Best Competition Coming Up

[Ambling Alp]

In the last couple of decades it has become apparent that many fighters do go up against the best competition on their way up. Thought it would be interesting to dig into this further.

What fighters who began their pro careers in 1960 or later fought the best competition before getting a title shot? (We will say WBC, WBA, WBO, or a IBF title shot)

Here are those that have the best cases that I come up with.

Jimmy Ellis
Bob Foster
Marvin Hagler
Ray Leonard
Mathew Saad Muhammad
Earnie Shavers
Michael Spinks

Who of is missing that is in the same class as these guys? Anyone standout as facing the best?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Jimmy McClarnin

[orbtastic]

tommy loughran
archie moore
gene tunney
joe louis
chalky wright
lloyd marshall

[Goodnight, Irene]

He asked for boxers who began in 1960 or later, guys.

Evander Holyfield.

[Ezzard]

While he got a title shot early, so doesn't qualify... It's worth mentioning a fave opf mine, Jeff Fenech. he was fighting top fighters from the very, very early days. But he already had a title.

[Goodnight, Irene]

While he got a title shot early, so doesn't qualify... It's worth mentioning a fave opf mine, Jeff Fenech. he was fighting top fighters from the very, very early days. But he already had a title.

Much as he repulses me, I have to give it to the guy for how much he packed into a career comprising so few fights.

[Ezzard]

While he got a title shot early, so doesn't qualify... It's worth mentioning a fave opf mine, Jeff Fenech. he was fighting top fighters from the very, very early days. But he already had a title.

Much as he repulses me, I have to give it to the guy for how much he packed into a career comprising so few fights.

Repulses? Has he done something I am not aware of?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Nothing your average boxer isnt guilty of, I suppose. Theft, thuggery (which I have witnessed first-hand), and severe obnoxiousness in the local media.

Not exactly a murderer or rapist, but he has that Larry Holmes air of supreme douchery.

[theone]

On paper Tsyzu seemed thrown to the wolves almost from the start.

[Controversial]

Oscar De Le Hoya must be worth a shout. Fought for the WBO world title in his 12th fight, his 11 previous opponents had winning records and were all more experienced than him, no 0-0-0 opponents or 0-10 losers. Then pretty much every fight after his 12th was a world title of some sort or against a top ranked fighter. He certainly wasn't fed a string of no hopers or losers, very solid resume.

[Goodnight, Irene]

De La Hoya and Tszyu are both good shouts.

Tszyu never gets credit in this category. His first ten or twelve bouts, the competition is gob-smacking...and the guy rose to every occasion. Gotta hand it to him.

[BoxBuzz]

It's shocking to me how he let the Hatton fight become his swan song. I really liked Kostya, and consider his loss to Vince Phillips a fluke. And his loss to Ricky seemed a bit "framed" by the Ref. I don't think he quit in the ring that night, but simply listened to his corner. He did fight the best and I don't think he ever sidestepped anyone.

[BoxBuzz]

Nothing your average boxer isnt guilty of, I suppose. Theft, thuggery (which I have witnessed first-hand), and severe obnoxiousness in the local media.

Not exactly a murderer or rapist, but he has that Larry Holmes air of supreme douchery.

"first hand" is an intriguing and compelling statement. Care to elaborate?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I was there back in 2002 (I had just turned 18) when Fenech's apparent mate got into a fist fight at a well-known watering hole in Sydney's south. Fenech's behaviour was appalling --- he goaded one guy before and after the fight broke out, and it wasnt an angry thing --- he was laughing, having a good time. I would have thought HE was 18. When the melee was over CLEARLY, Fenech plain sucker-punched an-already wounded patron, and then, as if suddenly aware of his profile, scattered with his entourage.

The guy is every inch a typical thug. He showed his class feeding hopelessly over-matched local boys (like Shannon Taylor) to world-class rivals, risking their careers for a quick financial turn many times during the 90's and 00's, too.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's shocking to me how he let the Hatton fight become his swan song. I really liked Kostya, and consider his loss to Vince Phillips a fluke. And his loss to Ricky seemed a bit "framed" by the Ref. I don't think he quit in the ring that night, but simply listened to his corner. He did fight the best and I don't think he ever sidestepped anyone.

Your post got me flipping through Tszyu's (first) biography...

"I tried everything to stop him coming forward...everything to put him down. It was a real bar-room brawl. I wanted to continue, but Johnny Lewis took the decision out of my hands. I still dont know how I lost, but I lost to a better man." - Tszyu on the Hatton bout.

For context, Tszyu is completely in denial in this book about the Phillips loss (every excuse in the book), yet totally magnanimous with this bout, so thats interesting. Tszyu makes no mention of furthering his career hereafter.

[BoxBuzz]

Interesting, but somewhat sensibly "political" I suppose. Many give him a pass on the Hatton fight as being a bit "biased" so perhaps he feels he can afford the magnanimous attitude. Whereas few people defend his KO at the hands of Vince, so he has no one "carrying his water" for him on that one, so he protests.

I'm not knockin' him, I think he's a genuine first class act, but like the rest of us he's human.

[elmersalsa]

Sugar Ray Leonard comes to mind. His competition coming up was very good.
The same for Oscar De La Hoya. His competition, coming up, was not like Leonard's, but was good. No doubt about it.

I cannot think right now of other fighters. I gotta see their records, first.

[Ambling Alp]

Fenech really is not a good example. He didn't fight really anyone of note before he got his title shot. (He did fight some quality opponets early in career, but he had already got a title shot.)
De La hoya fought a few capable journeyman, but really nothing special.
Tszyu pre-title days are a little more impressive. He fought some name opponents. Though they were past it, not all were completely shot. Certainly some risk for such an inexperienced fighter.

There has got to be some people we are missing. Didn't anyone in the 1980s or 1990s fight a few contenders before getting a title shot?

[dempseyfire]

I think Jimmy Ellis wins this hands down.

[scallum]

I'm not sure about b4 winning a title but Tommy Loughran had to go against sum insane level of comp b4 he even turned 21 including Tunney and Greb. I doubt any fighter in the history of the sport had done as much b4 the age of 21. Sorry did not notice he asked from certain time period.

[elmersalsa]

Fenech really is not a good example. He didn't fight really anyone of note before he got his title shot. (He did fight some quality opponets early in career, but he had already got a title shot.)
De La hoya fought a few capable journeyman, but really nothing special.
Tszyu pre-title days are a little more impressive. He fought some name opponents. Though they were past it, not all were completely shot. Certainly some risk for such an inexperienced fighter.

There has got to be some people we are missing. Didn't anyone in the 1980s or 1990s fight a few contenders before getting a title shot?

You are gonna have a big argument with GI about that statement, Alp.

[Ambling Alp]

Here is a brief summary of who some of these guys took on before they ever got a title shot:

Jimmy Ellis-Started his career as a middleweight, took on Holly Mims (twice) Henry Hank, Rubin Carter,Don Fullmer,George Benton, then Leotis Martin and Oscar Bonavena as a heavyweight.)

Earnie Shavers-Fought a lot of tomato cans, but also took on Jimmy young (twice)Jimmy Ellis,Jerry Quarry and Ron Lyle. Also fringe contenders Henry Clark, Roy Williams and Howard Smith.

Bob Foster- Took on 7 ranked contenders. Doug Jones, Maura Mina, Ernie Terrell, Henry Hank, Zora Folley, Andres Selpa, and Eddie Cotton.

Marvin Hagler- Took on 4 ranked Contenders Bobby Watts, Wille Monroe, Mike Colbert, Benny Briscoe. Also took on Sugar Ray Seales 3 times, well as Eugene Hart.

Ray Leonard-Took on 8 contenders before getting a title shot. Floyd Maweather Sr. Randy Sheilds, Armando Muniz,Johnny Gant, Adolfo Viruet, Tony Chiaverni, Pete RanzanyAndy Price. Also fought middleweight fringe contder Marcus Geraldo while still only a welterweight.

Matthew Saad Muhammad- Took on 3 ranked contenders. Richie Kates, Marvin Johnson, and Yaqui Lopez. Also took on 3 promising fighters twice each-Mate Parlov and Marvin Camel.

Michael Spinks- Fought several tomato cans. however, did take on 3 very solid contdenrs, Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez, and Murray Sutherland.

Hard to even fathom a recent fighter risking his all important undefeated record against anything close to this competition before getting a WBS title shot.

I still am not sure who has taken on the best. Any more thoughts?

[raylawpc]

Joe Louis - fought four former world heavyweight champions before his title shot.

[Ambling Alp]

Yeah, I was just doing this from 1960 to the present. Louis and many others from way back fought a lot of good competition before getting a title shot. I was just trying to pinpoint when this stopped being very common. Looks like there were still some guys fighting good competition in the 1960s and 1970s, but since then this has become very rare.
Probably with 4 titles to win, if you bide your time fighting weak competition you will eventuually get a WBS title shot. not worth the risk fighting someone good.

[orbtastic]

Probably co-incided with the era of padded/protected records and proliferation of titles.