Puerto Ricos greatest ----

[NYDominican]

The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico has produced many, many great professional boxers. I'd say that the very top ones would be Carlos Ortiz, Pedro Montanez, Jose Torres, Wilfredo Gomez, Esteban DeJesus, Wilfred Benitez, Hector Camacho & Felix Trinidad.


Out of this list, I'd say that the Boricuas who have scaled the highest heights in the professional boxing ring are Pedro Montanez, Jose Torres & Felix Trinidad.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Carlos ortiz is the clear #1 here.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Good to see Montanez listed, but agree with Saad Ortiz is king.

Trinidad, like Chavez, gets over-rated by virtue of his popularity.

[King Carlos]

Don't really understand your fixation with Torres, to be honest.

1. Ortiz
2. Gomez
3. Benitez
4. Montanez
5. Trinidad

[Goodnight, Irene]

Escobar deserves a mention.

[witherspoon]

Edwin Rosario should have made the first post of his thread, at least.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Why? He shouldn't be in the top 10.

[witherspoon]

Coz I love the guy.

He's one of my favourite fighters and I put him in this thread. I put him in this thread and you can't do jack about it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Coz I love the guy.

He's one of my favourite fighters and I put him in this thread. I put him in this thread and you can't do jack about it.

Good for you.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Coz I love the guy.

He's one of my favourite fighters and I put him in this thread. I put him in this thread and you can't do jack about it.

Take that, Saad!

[elmersalsa]

Wilfredo Gomez was the best of the Puerto Rican boxers all-time.

[raylawpc]

Carlos ortiz is the clear #1 here.

Ortiz was a great fighter, and a really nice guy, too.

[thunderfromdownunder]

ive always rooted for peurto rican fighters, not sure why i just do.cant believe how many great fighters they have produced

[Borinken25]

Why the hell people leaves out the likes of Jose Basora and Cocoa kid. I rank them both ahead of the more popular Trinidad.

Here is my list:
1. Carlos Ortiz
2. Wilfredo Gomez
3. Wilfredo Benitez
4. Pedro Montanez
5. Jose Basora (has a draw vs prime Robinson and win over Jake LaMotta) Do you seriously believe that Trinidad should rank over him. Basora and Cocoa Kid would have beaten Trinidad, of that I have little doubt.
6. Cocoa Kid
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Esteban De Jesus
9. Edwin Rosario
10. Hector Camacho

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Nice list with the exception of leaving out Escobar. He was certainly greater than Rosario or Camacho. Guys like Cotto & calderon are worth a look at the bottom end as well.

[Datsue]

I am going to open myself up for some flak here: apart from the fact that he's a gutsy crowd-pleaser, I have never really "got" the Miguel Cotto -love.

When I look at him I see a barely (in, like, elite terms) above-averagely skilled, robotic guy with decently heavy hands who was matched with the softest of kid gloves until the first Margarito fight, a massive weight-drainer who would simply be a division bigger than a lot of the guys he was up against (Judah, Torres, Pinto, Corley). He had a nice body attack, a decent left hook, a suspect chin & no right hand whatsoever.

When he was a lightwelter Hatton was fighting Tszyu. Cotto was getting wobbled all over the place by DeMarcus Corley. His current "renaissance" also strikes me as something of a sham, as if beating Yuri Foreman & the ambulatory carcasses of Mayorga & Margarito were anything more than beautiful PR-pieces.

I value his bravery, his commitment to the attack (as long as he physically outmatched someone, that is) & note his honed use of "professional" fouls (the body attack that landed mostly in the groin, delivered in combination amongst legitimate punches; just a personal peccadillo but it always makes me want to see someone just elbow anyone who fights that way. It annoys me unduly). Comes across well in interviews & stuff. Nice tatts.

But on a list of greatest Puerto Ricans ever? Nah, sorry. Looking at the bottom half of Borinken's list, I cannot see a case for him being greater than DeJesus (a far, far finer technical boxer with better wins, & also technique-wise a much better puncher), Trinidad (over-rated by some but FFS Trinidad legitimately destroyed unbeaten fighters of a similar calibre & size to himself), Edwin Rosario (again, a far better technical boxer -- although like Cotto, somewhat mechanical -- & a much better puncher, who defeated a much higher calibre of fighter) & Hector Camacho (who could've been far greater had he not been such a dickhead).

I cannot help but think a large amount of Cotto's high regard is based on the lad's personality & fighting style. Which is nice, but not really what I rate guys on, in an all-time sense.

EDIT: I will say beating a mid-thirties Shane Mosley is impressive. In the same way that Morrison & Briggs got the better of Foreman, & that was impressive too, but doesn't really strike me as what would happen were they to meet anywhere near their respective primes.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't see where he was handled with kid gloves. He fought guys like Bailey & Torres. I wouldn't place him ahead of Dejesus, but a case can made for him over Rosario or Camacho. The Mosley win you mentioned is better than any either of them had.

[King Carlos]

Nice list with the exception of leaving out Escobar. He was certainly greater than Rosario or Camacho. Guys like Cotto & calderon are worth a look at the bottom end as well.

Calderon might make the bottom end of a top 20.

Also, to the poster of that most recent list, are we considering half-breeds in these rankings? Cocoa Kid was half American, half Rican. Would that mean that the list of greatest Mexicans would allow for Mexican-Americans?

And Basora may well rank ahead of Trinidad, come to think of it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Nice list with the exception of leaving out Escobar. He was certainly greater than Rosario or Camacho. Guys like Cotto & calderon are worth a look at the bottom end as well.

Calderon might make the bottom end of a top 20.

Also, to the poster of that most recent list, are we considering half-breeds in these rankings? Cocoa Kid was half American, half Rican. Would that mean that the list of greatest Mexicans would allow for Mexican-Americans?

And Basora may well rank ahead of Trinidad, come to think of it.

I get your point, there are a lot of iffy nationality placements. Benitez was born in NY.

[Counter-puncher]

The Mosley win you mentioned is better than any either of them had.

i rewatched that the other night. excellent, maybe slightly under-rated fight, and the Shane who beat Oscar hands Cotto his ass, quite badly IMO. nonetheless a better win than Rosario managed, I'd agree. I'm wondering if i can think of a better win for Camacho and offhand I can't.

i think this is one of those where even if Cotto breaks into a PR top 10 (i don't think he does, quite), the gulf between say numbers 1-5 and the fighters thereafter is quite a big one, so whether he's top 10 or not is somewhat irrelevant next to the fact he's nowhere near the top 4-5. if that makes sense.

dats- there's a disconnect between Cotto's popularity, and his 'greatness' (or failure to quite hit those heaights), IMO, which is I think where you're coming from. plus his in-ring skills weren't the kind that you get manlove for

edit: I cannot help but think a large amount of Cotto's high regard is based on the lad's personality & fighting style. Which is nice, but not really what I rate guys on, in an all-time sense.

yeah, that kind of thing.

[Datsue]

I don't see where he was handled with kid gloves. He fought guys like Bailey & Torres. I wouldn't place him ahead of Dejesus, but a case can made for him over Rosario or Camacho. The Mosley win you mentioned is better than any either of them had.

Yeah, I can see why my opinion is not popular, but to me he's always been a guy I watched & thought: "Uh-huh. So he's bigger & stronger than the dude in front of him. So what? He probably outweighs them by ten pounds" & never really got too impressed by him 7-5'ing an aged Mosley.

So maybe I just don't like him, & liked Rosario. Sue me.

[Datsue]

dats- there's a disconnect between Cotto's popularity, and his 'greatness' (or failure to quite hit those heaights), IMO, which is I think where you're coming from. plus his in-ring
skills weren't the kind that you get manlove for

Yep, exactly that. It's irrational, but then so is making up Top Ten lists of fighters who never fought each other & arguing all day on the Interwebs about whether or not a dude is number 7 or number 12, soin the context of this discussion I stand by my dislike of the fella.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I am going to open myself up for some flak here: apart from the fact that he's a gutsy crowd-pleaser, I have never really "got" the Miguel Cotto -love.

When I look at him I see a barely (in, like, elite terms) above-averagely skilled, robotic guy with decently heavy hands who was matched with the softest of kid gloves until the first Margarito fight, a massive weight-drainer who would simply be a division bigger than a lot of the guys he was up against (Judah, Torres, Pinto, Corley). He had a nice body attack, a decent left hook, a suspect chin & no right hand whatsoever.

When he was a lightwelter Hatton was fighting Tszyu. Cotto was getting wobbled all over the place by DeMarcus Corley. His current "renaissance" also strikes me as something of a sham, as if beating Yuri Foreman & the ambulatory carcasses of Mayorga & Margarito were anything more than beautiful PR-pieces.

I value his bravery, his commitment to the attack (as long as he physically outmatched someone, that is) & note his honed use of "professional" fouls (the body attack that landed mostly in the groin, delivered in combination amongst legitimate punches; just a personal peccadillo but it always makes me want to see someone just elbow anyone who fights that way. It annoys me unduly). Comes across well in interviews & stuff. Nice tatts.

But on a list of greatest Puerto Ricans ever? Nah, sorry. Looking at the bottom half of Borinken's list, I cannot see a case for him being greater than DeJesus (a far, far finer technical boxer with better wins, & also technique-wise a much better puncher), Trinidad (over-rated by some but FFS Trinidad legitimately destroyed unbeaten fighters of a similar calibre & size to himself), Edwin Rosario (again, a far better technical boxer -- although like Cotto, somewhat mechanical -- & a much better puncher, who defeated a much higher calibre of fighter) & Hector Camacho (who could've been far greater had he not been such a dickhead).

I cannot help but think a large amount of Cotto's high regard is based on the lad's personality & fighting style. Which is nice, but not really what I rate guys on, in an all-time sense.

EDIT: I will say beating a mid-thirties Shane Mosley is impressive. In the same way that Morrison & Briggs got the better of Foreman, & that was impressive too, but doesn't really strike me as what would happen were they to meet anywhere near their respective primes.

All true. Good fighter, handy blend of skill, talent and drive, but looking at the best Ricans ever, there is just no way he makes the top-10, IMO. His predecessor, Trinidad, was plainly superior and barely scrapes into my top-10 on a good day.

[witherspoon]

Why the hell people leaves out the likes of Jose Basora and Cocoa kid. I rank them both ahead of the more popular Trinidad.

Here is my list:
1. Carlos Ortiz
2. Wilfredo Gomez
3. Wilfredo Benitez
4. Pedro Montanez
5. Jose Basora (has a draw vs prime Robinson and win over Jake LaMotta) Do you seriously believe that Trinidad should rank over him. Basora and Cocoa Kid would have beaten Trinidad, of that I have little doubt.
6. Cocoa Kid
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Esteban De Jesus
9. Edwin Rosario
10. Hector Camacho

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He isn't out of place there, anywhere from 9 to 12. I spoke out of turn.