with quick, explosive combinations fired from his weaving crouch. A left to the mouth slowed Rocky and a series of lefts and rights to the head jolted him. (Round: Dempsey)
Round 8: Marciano came back strong making Dempsey miss and shocking him with body smashes. Rocky tied Jack up and scored with both hands after the break. Then Jack missed a left over the head and Rocky leaped in with a left and right to the jaw and Dempsey went down. He took a 9 count sitting in the middle of the ring then leaped up and challenged the Brockton Blockbuster toe-to-toe, both men pumping hooks at each other as fast as their arms would move. (Round: Marciano)

Round 9: Rocky dominated the tiring Dempsey almost completely in this round. Dempsey, trying to rush in after a break, received jolting hooks under the heart and a left to the head that drove him back. A left hook to the mouth, a straight right smash, and another vicious left, and Dempsey went down for the 3rd time. Up at 9, he was checked by Referee Goldstein, then flew back at Marciano, giving as much as he received as the round concluded. (Round: Marciano)

Round 10: Rocky landed good combinations to the head and received straight lefts to chin and body. The fighters' faces were lumped and pulpy from the punishment received. Marciano whipped an explosive right to the body and followed with a left to the chin and a brutal right uppercut that put Dempsey down a 4th time. Jack got up more slowly this time and weathered Rocky's attack until the bell. (Round: Marciano)

Round 11: Dempsey found his 2nd wind and took the fight to Marciano, sidestepping Rock's attack and shooting lefts that brought a flow of blood from Marciano's nose. Dempsey ripped another left hook and Marciano went into a bob and weave, blood streaming from his face. The fighters exchanged good body shots and Dempsey landed a slashing left and right at the bell. (Round: even)

Round 12: After having absorbed brutal punishment all through the fight, Dempsey seemed to take charge of the battered Marciano in this round. Marciano, always bulling forward, was staggered with 2 exploding shots to the mouth. A Dempsey hook to the head had Rocky hanging on. Dempsey rushed to the kill, scoring with a left, but Rocky managed to tie him up. Jack broke and swung a left-right-left to Rock's jaw. But the Brockton Blockbuster would not go down. He took everything Jack could throw and survived the round. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 13: Dempsey charged in for the kill but Rocky had revived and met him with a left hook to the head. Dempsey was stunned and on the defensive as Rocky whipped a flashing left and right to the mouth. Dempsey threw a left hook but Marciano countered with a head-rattling right to the point of the chin and Dempsey went down again. After a mandatory 8 count, Jack rose to his feet and tried to fight back but Marciano was too strong, too determined. The Rock charged like a wild animal, smashing body blows and straightening Dempsey up with rights. Dempsey had to fight furiously to ward off the charging Rocky's flurry of rights and lefts to the head. Rocky continued to batter through Dempsey's defenses. Another buzz saw of brutal combinations to the head and jaw put the Manassa Mauler down and out.

Winner: Marciano, by a KO at 2:28 of the 13th round. Dempsey had been floored 6 times, Marciano none.

['Frilla]

Interesting.

Sounds like it would be one hell of a fight!

It would make for exactly the kind of fight both fighters are into.

Im going with Dempsey here, simply because imo he is the more aggressive, faster fighter out of the 2.

[hhascup]

According to Murray Woroner's computer, Marciano would stop Dempsey in 13 rounds:

The round by round summary:

Referee Ruby Goldstein was announced, the fighters were introduced, and the bell rang for Round 1.

Round 1: Dempsey took the 1st stanza on crowding body shots and quick counters that brought some blood to Rocky's mouth as the round ended. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 2: Dempsey continued to work on Marciano's body with hooking rights under the heart. Rocky got in a rip to the mid-section but took a hard left-right combination that had him grabbing for a clinch. A straight right to the head by Dempsey and Marciano was bleeding again, this time from the nose. Rocky ignored it and the 2 fighters got into a toe-to-toe street brawl, connecting furiously with little attempt at defense. A right to the head made Dempsey stumble but Jack landed more and Rocky was bleeding badly as the round ended. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 3: Marciano opened up on Dempsey's head with combinations and floored the Mauler with an explosive right. After the mandatory 8 count, Dempsey moved in close to nullify Marciano's brutal attack and scored with a solid left as they parted. Again, they squared up and traded head shots, neither man willing to give an inch. (Round: Marciano)

Round 4: The fighters took turns snapping necks in this round, demonstrating their ability to take punishment. (Round: even)

Round 5: The pace began to tell. Marciano shook Dempsey with hooks to the head and the Mauler countered with a right under the heart that got to Rocky. Marciano demonstrated his nonstop punching technique, flailing away with both hands at Dempsey's chest and head. Dempsey concentrated on Marciano's body in the exchange. (Round: even)

Round 6: Dempsey mounted a fierce attack scoring with a left to the body and right to the head, but received a hard left to the mouth and a jolting uppercut by Marciano. Rocky went into a deep crouch, bobbing and weaving, and Dempsey followed suit. Jack whipped both fists to the body and was straightened up by Rocky's right. Dempsey's weaving, jerking motion made Rocky miss and Jack got in a good left before the round ended. (Round: even)

Round 7: Dempsey dominated the 7th with quick, explosive combinations fired from his weaving crouch. A left to the mouth slowed Rocky and a series of lefts and rights to the head jolted him. (Round: Dempsey)
Round 8: Marciano came back strong making Dempsey miss and shocking him with body smashes. Rocky tied Jack up and scored with both hands after the break. Then Jack missed a left over the head and Rocky leaped in with a left and right to the jaw and Dempsey went down. He took a 9 count sitting in the middle of the ring then leaped up and challenged the Brockton Blockbuster toe-to-toe, both men pumping hooks at each other as fast as their arms would move. (Round: Marciano)

Round 9: Rocky dominated the tiring Dempsey almost completely in this round. Dempsey, trying to rush in after a break, received jolting hooks under the heart and a left to the head that drove him back. A left hook to the mouth, a straight right smash, and another vicious left, and Dempsey went down for the 3rd time. Up at 9, he was checked by Referee Goldstein, then flew back at Marciano, giving as much as he received as the round concluded. (Round: Marciano)

Round 10: Rocky landed good combinations to the head and received straight lefts to chin and body. The fighters' faces were lumped and pulpy from the punishment received. Marciano whipped an explosive right to the body and followed with a left to the chin and a brutal right uppercut that put Dempsey down a 4th time. Jack got up more slowly this time and weathered Rocky's attack until the bell. (Round: Marciano)

Round 11: Dempsey found his 2nd wind and took the fight to Marciano, sidestepping Rock's attack and shooting lefts that brought a flow of blood from Marciano's nose. Dempsey ripped another left hook and Marciano went into a bob and weave, blood streaming from his face. The fighters exchanged good body shots and Dempsey landed a slashing left and right at the bell. (Round: even)

Round 12: After having absorbed brutal punishment all through the fight, Dempsey seemed to take charge of the battered Marciano in this round. Marciano, always bulling forward, was staggered with 2 exploding shots to the mouth. A Dempsey hook to the head had Rocky hanging on. Dempsey rushed to the kill, scoring with a left, but Rocky managed to tie him up. Jack broke and swung a left-right-left to Rock's jaw. But the Brockton Blockbuster would not go down. He took everything Jack could throw and survived the round. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 13: Dempsey charged in for the kill but Rocky had revived and met him with a left hook to the head. Dempsey was stunned and on the defensive as Rocky whipped a flashing left and right to the mouth. Dempsey threw a left hook but Marciano countered with a head-rattling right to the point of the chin and Dempsey went down again. After a mandatory 8 count, Jack rose to his feet and tried to fight back but Marciano was too strong, too determined. The Rock charged like a wild animal, smashing body blows and straightening Dempsey up with rights. Dempsey had to fight furiously to ward off the charging Rocky's flurry of rights and lefts to the head. Rocky continued to batter through Dempsey's defenses. Another buzz saw of brutal combinations to the head and jaw put the Manassa Mauler down and out.

Winner: Marciano, by a KO at 2:28 of the 13th round. Dempsey had been floored 6 times, Marciano none.

Here's all you need to know about computer fights. In September of 1970, they used the same computer that produced the Marciano-Ali fight and the others that were reported on the radio, to pick the winner of the Joe Frazier vs. Bob Foster heavyweight title fight in November of 1970. The computer picked Foster to stop Frazier in the sixth round. Since Frazier knocked Foster out in the second round, the computer could not have been more wrong. In fact, Frazier hit Foster so hard that he injured his ankle while he was going down.

[BoxBuzz]

There are just too many variables for a computer to be effective.

With that said, here is a picture of the actual computer that had Foster KO'ing Joe Frazier.

[raylawpc]

According to Murray Woroner's computer, Marciano would stop Dempsey in 13 rounds:

The round by round summary:

Referee Ruby Goldstein was announced, the fighters were introduced, and the bell rang for Round 1.

Round 1: Dempsey took the 1st stanza on crowding body shots and quick counters that brought some blood to Rocky's mouth as the round ended. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 2: Dempsey continued to work on Marciano's body with hooking rights under the heart. Rocky got in a rip to the mid-section but took a hard left-right combination that had him grabbing for a clinch. A straight right to the head by Dempsey and Marciano was bleeding again, this time from the nose. Rocky ignored it and the 2 fighters got into a toe-to-toe street brawl, connecting furiously with little attempt at defense. A right to the head made Dempsey stumble but Jack landed more and Rocky was bleeding badly as the round ended. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 3: Marciano opened up on Dempsey's head with combinations and floored the Mauler with an explosive right. After the mandatory 8 count, Dempsey moved in close to nullify Marciano's brutal attack and scored with a solid left as they parted. Again, they squared up and traded head shots, neither man willing to give an inch. (Round: Marciano)

Round 4: The fighters took turns snapping necks in this round, demonstrating their ability to take punishment. (Round: even)

Round 5: The pace began to tell. Marciano shook Dempsey with hooks to the head and the Mauler countered with a right under the heart that got to Rocky. Marciano demonstrated his nonstop punching technique, flailing away with both hands at Dempsey's chest and head. Dempsey concentrated on Marciano's body in the exchange. (Round: even)

Round 6: Dempsey mounted a fierce attack scoring with a left to the body and right to the head, but received a hard left to the mouth and a jolting uppercut by Marciano. Rocky went into a deep crouch, bobbing and weaving, and Dempsey followed suit. Jack whipped both fists to the body and was straightened up by Rocky's right. Dempsey's weaving, jerking motion made Rocky miss and Jack got in a good left before the round ended. (Round: even)

Round 7: Dempsey dominated the 7th with quick, explosive combinations fired from his weaving crouch. A left to the mouth slowed Rocky and a series of lefts and rights to the head jolted him. (Round: Dempsey)
Round 8: Marciano came back strong making Dempsey miss and shocking him with body smashes. Rocky tied Jack up and scored with both hands after the break. Then Jack missed a left over the head and Rocky leaped in with a left and right to the jaw and Dempsey went down. He took a 9 count sitting in the middle of the ring then leaped up and challenged the Brockton Blockbuster toe-to-toe, both men pumping hooks at each other as fast as their arms would move. (Round: Marciano)

Round 9: Rocky dominated the tiring Dempsey almost completely in this round. Dempsey, trying to rush in after a break, received jolting hooks under the heart and a left to the head that drove him back. A left hook to the mouth, a straight right smash, and another vicious left, and Dempsey went down for the 3rd time. Up at 9, he was checked by Referee Goldstein, then flew back at Marciano, giving as much as he received as the round concluded. (Round: Marciano)

Round 10: Rocky landed good combinations to the head and received straight lefts to chin and body. The fighters' faces were lumped and pulpy from the punishment received. Marciano whipped an explosive right to the body and followed with a left to the chin and a brutal right uppercut that put Dempsey down a 4th time. Jack got up more slowly this time and weathered Rocky's attack until the bell. (Round: Marciano)

Round 11: Dempsey found his 2nd wind and took the fight to Marciano, sidestepping Rock's attack and shooting lefts that brought a flow of blood from Marciano's nose. Dempsey ripped another left hook and Marciano went into a bob and weave, blood streaming from his face. The fighters exchanged good body shots and Dempsey landed a slashing left and right at the bell. (Round: even)

Round 12: After having absorbed brutal punishment all through the fight, Dempsey seemed to take charge of the battered Marciano in this round. Marciano, always bulling forward, was staggered with 2 exploding shots to the mouth. A Dempsey hook to the head had Rocky hanging on. Dempsey rushed to the kill, scoring with a left, but Rocky managed to tie him up. Jack broke and swung a left-right-left to Rock's jaw. But the Brockton Blockbuster would not go down. He took everything Jack could throw and survived the round. (Round: Dempsey)

Round 13: Dempsey charged in for the kill but Rocky had revived and met him with a left hook to the head. Dempsey was stunned and on the defensive as Rocky whipped a flashing left and right to the mouth. Dempsey threw a left hook but Marciano countered with a head-rattling right to the point of the chin and Dempsey went down again. After a mandatory 8 count, Jack rose to his feet and tried to fight back but Marciano was too strong, too determined. The Rock charged like a wild animal, smashing body blows and straightening Dempsey up with rights. Dempsey had to fight furiously to ward off the charging Rocky's flurry of rights and lefts to the head. Rocky continued to batter through Dempsey's defenses. Another buzz saw of brutal combinations to the head and jaw put the Manassa Mauler down and out.

Winner: Marciano, by a KO at 2:28 of the 13th round. Dempsey had been floored 6 times, Marciano none.

Here's all you need to know about computer fights. In September of 1970, they used the same computer that produced the Marciano-Ali fight and the others that were reported on the radio, to pick the winner of the Joe Frazier vs. Bob Foster heavyweight title fight in November of 1970. The computer picked Foster to stop Frazier in the sixth round. Since Frazier knocked Foster out in the second round, the computer could not have been more wrong. In fact, Frazier hit Foster so hard that he injured his ankle while he was going down.

I was just reporting what the computer said. I don't necessarily agree with it.

[BoxBuzz]

Ray, anyone paying attention would have known that......sad that a good reporter must make such a disclaimer....and yet I understand.

[yancey]

There are just too many variables for a computer to be effective.

With that said, here is a picture of the actual computer that had Foster KO'ing Joe Frazier.

I think I'll pass on the Think-A-Tron.

[yancey]

I'll take Dempsey over the Rock in a brutal affair.

[Techno89]

I think the Rock would win this brutal match with a late KO

[Ezzard]

Dempsey.

I think he beats all the sluggers and swarmers until the giants arrived at which point size does become a factor.

[beaujack]

Dempsey.

I think he beats all the sluggers and swarmers until the giants arrived at which point size does become a factor.

E, I partly disagree. What made the prime Jack Dempsey so unusual was he combined great strength for his lean weight,and his very quick movements, akin to a welterweight's speed. He THRIVED on much bigger men such as Carl Morris, Fred Fulton, Jess Willard,who were big strong heavyweights
of their times. He utterly annihilated them with his handspeed and left-hook, along with an innate toughness to conquer at all costs. Nat Fleischer founder of the Ring always DECLARED that a Dempsey and Louis , were BIG enough to ko any fighter, no matter how big. What nature gives in weight, it takes away in quickness and dexterity.
P.S. Dempsey today could have weighed 215-20 pounds if Jack Kearns wished it. He had from the waist up a large frame atop a small waist. But in Dempsey's time Heavyweights trained down to
as little weight as possible. Would Dempsey or Joe Louis have been better,had they been heavier...
HELL NO...The old adage still holds true. All things considered, " SPEED KILLS ".

[Goodnight, Irene]

I think Dempsey and Louis could handle even very good big men (the giants they each conquered werent on the level of a Bowe or Lewis, but both guys absolutely clobbered the big men they did face with room to spare --- Fulton, Willard, Firpo, Carnera, Baer, Simon), and Id pick each of them, albeit with a degree of trepidation, to beat Bowe and Lewis --- who are probably the largest of the arguably GREAT Heavies.

Marciano is a different story. He wasnt nearly as talented as either of those two, and was a good sight more beatable (despite his record).