Is it no wonder pro boxing is losing fans to unlicensed/mma?

[Boxing Pirate]

Damian,

When you first started on the unlicensed circuit which so called governing body did you promoter you shows through?

You admit that your present governing body only has 3 promoters going through it at the present time, would it be fair to say the unlicensed circuit just in this country has more governing bodies and so called belts than world professional boxing has?

In addition when you promote your title fights do you promote world title fights or domestic title fights, if so why when you only have 3 promoters within your organisation?

I ask these questions not to mock you but to prove my point that when a fighter wins a title within these organisations so called boxing fans who attend really do believe they are having a photo with the world or british champion or whatever bauble they have just won which in my view is hoodwinking the fans to say the least.

[damianhucker1]

Damian,

When you first started on the unlicensed circuit which so called governing body did you promoter you shows through?

You admit that your present governing body only has 3 promoters going through it at the present time, would it be fair to say the unlicensed circuit just in this country has more governing bodies and so called belts than world professional boxing has?

In addition when you promote your title fights do you promote world title fights or domestic title fights, if so why when you only have 3 promoters within your organisation?

I ask these questions not to mock you but to prove my point that when a fighter wins a title within these organisations so called boxing fans who attend really do believe they are having a photo with the world or british champion or whatever bauble they have just won which in my view is hoodwinking the fans to say the least.

To answer your questions

When i first started i registered with BBF , paid for promotors license etc but realised pretty early that they wasnt for me and never actually promoted an event under their banner , i just went it alone at first , only joined an organisation afterwards as people wanted to have rakings etc to fight for titles , i looked at several before deciding to go with OIBA , just thought they were a better fit for what i wanted to do .

Yes theres only 3 promotors at current but there was more , theres was 8 i think when i joined and eventually was upto 15 , but several got removed , some went to other organisations and some just packed it in , it will be back up to 8 again soon though as its going to merge with another small one that seems to be of good standard but only is small at the moment .

Yes i think its fair to say theres more titles / organisations than with the pros but some try to get all the belts to be undisputed champion , an example is billy besseys Heavyweight , hes going round fighting all the heavyweight champions scooping up all the belts .

People know though that the champion makes the belt , ok some will be taken in that their mate is the world champion or whatever but most usually know what the crack is , OIBA dont currently do world titles , just British and regionals , thats not to say they wouldnt do International title fights as i know one was mooted a while back but that was for a guy who was dominating his division so his promotor wanted to bring in a foreign opponent and wouldnt have been able to defend his title so was going to bring in a hungarian for an international bout and vacate his british title .

I get your point , theres all different titles , some being governed well some not so well but that happens in the pros as well as im sure you will agree .

what im not trying to do is say id rather be involved in unlicensed than pro boxing as thats simply not the truth but its got more benefits than some will lead you to believe , when im pro no doubt ill have prospect vs journeyman fights but billys original point of it not happening on an unlicensed show is a valid point , sometimes we dont like to see change but theres certain aspects of the unlicensed circuit that could be implemented into the pro game , too much emphasis on the unbeaten records , which has been discussed before , i match my lads tough simply because a) it gives paying spectators value for money and b ) it seperates the men from the boys , if anyones going to be good enough to turn pro it becomes apparant pretty quickly , of courseif someones a huge ticket seller but not great they will be matched appropriately , its a business after all but they wouldnt be getting title shots without improvement , thats a certainty .

edit : only time champions sometimes dont deserve it with OIBA is when theres a vacant British title a prizefighter is done to crown a new champion , winner takes all for belt and prizemoney , sometimes the better lads arent in those as they dont want to travel 150 miles when there not guaranteed to earn anything unless they win the tournament , ive got one such champion promoted by me but hes got his first defence in feb so will see what hes made of then

[Boxing Pirate]

Damian thank you again for the reply.

[bripez]

I could of stepped in to a harder 10 rounder yes but Iv had my career guided well and why stop when It comes to a title fight?

Not being funny mate, but how the frig is that a title fight ? - your opponent has lost his last 19 fights !

As you said you are not a big ticket seller, but have you considered that this could be down to the fact that you have hardly been matched competitively - eg. your last opponent had a record of 0-33-1

Even your best mate would find it hard to part with £30 to watch that.

[Brit Ryan]

Having seen Phil Gill v Ibrar Riyaz last night, i think we can say Mickey's critics were proved WRONG

[m1kee50]

Yawn, Billy why don't you stop bitching & try putting some pro shows on. It seems like you are constantly whining about everything that everyone else does. If you don't like our shows don't come, I don't think I don't think you realise the light it puts you in to be going on about how my shows & fighters are all a big fraud but your unlicensed shows are all genuine fights? Can you name a fighter who became a British champ that came from the pile of crap that is 'semi pro'? I can't .

I'm actually looking forward to Phil's fight against Ibrar Riaz. Riaz is much better than his record & is a quality journeyman, rarely in a bad fight as is Phil. No ones billing this as a world title, which I've often seen far worse fights billed as on unlicensed.

Julius Francis. Unlicensed, went pro, won British title.

Tom Glover and Micky Steeds both came from that background as well.

[m1kee50]

I went to an unlicensed show last night

supporting my gym-mate who won in 73 seconds, but it was his third fight, he's been training about 2.5 years, he's not walked in from the pub. The bloke he fought looked technically sound, but my mate is a strong puncher, he got an uppercut through on the inside and dropped the fella. Looking on youtube his opponent has had at least 7 unlicensed fights, plus who knows how many in other disciplines, or as an amateur. So many of the people I have watched fight unlicensed have amateur experience, or kickboxing, or MMA.

to be honest it kind of bores me to keep telling people how ive never seen a row at an unlicensed show, and ive been to at least a dozen, so when someone turns round and says 'i went to one, never again' i'm not really interested because one-offs can happen, and if ive been to a dozen well-behaved shows, by definition those are not one-offs, are they?

[damianhucker1]

Having seen Phil Gill v Ibrar Riyaz last night, i think we can say Mickey's critics were proved WRONG

Do i take it from that comment that it was a good fight then ?

Only 2 fights though ? not exactly good value that , is it ?

My next show has 25 fights , If im honest thats due to all four of my biggest ticket sellers being unavailable for various reasons so stacked the card a bit and 7 of the fights are part of a prizefighter , but even on my last show with all those lads on i still had 17 fights , and thats considering 2 fell through on the day .

[Craig14]

Having seen Phil Gill v Ibrar Riyaz last night, i think we can say Mickey's critics were proved WRONG

Do i take it from that comment that it was a good fight then ?

Only 2 fights though ? not exactly good value that , is it ?

My next show has 25 fights , If im honest thats due to all four of my biggest ticket sellers being unavailable for various reasons so stacked the card a bit and 7 of the fights are part of a prizefighter , but even on my last show with all those lads on i still had 17 fights , and thats considering 2 fell through on the day .

There was alot more than two fights. The reports up on Boxrecnews under John Mcdermott's fight.

[damianhucker1]

Having seen Phil Gill v Ibrar Riyaz last night, i think we can say Mickey's critics were proved WRONG

Do i take it from that comment that it was a good fight then ?

Only 2 fights though ? not exactly good value that , is it ?

My next show has 25 fights , If im honest thats due to all four of my biggest ticket sellers being unavailable for various reasons so stacked the card a bit and 7 of the fights are part of a prizefighter , but even on my last show with all those lads on i still had 17 fights , and thats considering 2 fell through on the day .

There was alot more than two fights. The reports up on Boxrecnews under John Mcdermott's fight.

Just from looking on boxrec results mate thats all

[Old bones Ian]

I went to Billy's show at Southsea last night, and i have to say all the matches were well matched. The boxers brought lots of supporters and they all seemed to go home happy. Billy didn't match his boxers easy, some won and some lost, but you could see that they all knew their way around a ring, and hadn't just been thrown in.
Most of the fights went the distance, one of them was a right barnstormer and the lad had brought 130 fans so it made for a great atmosphere. The 2 stoppages i saw on the night were well timed, and all the bouts were reffed correctly.

The night was well organised, and there were plenty of security and waiting staff for the tables.

This was as far removed from the 'fat' bloke unlicenced boxing nights as you could get, If someone wanted to get into 'white' collar boxing then i'd have no problem recommending Team Bessey or any of the other teams on the night.

[HellraiserBoxing]

OK so now we've had the fight which sold out with about 300 queing up outside so the event was v successful. The main event (which was Phil v Ibrar Riyaz) had the entire audience on their feet throughout the contest as they stood in ring centre and went for it non stop. There were several exchanges that were truely impressive to all the 'boxing' people there. Both were highly motivated to win & had clearly prepared properly for the fight. Phil has always been prepared for previous fights Riyaz hasn't, he's chosen a different route & often fought at short notice & against good prospects, on this night he fought like his life depended on it & to his credit, it was that attitude that made it a great fight. Both of the top of the bill fighters put on career best performances and were an absolute credit to the sport of boxing. No one at any stage tried to bluff anyone into thinking it was for a world title because it wasnt. (It was for the British Masters- which was invented purely to give up & coming fighters & journeymen the opportunity to box for a minor title, this means a lot to them & also gives invaluable experience of boxing 10 rounds.)

So after all this I'd say this was a good experience for everyone & was well worthwhile all the hard work by lots of different people. Everyone left happy knowing that they'd seen a highly competitive fight between 2 athletes who gave their all. I certainly don't have any regrets over any of it.

Well done Phi & Ibrar, you will undoubtedly get a lot of credit for having put on a great performance.

[Counter-puncher]

I went to Billy's show at Southsea last night, and i have to say all the matches were well matched. The boxers brought lots of supporters and they all seemed to go home happy. Billy didn't match his boxers easy, some won and some lost, but you could see that they all knew their way around a ring, and hadn't just been thrown in.
Most of the fights went the distance, one of them was a right barnstormer and the lad had brought 130 fans so it made for a great atmosphere. The 2 stoppages i saw on the night were well timed, and all the bouts were reffed correctly.

The night was well organised, and there were plenty of security and waiting staff for the tables.

This was as far removed from the 'fat' bloke unlicenced boxing nights as you could get, If someone wanted to get into 'white' collar boxing then i'd have no problem recommending Team Bessey or any of the other teams on the night.

interesting post, thanks fella

[damianhucker1]

I'm not keen on the unlicensed circuit. Talk of it taking over the sport is premature. Some interesting names have popped up in terms of guys who came from that world, but you aren't going to find a talent on a par with Floyd Mayweather, Hagler, Hearns or Leonard in the unlicensed scene anytime soon so I don't see the upside of watching it.

Mayweather , Hearns and Leonard ????, Blimey mate i think every pro promotor is hoping they get someone like those let alone the unlicensed guys , you could look in every amateur gym in the world and struggle to find one , talk about raising the bar

[damianhucker1]

I'm not keen on the unlicensed circuit. Talk of it taking over the sport is premature. Some interesting names have popped up in terms of guys who came from that world, but you aren't going to find a talent on a par with Floyd Mayweather, Hagler, Hearns or Leonard in the unlicensed scene anytime soon so I don't see the upside of watching it.

Mayweather , Hearns and Leonard ????, Blimey mate i think every pro promotor is hoping they get someone like those let alone the unlicensed guys , you could look in every amateur gym in the world and struggle to find one , talk about raising the bar

I probably should have made the point more explicit -- fighters with the ability to go far in boxing will stick to boxing, guys who can't or won't make it in boxing, or who can no longer perform well, will head to the unlicensed circuit.

But sometimes some lads come to the sport late , and sometimes it serves them better to do unlicensed as they cant afford to give up their spare time for free like the amateurs do , just because someones got work commitments or kids doesnt mean they are never gonna be good enough to make an impact as a pro ,
Ive got a couple of lads who have barely done any amateur but are good and cant do it for free for various reasons (some just WONT do it for free but thats a different matter alltogether )

Of the lads ive got , those that are good will turn pro when i do , and i know 2 of those will do well as pros , i know this as ive had pros come to spar with them at times and these 2 will do well as they were better than the pros that came , in one instance one of them was well on top of an unbeaten pro , yes we all know sparring is different to a fight but it does give you some idea about them .

Im not going to give names away at this point as i dont want other promotors who read this to be alerted to them , i have also used 2 lads on my shows in past and due to their location i spoke to steve wood on here about them and he signed them , now im not blowing my own trumpet here but i knew they could do the pros too and was right when they were signed by steve , one just won his second pro fight to go 2-0 the other has so far only had 1 which he won , ok theyve fought journeyman so doesnt give any real indication of what they are like i guess but the one whos had 1 isnt as good as the one whos done 2 yet he boxed a lad whos is 6-0 as a pro on one of my unlicensed shows before he was pro and matched him and should maybe have got the decision , thats considering hes a lightweight and the lad he boxed is a welter and he took it on the day too following a pull out

Theres definately some good lads on the unlicensed circuit , and promotors will know if there good ticket sllers too which is an added bonus as boxing on the unlicensed circuit can get the fighter a bit of a following before they are pro , makes the promotor that signs them have a little bit easier job as they are a bit more known .

[damianhucker1]

I probably should have made the point more explicit -- fighters with the ability to go far in boxing will stick to boxing, guys who can't or won't make it in boxing, or who can no longer perform well, will head to the unlicensed circuit.

But sometimes some lads come to the sport late , and sometimes it serves them better to do unlicensed as they cant afford to give up their spare time for free like the amateurs do , just because someones got work commitments or kids doesnt mean they are never gonna be good enough to make an impact as a pro ,
Ive got a couple of lads who have barely done any amateur but are good and cant do it for free for various reasons (some just WONT do it for free but thats a different matter alltogether )

Of the lads ive got , those that are good will turn pro when i do , and i know 2 of those will do well as pros , i know this as ive had pros come to spar with them at times and these 2 will do well as they were better than the pros that came , in one instance one of them was well on top of an unbeaten pro , yes we all know sparring is different to a fight but it does give you some idea about them .

Im not going to give names away at this point as i dont want other promotors who read this to be alerted to them , i have also used 2 lads on my shows in past and due to their location i spoke to steve wood on here about them and he signed them , now im not blowing my own trumpet here but i knew they could do the pros too and was right when they were signed by steve , one just won his second pro fight to go 2-0 the other has so far only had 1 which he won , ok theyve fought journeyman so doesnt give any real indication of what they are like i guess but the one whos had 1 isnt as good as the one whos done 2 yet he boxed a lad whos is 6-0 as a pro on one of my unlicensed shows before he was pro and matched him and should maybe have got the decision , thats considering hes a lightweight and the lad he boxed is a welter and he took it on the day too following a pull out

Theres definately some good lads on the unlicensed circuit , and promotors will know if there good ticket sllers too which is an added bonus as boxing on the unlicensed circuit can get the fighter a bit of a following before they are pro , makes the promotor that signs them have a little bit easier job as they are a bit more known .

I’m not disputing your points or passion, mate, just alluding to the thread title and pointing out that, for the reasons you outline, unlicensed boxing will never take over regular boxing. It works for some guys for the reasons you’ve mentioned and you get guys who will excel in the unlicensed world, but in most cases won’t be able to cut the mustard in regular boxing. I’m not trying to piss on anyone’s Christmas tree here, and it is hard to talk up licensed boxing when you have fights such as Enzo-Healy knocking about, just offering my perspective on the thread’s guiding statement.

Im not knocking your view mate , in the main youll be right , most lads boxing unlicensed wont be anywhere near pro standard and never will , but theres some gems out there that just need polishing .

Unlicensed will never over take pro boxing , that in itself doesnt make sense , its like saying League 2 could become the new premiership , I think Billys original point was the fact that the matches up like Phill Gill vs Ibrar Riyaz wouldnt happen on unlicensed shows due to their records on paper being so different, as it turns out it was apparantly a good fight but it really wouldnt have happened on any unlicensed show thats in good standing , i suppose though you could say that if a lad went pro he must have had something about him so a journeyman should in theory be capable of challenging for titles on the unlicensed circuit but its not the case in many instances for whatever reason .

Ill have a better idea in april as ive got an ex pro journeyman boxing one of my fighters , he won a couple of dozen fights as a pro but lost nearly 5 times as many as he won , hes boxing a lad whos had 2 fights on my show , that should in theory be a missmatch but it wont be , im pretty confident my lad wins it , despite the huge difference in experience , and this isnt one of the lads im looking to turn pro either , at least not at the moment , maybe given time he will be good enough , well see i guess .

[Counter-puncher]

I'm not keen on the unlicensed circuit. Talk of it taking over the sport is premature. Some interesting names have popped up in terms of guys who came from that world, but you aren't going to find a talent on a par with Floyd Mayweather, Hagler, Hearns or Leonard in the unlicensed scene anytime soon so I don't see the upside of watching it.

you ain't gonna find one on the british small-hall and arena scene, either. i take it you'll be handing in your press credentials and giving it a miss from now on, then?

[Counter-puncher]

I'm not keen on the unlicensed circuit. Talk of it taking over the sport is premature. Some interesting names have popped up in terms of guys who came from that world, but you aren't going to find a talent on a par with Floyd Mayweather, Hagler, Hearns or Leonard in the unlicensed scene anytime soon so I don't see the upside of watching it.

you ain't gonna find one on the british small-hall and arena scene, either. i take it you'll be handing in your press credentials and giving it a miss from now on, then?

How do you know? .

well we've gone 25 years of my watching the sport without finding one yet.

i think the point i was trying to make is that it doesn't matter too much if boxing, be it licensed or otherwise, doesn't turn out any Haglers or Leonards. it can be very watchable at the Rhodes - Moore level. or the Jamie Ball - Nasser Al-Harbi level. or at the kind of levels described in the posts on unlicensed boxing above. but holding unlicensed to account for not producing or being likely to produce a Mayweather or Leonard seems somewhat akin to decrying the State School system for not producing enough Stephen Hawkings.

[Counter-puncher]

That hardly ties in with the idea that I should give up on attending boxing shows.

.

for future reference:



= a reference made with a degree of levity. ie one that is not entirely serious.

[Counter-puncher]

How do you know? .

well we've gone 25 years of my watching the sport without finding one yet.

i think the point i was trying to make is that it doesn't matter too much if boxing, be it licensed or otherwise, doesn't turn out any Haglers or Leonards. it can be very watchable at the Rhodes - Moore level. or the Jamie Ball - Nasser Al-Harbi level. or at the kind of levels described in the posts on unlicensed boxing above. but holding unlicensed to account for not producing or being likely to produce a Mayweather or Leonard seems somewhat akin to decrying the State School system for not producing enough Stephen Hawkings.

Apologies, I was referring to Floyd Junior, not Senior, and that Floyd's been operating within the past 25 years.

.

not on the british scene, which was what i was referring to.

[Counter-puncher]

That hardly ties in with the idea that I should give up on attending boxing shows.

.

for future reference:



= a reference made with a degree of levity. ie one that is not entirely serious.

But don't you add levity when things get a bit too serious? Damian and I weren't gnarly at one another.

nah, i just can't help myself sometimes.