Ken Norton vs. Evander Holyfield prime vs. prime

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 14 Aug 2005, 21:34

Who would win this interesting fight for some reasons these fighters seem similar to me.

1.They both seem to have got cheated by the man who was considered the best fighter of their times (Lewis and Ali)

2. Both had great physiques.

3. Holyfield would somtimes use that weird defense.(the crisscrossed arms).

4. Neither were really one punch knockout artists but both had power.

5. They both had very good chins.

All IMO.

but who wins?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Aug 2005, 23:07

holyfield didnt get cheated against lewis, lewis got cheated against holyfield. lennox clearly won both fights.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Aug 2005, 23:07

I would go with Norton close decision

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 14 Aug 2005, 23:18

BB, there are many, including myself, who feel Holyfield would have gotten the decision in the rematch if not for the first fight.

On this topic, I pick Norton in a close close fight. Slightly better stamina and more power. They're pretty much equal in the other departments.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Aug 2005, 23:24

dempseyfire speak for urself on the first fight, cause most ring experts and most people that saw the 1st fight agree lennox lewis clearly won. so if u though holyfield deserved a draw in the 1st fight, then u must have had about 20 beers in u. thats why that 1st fight was one of the most controversial decisions of all time. even one of the jkudges that scored it even admiitted he made a mistake and that lewis won.

the 2nd fight, i still thought lewis won and ill agree with u that a lot of people thought this was much closer and could have gone either way.

but first fight, no question who won : lennox lewis.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 15 Aug 2005, 00:05

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:dempseyfire speak for urself on the first fight, cause most ring experts and most people that saw the 1st fight agree lennox lewis clearly won. so if u though holyfield deserved a draw in the 1st fight, then u must have had about 20 beers in u. thats why that 1st fight was one of the most controversial decisions of all time. even one of the jkudges that scored it even admiitted he made a mistake and that lewis won.

the 2nd fight, i still thought lewis won and ill agree with u that a lot of people thought this was much closer and could have gone either way.

but first fight, no question who won : lennox lewis.

I hear pretty much 50/50 on Lewis and Holyfield.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 15 Aug 2005, 01:18

on lewis-holyfield 1????? 50/50????? are u sure?? cause i certianly dont. most tend to agee lewis won the first fight.

the 2nd fight i believe was 50/50.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 15 Aug 2005, 04:20

this would be a great match up. I cans ee these two going for a 3 fight series. I'd give the edge to Holyfield.

The Boxing Enthusiast · Post by **The Boxing Enthusiast** » 15 Aug 2005, 12:15

GREAT fight. I pick Holyfield by decision, only because of his heart. Skills were the same. Physiques were similar. But Holyfield's heart should be cased in platinum when he dies.

IMO,
TBE

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 15 Aug 2005, 14:24

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:on lewis-holyfield 1????? 50/50????? are u sure?? cause i certianly dont. most tend to agee lewis won the first fight.

the 2nd fight i believe was 50/50.

You mis-read my post. I said the REMATCH. I was saying people felt inclined to give Lennox the benefit of doubt in rounds in their rematch b/c they felt sorry he'd been robbed in the 1st match.

BE- I agree Holyfield's heart is tremondous but watch Holmes-Norton . . .that's just as much heart as Evander ever displayed. Both were warriors.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 15 Aug 2005, 18:38

Holyfield won the second fight Vs Lennox (without a doubt!) - The fact is even Lennox's own trainer Manny Stewert (here in Detroit) has said as much in a number of interviews - He felt the DEC could have went to Holyfield (that says ALL that needs to be said......when Lennox's OWN trainer has said that)

Irregardless of Manny - The fact is Holyfield won the second fight by something like 80% of those that were judging at ringside (the TV crews seemed way to pro Lennox...considering the outcome of the first fight) So those watching from TV got a slanted account to some degree -

As for Holyfield Vs Norton - Would have been a hell of a fight - I see Holyfield by Maj or UNI Dec - Would have been a good one!

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 15 Aug 2005, 18:55

meade95 wrote:Holyfield won the second fight Vs Lennox (without a doubt!) - The fact is even Lennox's own trainer Manny Stewert (here in Detroit) has said as much in a number of interviews - He felt the DEC could have went to Holyfield (that says ALL that needs to be said......when Lennox's OWN trainer has said that)

Irregardless of Manny - The fact is Holyfield won the second fight by something like 80% of those that were judging at ringside (the TV crews seemed way to pro Lennox...considering the outcome of the first fight) So those watching from TV got a slanted account to some degree -

As for Holyfield Vs Norton - Would have been a hell of a fight - I see Holyfield by Maj or UNI Dec - Would have been a good one!

I remember the HBO commentary for Lewis-Holyfield 11 was awful . . Lampley and Mercent were continually exhorting Lewis punches that clearly wern't landing cleanly or at all. They were correct when stating that the 37 yr old Holyfield wasn't doing too much offensively (as this was a blown up 185 lber who had been through gruelling wars for the past 15 years) but only Foreman noted Holyfield's effective punching and ring generalship. It was a close fight but Lewis did not win, close basically due to Holyfield's inability to mount a sustained offense. Looking at that film back to back with Holyfield-Foreman or Holyfield-Dokes shows you what a massacre it would have been if Lennox had faced a prime Evander.
A Holyfield KO victory before the 6th round

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 15 Aug 2005, 20:28

I think Norton KOs Holyfield late. Holyfield would not be able to punch through that crab defense from a distance so he would brawl with Norton, Norton would make the silent agreement to brawl, and he would wear down Holyfield and win on a KO in the 13th round. Norton was the natural heavy, while Holyfield built up to it using weights and fitness training. Norton was naturally stronger and would wear Holyfield down.

I think Holyfield's heart is overestimated because even though it was great, people tend to underrate every other boxer relative to Holyfield. Dempseyfire was on the money when he talked about Norton's courage against Holmes.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Aug 2005, 21:08

And Norton Lost to Holmes......With that said I have to think about this one. I can never figure Norton in these theoretical things. I'm the only one I know that thinks Norton would give Frazier all he could handle.

But this is a style thing and I'm not sure that Holy couldnt do abetter job in figuring out Ken's defence. Holy seemed to bring what was needed to solve these riddles for the most part.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 16 Aug 2005, 08:41

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:on lewis-holyfield 1????? 50/50????? are u sure?? cause i certianly dont. most tend to agee lewis won the first fight.

the 2nd fight i believe was 50/50.

Maybe it was a mistake, I was too young when I saw the fight to remember. But I thought people felt Holyfield got cheated.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Aug 2005, 09:51

Well there was than lady judge who never changed her mind who should never be allowed to judge again. And then the guy from Britain who admitted he blew it royally. He later indicated he though Lewis one. To bad they wouldnt except his ammended card late on that one.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 19 Aug 2005, 15:40

But who wins it?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Aug 2005, 16:12

I'm going with Holyfield after long consideration. No Knockout, close fight but he outhustles him. For as much heart as they both had it was Holy who seemed to "think" smarter in the ring. I think he would have solved the puzzle during the fight. He would have figured a way to "look" like he was the winner in a close one.

Norton never mastered the ability to exude confidence, and I think it cost him points on a lot of scorecards. He could do more damage than he would be given credit for by fans and judges. Strange as this sounds and maybe Ali did it best, you need to "sell" your act to the judges. Holy knew this, in fact Holy may have been second best at this. Kenny never seemed to telegraph that "feeling of victory".

Here is one of those fights where I'd probably want to be the "loser" in terms of actual damage done by fights end. Norton often took the bigger toll out of his opponent even in his losing efforts.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 19 Aug 2005, 23:03

The Boxing Enthusiast wrote:[ Holyfield's heart should be cased in platinum when he dies.