Classic Heavyweight Bouts: Predictions wanted !

[Loki]

This should belong in classic forum, but nobody posts

These judgements are made on "Prime" condition, and are up for debate.

Tyson V Ali
(Prime Tyson would KO Ali inside 3. Nobody could beat this man 88/89)

Marciano V Dempsey
(I would pay £1000 to see this. Your guess is a good as mine)

Liston V Frazier
(I would lean towards Sonny, but only if he wasn't paid to take a dive)

Jack Johnson V Bob Fitzsimmons
(Jack is the man. Pitty he lived when people were complete bastards)

Foreman V Lewis
(Big George would win by early KO)

[Ryan]

Tyson - Ali - Tyson spends the night before the fight beating his wife, raping a few other women. Then he tries to eat Ali's children, gets into a street fight with Mitch Green and gets his probation revoked. He's so tired by the start of the fight he can hardly stand up. Then he gets frustrated by the fact that Ali hits back when he gets hit, and bites Ali's ear off in the 2nd round resulting in a DQ.

[ShoeShine]

Tyson was great in those early years but I dont agree that he would KO a prime Ali in 3 rds, Tyson never faced anyone of Ali's talent during those years and he always had trouble with guys with a good jab. I think a prime Ali would beat him with a good jab, speed, footwork and smarts.

[BoxBuzz]

I like your Tyson-Ali opening bit, good one.

Always warm up the crowd with a good joke before you hit them with something to think about.

Loki....means Mischief right?

[mateo1]

As has been said, Mike had problems will taller guys early on.. like Tony Tucker and Mitch Green. And Green was a complete no one.

I long though Mike looked unstoppable because of the opposition. I always felt (after the Tucker fight) that someone would come along and expose him, and I thought Holyfield would be the one well before Tyson went to jail. Turned out to be right (rubbing knuckels against chest, me fondest pick).

Ali would have beat Tyson in a TKO, exposed him ala Douglas, Evander, Lennox. Even with Cus or Kevin in his corner.

[BoxBuzz]

Liston Frazier is genuinely intriguing to me. I can't call it. Most people would probably guess it would play out like Foreman Frazier, but somehow that does not feel right to me.

[Tantum]

(Jack is the man. Pitty he lived when people were complete bastards)

People today are just so nice.

[Grimm]

As has been said, Mike had problems will taller guys early on.. like Tony Tucker and Mitch Green. And Green was a complete no one.

I long though Mike looked unstoppable because of the opposition. I always felt (after the Tucker fight) that someone would come along and expose him, and I thought Holyfield would be the one well before Tyson went to jail. Turned out to be right (rubbing knuckels against chest, me fondest pick).

Ali would have beat Tyson in a TKO, exposed him ala Douglas, Evander, Lennox. Even with Cus or Kevin in his corner.

Just because he didn't knock Green and Tucker out does not mean he had a problem with them.

[Rory McCloskey]

jack johson was an asshole who made derogitory comments about the fighters of the next generations that were black. he often ridiculed joe louis, and once said "that man was hit with more rights in the schmelling fight then i ever been hit with in my life, and you wanna compare him to me?"... he also did not show support for sugar ray robinson.

[Grimm]

jack johson was an asshole who made derogitory comments about the fighters of the next generations that were black. he often ridiculed joe louis, and once said "that man was hit with more rights in the schmelling fight then i ever been hit with in my life, and you wanna compare him to me?"... he also did not show support for sugar ray robinson.

I'm just guessing at this one...............you don't like him?

[Rory McCloskey]

and who says noone could beat tyson in 88/89..the guy didnt face anyone... oh wait i forgot.. bonecrusher smith.. what a joke name..so 80's.. ali and all the other greats would tear his head off and eat him for dinner.

[dempseyfire]

jack johson was an asshole who made derogitory comments about the fighters of the next generations that were black. he often ridiculed joe louis, and once said "that man was hit with more rights in the schmelling fight then i ever been hit with in my life, and you wanna compare him to me?"... he also did not show support for sugar ray robinson.

He was jealous of the acclaim Louis was recieving that he never did, and Louis and his camp also shunned him when he offered to help train Louis. They didn't want Johnson's rep to be thought of in the same vein as Louis, and Jack was understandably hurt.

[cold_ko]

This should belong in classic forum, but nobody posts

These judgements are made on "Prime" condition, and are up for debate.


Foreman V Lewis
(Big George would win by early KO)

I think you are either a complete joke or don't follow
news.

Foreman himself said that Lennox lewis is better than
him, and said ali no longer the only greatest.

[Maddox]

I think you are either a complete joke or don't follow
news.

Foreman himself said that Lennox lewis is better than
him, and said ali no longer the only greatest.

Yeah, and Big George also said that RJJ fights like he's 6 foot 12 and that the most important man in the ring other than the two fighters is the referee.....

I put a lot of faith in what Foreman says because he always makes sense....

[mateo1]

As has been said, Mike had problems will taller guys early on.. like Tony Tucker and Mitch Green. And Green was a complete no one.

I long though Mike looked unstoppable because of the opposition. I always felt (after the Tucker fight) that someone would come along and expose him, and I thought Holyfield would be the one well before Tyson went to jail. Turned out to be right (rubbing knuckels against chest, me fondest pick).

Ali would have beat Tyson in a TKO, exposed him ala Douglas, Evander, Lennox. Even with Cus or Kevin in his corner.

Just because he didn't knock Green and Tucker out does not mean he had a problem with them.

Tucker did give him problems, I saw that live as a kid and remember it clearly. His height and reach being the main reason, could see it clearly even as a kid. I didn't see the Green fight, but I'm sure you are right on that one. Of course Douglas exposed him a few years later, and he also had problems with Razor.

The Rudduck fight result doesn't indicate it, but I watched both fights a few times (and live then) and it seemed to me his height and reach caused problems, along with Razors hard shots. I knew at that point that Holyfield could beat him based on styles, and remember all my college buds thought I was on crack. I actually believe if Rudduck was a little more polished, he would have taken him out in the 2nd fight.

[Ezzard]

Ali stops Tyson before the 10th... It's comeptitive for 3 rounds but then Tyson unravels.

I think Dempsey wins by SD. He builds up a big elad and scores an early KD. Rocky comes on later on and scores a late KD.

Liston keeps Joe off him with the jab and then pummels him into oblivion sometime in the 6th

Johnson stops Bob whenever he feels like it.

Foreman KO's Lewis in 4 but Lennox out points him in the rematch.

[BoxBuzz]

Ezzard I'm probably with you on all except I need clarification. I take it the first Foreman Lewis fight takes place before Foremans Self imposed Exile and the second one takes place after. If so I agree.


Also it is an interesting take on the Liston Frazier matchup. Does anyone see Frazier beating Liston? I'm curious is all. I don't have a pick between those two.

[gensu3k1]

As has been said, Mike had problems will taller guys early on.. like Tony Tucker and Mitch Green. And Green was a complete no one.

I long though Mike looked unstoppable because of the opposition. I always felt (after the Tucker fight) that someone would come along and expose him, and I thought Holyfield would be the one well before Tyson went to jail. Turned out to be right (rubbing knuckels against chest, me fondest pick).

Ali would have beat Tyson in a TKO, exposed him ala Douglas, Evander, Lennox. Even with Cus or Kevin in his corner.

Just because he didn't knock Green and Tucker out does not mean he had a problem with them.

Tucker did give him problems, I saw that live as a kid and remember it clearly. His height and reach being the main reason, could see it clearly even as a kid. I didn't see the Green fight, but I'm sure you are right on that one. Of course Douglas exposed him a few years later, and he also had problems with Razor.

The Rudduck fight result doesn't indicate it, but I watched both fights a few times (and live then) and it seemed to me his height and reach caused problems, along with Razors hard shots. I knew at that point that Holyfield could beat him based on styles, and remember all my college buds thought I was on crack. I actually believe if Rudduck was a little more polished, he would have taken him out in the 2nd fight.

Things did get a bit tenuous for Mike in the second Ruddock fight, didn't they?

But Tyson was not the same after the Douglas fight (or really even after firing Rooney). You can see from as early as round 1 that he'd slowed down a lot.

[Ezzard]

BoxBuzz

I think you were right to talk about Liston-Frazier and the Foreman-Frazier template. I think Liston was a better fighter than George with similar physical gifts. It might be a lazy analysis but Frazier's losses to George were so dramatic that it's difficult to see beyond it.

[sharkeysboy]

Given how Billy Conn did against the Bomber, I'd have to think Tunney would stand a chance. If you look at all the available footage of the Dempsey-Tunney fights (not just the long count round), Tunney really toyed with Dempsey . Given that Louis was destroyed by Schmelling, out pointed by Conn for 12 rounds and had such problems with Walcott, I'd vote for Tunney.

[Ezzard]

Given how Billy Conn did against the Bomber, I'd have to think Tunney would stand a chance. If you look at all the available footage of the Dempsey-Tunney fights (not just the long count round), Tunney really toyed with Dempsey . Given that Louis was destroyed by Schmelling, out pointed by Conn for 12 rounds and had such problems with Walcott, I'd vote for Tunney.

I also think Tunney would have given Louis a lot of problems. It might have taken Louis a second fight to solve them. Joe would have been closing the distance between them as the fight wore on... i think Tunney can win a decision here.