Larry Holmes :Does he make the top five ??

[Quixall]

Does Larry Holmes make it into your top five heavyweights of all time list ?

Larry is often viewed as a fighter who came late to the heavyweight party of the mid 70's that included Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton, rising to prominence when the sun was setting on that famous era of heavyweight boxing. Some never forgave him for beating down on an ailing Muhammad Ali and the conspiracy theorists have a field day when it comes to the First fight with Spinks bringing him a defeat that prevented Holmes from equalling Marciano's record. Now that Holmes has retired people are begining to look at Larry's career in a more considered and objective light.

Homes was one of the longest reigning heavyweight champions (7.5 years) and in his time fought some great fights and met with some tough opposition. Fighting Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers twice, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Tim Witherspoon and Gerry Cooney. After his defeats to Spinks and then a short comeback ending in defeat to Tyson, Holmes went onto to fight until he was 52 years of age, beating Ray Mercer and giving tough fights to Holyfield and McCall. Larry had one of the best jabs in boxing, moved well for a big guy, was technically very good and had great stamina and courage aswell.

How do you rate Larry Holmes ? Does he make your top five heavyweight list ?

[Newport Daz]

I can't see how he can't, infact on a lot of sites I've seen him ranked as high as 2 or 3. Phenomenal jab, good power and incredible recouperative powers. Larry is easily one of the greatest This sort of question is highly subjective, but i'd be surprised if there were more than a handful that don't rate him top 5.

[Yes We Can]

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Frazier
4. Foreman
5. Holmes
6. Holyfield
7. Dempsey
8. Marciano
9. Lewis
10. Liston

[palooka]

I think he does make the top 5; he was a very good fighter, a very good champion and had guts, knowhow and ring generalship. There are more than 5 other champs that could have beaten him in his prime though. Prime Holmes v prime Holyfield would've been mint.

[Ketchel]

I think he does make the top 5; he was a very good fighter, a very good champion and had guts, knowhow and ring generalship. There are more than 5 other champs that could have beaten him in his prime though. Prime Holmes v prime Holyfield would've been mint.

I adore Holyfield but prime for prime Holyfield V Holmes for me ends with a wide points decision to Holmes. My god an ancient Larry gave Evander problems.

[peter1948]

Larry Holmes a top 5 heavyweight? absolutely yes. Unfortunately came just after Ali and did not get the recognition he deserved. Never ducked anyone and always gave a good show of himself, a terrific left jab and all round boxing ability. One of the all time greats for a dead cert, unfortunately did what others have done before him and carried on just that little bit too long

[Quixall]

Larry Holmes a top 5 heavyweight? absolutely yes. Unfortunately came just after Ali and did not get the recognition he deserved. Never ducked anyone and always gave a good show of himself, a terrific left jab and all round boxing ability. One of the all time greats for a dead cert, unfortunately did what others have done before him and carried on just that little bit too long

I often wonder if somone carrying on too long affects there legacy. In the case of Holmes, his career effectively ended after the second fight with Spinks. He then fought Tyson a few years later and then drifted into different fights there after. I tend to judge Holmes up to that second fight with Spinks, i mainly disregard the rest, though it's possible to include the Tyson fight as part of his career.

[Bricks]

I can't see how he can't, infact on a lot of sites I've seen him ranked as high as 2 or 3. Phenomenal jab, good power and incredible recouperative powers. Larry is easily one of the greatest This sort of question is highly subjective, but i'd be surprised if there were more than a handful that don't rate him top 5.

I cant make him top 5... everything he did well I feel Clay/Ali did better...Frazier would have beaten him, so would Louis and Ali...I dont see him beating prime Holyfield..I think Liston would have busted him up....and more controversial to some on here I see Foreman and Dempsey both brutalising him.... 88 Tyson would have always beaten him too...ironically i feel the slightly older heavier Holmes of 83/84 would have had the best chance of beating 88 Tyson as he had more propensity to hold and lean on his man than and that would frustrate Tyson but Holmes is way down the top ten for me.....others rate him very highly ...its all good

In Larry favour he would beat Marciano,Lewis and the Klitchkos imo.

[warmachine]

definitely have him top 5, he was so underated.

[Deserter]

Holmes is top three every day of the week, maybe top one. Holmes, Ali and Lewis are the top 3 for me, the order varies depending on my mood.

Great minds etc.

I'm probably with you guys, though I feel clearly it's Ali at number one, then Holmes followed by Lewis for me. Haven't really seen anything of Louis to be able to comment and Lewis is largely in there based on size in that I just can't see how smaller heavies such as Frazier could have coped with a prime Lewis.
However, Frazier vs Holyfield is one hypothetical match-up that would have me salivating...

[Karl Jade]

Has to be behind Ali, Louis and Lewis. Probably 5 or 6 for me.

[palooka]

Would Joe Louis even be a modern heavyweight? Would he be a cruiser?

[milpool]

In his pomp he was definitely top 5. However do we think that too many people remember him for his losses later on in his career along with his circus fight against Butterbean?

[frankgreaves]

Not to be critical of any ones opinions but how the hell can anyone put Sonny Liston above Larry Holmes or Mike Tyson?? It's truly amazing the different things that people see in certain boxers!!

[palooka]

Hello Frank, hope you're gearing up for the weekend. Hope your Johnny's alright.

I think that some see Holmes would have trouble with Listons' jab which was very heavy; Holmes had a fantastic jab but others who could jab with him did pretty well.

I feel that people see how Tyson could be intimidated and out bullied and Liston was a very mean man and scared some very tough men (in a tough era).

If Liston hadn't have run into Cassius Clay he'd have ruled the roost for far longer and had a much better ledger.

[frankgreaves]

Hello Frank, hope you're gearing up for the weekend. Hope your Johnny's alright.

I think that some see Holmes would have trouble with Listons' jab which was very heavy; Holmes had a fantastic jab but others who could jab with him did pretty well.

I feel that people see how Tyson could be intimidated and out bullied and Liston was a very mean man and scared some very tough men (in a tough era).

If Liston hadn't have run into Cassius Clay he'd have ruled the roost for far longer and had a much better ledger.

Hello mate, yeah he's good thanks, all done at the gym for the week!! Back on it Monday! Got Dan Naylor out next week so it's all go mate!

As I said mate, it's all opinions but for me Holmes better in every department than Liston, better legs, better skills, better stamina, better brain and most of all he did achieve far more than Liston did, the proof of the pudding and all that!! As for Liston intimidating a young Tyson, nah, not for me!! But all due respect, the different opinions is what makes this beautiful sport what it is.

[palooka]

Best of luck for next week

The thing with the young Tyson is (for me) he'd had his confidence built so well with by his team but the top contenders/champions were not dominant or frightening men. When things did get tough or the other man weren't scared to death he was only half the fighter. Buster Douglas jabbed him to death; Liston was pretty similar and wouldn't have took any shit in the build up.

[Datsue]

Holmes is top three every day of the week, maybe top one. Holmes, Ali and Lewis are the top 3 for me, the order varies depending on my mood.

Great minds etc.

Yup. This.

Would Joe Louis even be a modern heavyweight? Would he be a cruiser?

He was about six-two & a good fifteen stone; if Haye can go twelve rounds with (& occasionally scare the living shite out of) Wladdy, I see no reason to believe that Joe Louis could not achieve a similar result.

Louis versus Fatboy Povetkin (fer instance) would've been a thing of beauty. If you like seeing fat Russians getting KO'd, that is.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Don't know about top 5 for certain, but he is there or there abouts IMO.

[Bricks]

Holmes is top three every day of the week, maybe top one. Holmes, Ali and Lewis are the top 3 for me, the order varies depending on my mood.

Great minds etc.

I'm probably with you guys, though I feel clearly it's Ali at number one, then Holmes followed by Lewis for me. Haven't really seen anything of Louis to be able to comment and Lewis is largely in there based on size in that I just can't see how smaller heavies such as Frazier could have coped with a prime Lewis.
However, Frazier vs Holyfield is one hypothetical match-up that would have me salivating...

Agree with you on Holyfieldv Frazier
That said I dont think Lewis's size would be any problem for smokin joe Frazier...its still my opinion the HW division used to have incrediblly talented athletec specimens and these tended to peak out at 200-225 lbs. Over that and a lot of HWs are just less athletic fat versons of themselves...or alternatively musclebound big men with talent but a serious loss of speed.

Ironically the young Lewis at 220-225 was one of the last great black athletic HW's of which there once were so many

the heavier bigger Lewis punched harder but had a serious loss of speed and relied on a lot of illegal tactics such as leaning down and holding on smaller guys like the shot to shreds Tyson. His power kept a tough shorter puncher like Tua who once had great stamina and will honest......but cmon a fat Tua heck even a in shape Tua should never be compared to smokin Joe Frazier.....Joe would have broken up Lewis's body on the inside and Lewis jab would have missed all night....the uppercut would have been a big threat, but I think Lewis is right there to be knocked out by a Frazier left hook.....so many people on here overrate Lewis and forget he was knocked cold by all time greats like Rahman and Mccall....Joe would knock him out and take his heart away.

I respect your difference of opinion deserter and my above comments are just my opinion, just as your opinion is yours. I do recall Ring Magazine when comparing Lewis in 2002 with the all time greats also saw Joe beating Lewis.

Obviously Lewis would try and do a Foreman but he was no Foreman...his chin would let him down.

I love Lennox Lewis I have him right up there in the top ten around 7 or 8....I loved the way he took out Grant, Botha and Klitchko to go out on a high...but he wasnt in the league of Holmes,Frazier or Liston.

[frankgreaves]

Great minds etc.

I'm probably with you guys, though I feel clearly it's Ali at number one, then Holmes followed by Lewis for me. Haven't really seen anything of Louis to be able to comment and Lewis is largely in there based on size in that I just can't see how smaller heavies such as Frazier could have coped with a prime Lewis.
However, Frazier vs Holyfield is one hypothetical match-up that would have me salivating...

Agree with you on Holyfieldv Frazier
That said I dont think Lewis's size would be any problem for smokin joe Frazier...its still my opinion the HW division used to have incrediblly talented athletec specimens and these tended to peak out at 200-225 lbs. Over that and a lot of HWs are just less athletic fat versons of themselves...or alternatively musclebound big men with talent but a serious loss of speed.

Ironically the young Lewis at 220-225 was one of the last great black athletic HW's of which there once were so many

the heavier bigger Lewis punched harder but had a serious loss of speed and relied on a lot of illegal tactics such as leaning down and holding on smaller guys like the shot to shreds Tyson. His power kept a tough shorter puncher like Tua who once had great stamina and will honest......but cmon a fat Tua heck even a in shape Tua should never be compared to smokin Joe Frazier.....Joe would have broken up Lewis's body on the inside and Lewis jab would have missed all night....the uppercut would have been a big threat, but I think Lewis is right there to be knocked out by a Frazier left hook.....so many people on here overrate Lewis and forget he was knocked cold by all time greats like Rahman and Mccall....Joe would knock him out and take his heart away.

I respect your difference of opinion deserter and my above comments are just my opinion, just as your opinion is yours. I do recall Ring Magazine when comparing Lewis in 2002 with the all time greats also saw Joe beating Lewis.

Obviously Lewis would try and do a Foreman but he was no Foreman...his chin would let him down.

I love Lennox Lewis I have him right up there in the top ten around 7 or 8....I loved the way he took out Grant, Botha and Klitchko to go out on a high...but he wasnt in the league of Holmes,Frazier or Liston.

LISTON!! I just don't get that!! Sounds like I've a downer on Liston which I haven't btw, but Lewis beats Liston all day long!!

[keithmoonhangover]

Louis
Ali
Johnson
Dempsey
Holmes

[yiddo14]

Holmes is top three every day of the week, maybe top one. Holmes, Ali and Lewis are the top 3 for me, the order varies depending on my mood.

I tend to agree, hard to leave the Bomber out though, he needs to be at this party.

[rob h]

I've never sat and thought about a list. That said Holmes could have beaten anybody is his day. I would put him behind Ali and Lewis. I could see his beating anybody else though with maybe the exception of the young Foreman.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Yeah, Lewis, Holmes, Ali top 3

I cant argue with that at all

The 4 and 5 spots are much trickier.



Hmmm,


I'll probably go with Viv Richards at 4 with Javed Miandad at 5.

Hang on, i got confused with another list i was making.


Oh well