Greatest Achievements of the 1980s

[yancey]

Immature, eh?

Coming from a clown who has changed his moniker about every six months.

Ashamed of what you post and have to start over, eh?

[Giancarlo]

Do you get a discount at McDonalds with your senior citizen card?

[yancey]

Do you get a discount at McDonalds with your senior citizen card?

Yeah, don't you remember me giving it to you when you took my last order.

"Would you like fries with that, sir"?

Bet you get tired of saying that all day, eh?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Immature, eh?

Coming from a clown who has changed his moniker about every six months.

Ashamed of what you post and have to start over, eh?

In fairness, the first of his name changes was thrust upon him after I got him banned

[Giancarlo]

Do you get a discount at McDonalds with your senior citizen card?

Yeah, don't you remember me giving it to you when you took my last order.

"Would you like fries with that, sir"?

Bet you get tired of saying that all day, eh?

You liar!

Your order was the same as all the other toothless old crones that come in stinking of stale urine.

"One ice-cream cone. And don't forget the pensioner discount!"

[Giancarlo]

Immature, eh?

Coming from a clown who has changed his moniker about every six months.

Ashamed of what you post and have to start over, eh?

In fairness, the first of his name changes was thrust upon him after I got him banned

Imagine being banned from here!

Where else would I get to meet so many blowhard nutters in one place?

[yancey]

Immature, eh?

Coming from a clown who has changed his moniker about every six months.

Ashamed of what you post and have to start over, eh?

In fairness, the first of his name changes was thrust upon him after I got him banned

Can you do it again?

We don't want him to lose the McDonald's gig.

Get busy with the fries, Connie.

[Giancarlo]

Has anyone else noticed he has yet to address the issue of Joe Frazier obviously talking utter nonsense when he said Ali underestimated him in FOTC?

[Giancarlo]

In fairness, the first of his name changes was thrust upon him after I got him banned

I tried to get you banned for stupidity as I recall.

Shep said to me "Connie, you have to understand, if I started banning people for stupidity I'd end up sh1tcanning 80% of them, including the moderators!. Besides for most of them this is their only contact with other humans and I couldn't bring myself to take that away from them."

[yancey]

Has anyone else noticed he has yet to address the issue of Joe Frazier obviously talking utter nonsense when he said Ali underestimated him in FOTC?

Has anyone noticed you now sneaking away from the word "badly" as in Ali "badly underestimated" Frazier, which was your original incredibly stupid and naive "opinion"?

Bye.

I have no time to dick around with some uninformed kid.

[Giancarlo]

No, I stand by the "badly underestimated" opinion.

If, as Joe Frazier himself clearly stated in the interview I posted, Ali thought he "was slow, flatfooted and couldn't move", then I'd say that qualifies for badly underestimated.

[Giancarlo]

Bye.

I have no time to dick around with some uninformed kid.

Yeah, dicking around with kids is definately a no no situation, Nance.

Have a little nap and you'll probably feel better.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

What would you say was Ali's best effort 1960-67, Saad?

If Ali was better after the lay-off, what would you say were his prime years? 1970 to when?

Tough question, probably Liston. I'd say 70-Zaire was his best, but it's splitting hairs. His competition was so good after the exile that it's odd to me to say he lost something.

[Ambling Alp]

That wasn't Leonard's first fight at Middleweight. The rest of your points are valid. Then again, the decisive nature of the fights shouldn't be disregarded. Leonard didn't beat the dog shit out of Hagler.

This was Leonard's first fight above 153 pounds. (He did fight one opponent who weighed more than that over that previously.)
The first Duran-Leonard fight was a competitive fight. It was about as close as Hagler-Leonard.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That wasn't Leonard's first fight at Middleweight. The rest of your points are valid. Then again, the decisive nature of the fights shouldn't be disregarded. Leonard didn't beat the dog shit out of Hagler.

This was Leonard's first fight above 153 pounds. (He did fight one opponent who weighed more than that over that previously.)
The first Duran-Leonard fight was a competitive fight. It was about as close as Hagler-Leonard.

He fought at Middleweight at 153 pounds. He also fought several Middleweights behind closed doors in preparation for Marvin. Be more specific if you don't want to be corrected. Duran/Leonard 1 was certainly competitive, he also took a terrible beating and it was in no way as close as Hagler/Leonard. You couldn't conceivably make a case for Ray winning. I had it 10-5 and gave Leonard the last two rounds. Duran/Leonard 2 was closer than 1.

[Ambling Alp]

153 is Junior Middleweight. He was not used to fighting at 160 when he fought Hagler. Duran was used to fighting at welterweight when he fought Leonard.

Closed doors fights? That is grasping at straws. That doesn't come close to counting. That is far different than a real fight. That is not even an exhibition.

If even you had Leonard within 5 points over 15 rounds, it had to be fairly close. (Even elmer only had Duran winning by 3 points.) I had it 144-142 for Duran. At the time, that is about what most people thought.
I had Leonard up by points after only 7 rounds against Duran in the 2nd fight. Obviously you can't build up as much of a lead after 7 rounds as you can after 15. It was clear that Leonard was winning at the point that Duran quit. Had it gone on like this for 15 rounds at this rate Leonard would have won by at least 5 points. If Duran thought it was close and he had a chance, he would not quit.
The closest legitimate case for Hagler-Leonard is 2 points, and that is over 12 rounds.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Have you ever admitted you were wrong about anything? You said Leonard never fought at Middleweight, I corrected you. Were Robinson's fights against LaMotta not Middleweight fights? Were Armstrong's Welterweight defenses when he was under the Lightweight limit Lightweight fights? You don't have to beat every little point to death. It was just one fight, you were wrong, get on with life.

As for the real fights behind closed doors, I got that from Dundee. Grasping at straws? For what? Arguing with you? I don't care what you want to believe. But it was no headgear, full contact fights. Unless of course Angelo made it up to try and besmirch your beloved.

I had Leonard by 2 over Hagler, but many people think marvin won. I've never encountered anybody who thinks Leonard won in Montreal. And even you can't possibly compare the physical punishment between the two fights.

Obviously Duran quit, he was doing quite well in the round he quit in. No question about who the winner was, but it was a close fight up to that point. Montreal was a much uglier lesson, no matter how painful that is for you to accept. Ray got his ass whipped something fierce, and that is factual.

[Seamus]

I believe Ferdie Pacheco thought Leonard won in Montreal, and there were some sportswriters who were also of that opinion.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I believe Ferdie Pacheco thought Leonard won in Montreal, and there were some sportswriters who were also of that opinion.

I can't say I'm surprised to hear that from Ferdie. He was a real clown.

[Boilermaker]

I believe Ferdie Pacheco thought Leonard won in Montreal, and there were some sportswriters who were also of that opinion.

When the decision was announced, there was doubt everywhere as to who would win (and not just like nowadays where you presume one or two judges were in the pocket). It could have fairly gone either way. I thought Duran shaded it (at the time), even though I wanted Leonard to win.

[Boilermaker]

Have you ever admitted you were wrong about anything? You said Leonard never fought at Middleweight, I corrected you. Were Robinson's fights against LaMotta not Middleweight fights? Were Armstrong's Welterweight defenses when he was under the Lightweight limit Lightweight fights? You don't have to beat every little point to death. It was just one fight, you were wrong, get on with life.

As for the real fights behind closed doors, I got that from Dundee. Grasping at straws? For what? Arguing with you? I don't care what you want to believe. But it was no headgear, full contact fights. Unless of course Angelo made it up to try and besmirch your beloved.

I had Leonard by 2 over Hagler, but many people think marvin won. I've never encountered anybody who thinks Leonard won in Montreal. And even you can't possibly compare the physical punishment between the two fights.

Obviously Duran quit, he was doing quite well in the round he quit in. No question about who the winner was, but it was a close fight up to that point. Montreal was a much uglier lesson, no matter how painful that is for you to accept. Ray got his ass whipped something fierce, and that is factual.

Who did Dundee say the private fights were with and how did Leonard go?

[Ambling Alp]

Have you ever admitted you were wrong about anything? You said Leonard never fought at Middleweight, I corrected you. Were Robinson's fights against LaMotta not Middleweight fights? Were Armstrong's Welterweight defenses when he was under the Lightweight limit Lightweight fights? You don't have to beat every little point to death. It was just one fight, you were wrong, get on with life.

As for the real fights behind closed doors, I got that from Dundee. Grasping at straws? For what? Arguing with you? I don't care what you want to believe. But it was no headgear, full contact fights. Unless of course Angelo made it up to try and besmirch your beloved.

I had Leonard by 2 over Hagler, but many people think marvin won. I've never encountered anybody who thinks Leonard won in Montreal. And even you can't possibly compare the physical punishment between the two fights.

Obviously Duran quit, he was doing quite well in the round he quit in. No question about who the winner was, but it was a close fight up to that point. Montreal was a much uglier lesson, no matter how painful that is for you to accept. Ray got his ass whipped something fierce, and that is factual.

I know the closed door sessions occurred. Not disputing that all. (Leonard mentioned this in Biography) I'm saying they aren't remotely like real fights. It's ridculaus that you think they are comparable. Its quite a bit different when you have real fight rather than one where the public can't see it, doesn't count on your record, we don't know who the opponents were, what the the rules etc. Like saying if Michael Jordan plays in a pick up game he is not retired.

I don't think just because you fight an opponent is a middleweight, that automatically makes you a middleweight. I have always maintained this position in regard to other fighters in similar situations. (Yes there are gray areas to this, which I am sure you would like to talk about instead of the real point.)

The real point is that Leonard was not much of a natural middleweight when he fought Hagler as Duran was when he fought Leonard. I was responding to the tired notion that Duran was not a welterweight when he fought Leonard. He was.

"Ray got his ass whipped something fierce, that is factual" Really?
First look up what factual means, it's clear you don't know. It is a fact that it was not an ass whipping; just your biased opinion.
Winning by 5 points in a 15-round fight (on you totally unbiased scorecard) is an ass whipping? Please.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I never said they were the same thing, I said more is made of his layoff than should be. He wasn't rusty, those fights were more than sparring.

I never said Leonard was a Middleweight, you said Hagler was his first Middleweight fight and I corrected you. Just accept it and move on. You're like a scorned broad every time you say something wrong.

And yes, Ray got his ass whipped. The scorecards are irrelevant to that fact. His face had lumps upon lumps and he was pissing blood. They could put a picture next to leonard for ass whipping in the dictionary.

And it's really funny when you have the audacity to tell me to look something up in the dictionary when you offer up ridculaus in the same post.

[Ambling Alp]

Glad I made you laugh.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Glad I made you laugh.

You always do.