Harry Greb vs Stanely Ketchell

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

what a war this would be at middleweight, who do you guys think wins???

[BoxBuzz]

I'm sure people have gone over and over on this one. I have argued both ways over the years. For the record I can't pick one exactly.
However I would say Greb wins 2 out of 3. Or back in those days and the way Greb liked to "revisit" the scene of the crime I'd say Greb wins 4 out of 6.

[dws]

Greb by decision,better skills and he can't be KO'd,not even by Ketchel.

[tiredoldngrey]

What a fight this would've been; both known for tremendous endurance, speed, ferocity, volume punching, and for having no regard for the rules whatsoever. This one goes the distance, and nobody is outboxing anybody; they would be right there throwing punches and defending against punches for the duration. It is quite possible that weapons would be used. Who would win? Greb from what I've read had handspeed beyond compare while Ketchel was the harder puncher, but Greb was naturally larger. You tell me.

[dnahar32]

The ultimate old school middleweight matchup. No one seems to match up Kid McCoy with Ketchel, or Harry Greb with Tommy Ryan, for example, but everyone looks at Ketchel vs. Greb.

I think Greb would win a close 15rd decision. I agree with tiredoldngrey that no rules could be enforced because these fighters did everything in the book and a lot of stuff never even written in the book. All of this fouling, butting, and mauling would nullify much of the power of these two and they would fight to a close decision. I favor Greb on activity (299 pro fights to 60+ for Ketchel so he probably knew a few more tricks), an iron chin, and the better competition he fought at middleweight and above.

[Seamus]

I'll be the voice of dissent on this one and say that Ketchel wins the decision based on his amazing punching power and stamina (when in shape). Stanley Ketchel was undoubtedly one of the greatest punchers who ever lived, and while he's often dismissed as a brawler, he had little difficulty landing punches on his opponents, and that of course includes the defensive wizard Jack Johnson. What Ketchel nearly accomplished against Jack Johnson is simply mind boggling. Prior to being knocked out in the 12th, Ketchel had not only withstood several of Johnson's best shots, but had also hurt the heavyweight champion as well. In fact, according to one detailed account, Johnson appeared to rise at the count of 9 after Ketchel floored him in the 12th, and was still groggy from the effects moments later as he put Ketchel down for the count, indicating that Jack Johnson, still considered by many to be the greatest heavyweight of all time had come within a second of being knocked out by a man he outweighed by 44 pounds. Was the fight just a fluke ? I think that Ketchel's destruction of Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (who had recently fared well against Johnson in a 6 rounder) in two fights is clear proof that it wasen't.

Greb's record is also amazing, and while he ended up with alot more ring experience than Ketchel, I think the telling factor in a fight like this would be Ketchel's big advantage in punching power. Greb has the advantage in boxing ability, and they're probably even in durability and stamina, but I can't see Greb being able to avoid Ketchel's power punches throughout the fight.

[tiredoldngrey]

Nothing that could happen in this fight would suprise me, and I can't convince myself why one or the other would win, but, if pressed, I think I would have to agree with Seamus and put my money on Ketchel to win by decision.

[BoxBuzz]

The problem here is that they would never fight just one fight. Everybody probably takes home a win or two in this series. Greb seemed to always want to come back for more, especially in the close ones. Did Greb fight anyone that he didnt defeat at least once?

[Ezzard]

Greb would win more often than not. There's no dount that Ketchel would be a handful but I think he loses this one. Greb is too good and must be top 3 at Middle

[Giancarlo]

As Klompy's book is almost out, here's an interesting thread from a while back

[gilgamesh]

Harry by decision for me.

[klompton]

Greb. Of course people will say Im biased but just looking at it logically I have to go with Greb. Those that pick Ketchel will dwell on his punching power. I dont think Ketchel hit harder than a KO Bill Brennan who Greb not only beat easily but wasnt fazed by his power and was actually stronger than. Really, Greb fought tons of guys where he was at a major disadvantage powerwise. If that was what you were banking on to beat Greb you better bring friends with you.