WHAT IS THE GREATEST ACHEIVEMENT BY A BOXER INSIDE THE RING?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 26 Aug 2005, 15:39

What is the greatest acheivement by any boxer in the ring during their career?..... was it Bob Fitzsimmons becoming the first man to win 3 world titles at 3 different weights?... Jack Johnson becoming the first black world heavyweight champion, Joe Louis holding the heavyweight crown 12 years undefeated, Henry Armstrong holding 3 world titles at 3 different weights at the same time, Archie Moore winning the world title at 36/39 years of age... Ray Robinsons tremendous unbeaten streak... Willie Peps amazing unbeaten streak!... ...Muhammad Ali beating George Foreman, Roberto Duran winning the Middleweight crown at 37.... it can be one of these things or something else... views everyone!

8)

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 26 Aug 2005, 15:43

Personally I go for Armstrongs holding 3 world titles at 3 different weights at the same time!... and he should have won a 4th title at middleweight too...... amazing fighter!...

8)

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 26 Aug 2005, 16:15

silkov wrote:Personally I go for Armstrongs holding 3 world titles at 3 different weights at the same time!... and he should have won a 4th title at middleweight too...... amazing fighter!... 8)

Definitely my choice.

For Jack Johnson, I think its more an achievement outside the ring to get the title shot. No doubt once he got the shot he would win.

To add to the discussion: Foreman winning the title at 45.

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 26 Aug 2005, 16:34

I think Joe Louis defending the HEAVYWEIGHT title 26 times in 12 yrs is the greastest achievement inside the ring.

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 26 Aug 2005, 18:17

Maricano retiring undefeated. I know he didn't face the toughest competition but he fought everybody that was available and he had practically no defense. I mean the Rock got hit a lot. And he never got beat. That's pretty amazing. Robinson's unbeaten streak would be second but Sugar cheated, he ducked. None of that sissy stuff for Marciano.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 26 Aug 2005, 19:15

sharkeysboy wrote:Maricano retiring undefeated. I know he didn't face the toughest competition but he fought everybody that was available and he had practically no defense. I mean the Rock got hit a lot. And he never got beat. That's pretty amazing. Robinson's unbeaten streak would be second but Sugar cheated, he ducked. None of that sissy stuff for Marciano.

Who did he duck?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Aug 2005, 19:39

well marciano defended his title against 3 HOF's two of which were still at the top of their game (walcott, moore). i wouldnt say thats bad competetion. its not 70's, but not bad.

and as for sugar ray robinson, who did he duck???? he didnt duck anyone. at welterweight he fought many HOF's. in his second year of fighting he fought HOF's sammy angott and fritzie zivic. he also beat kid gavilan twice who is a top 10 wleterweight of all time. not to mention lamotta.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 26 Aug 2005, 20:16

I think from Sharks contex he might have meant Robinson literally ducked, as in the ring to avoid punches.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 27 Aug 2005, 01:55

It's an interesting point Henry Armstong HOLDING 3 world titles, EXCELLENCE by anybodies measure!

But I'm more inclined to give recognition to National Champions and Contenders and heres why. Once a fighter becomes World Champion and IN the Big money he then has a certain availability to further his title shots and aspirations. In defence first (naturally), but also free to compete in different weight divisions if he so choses!

But fighters who HOLD multiple National titles, "especially" in the past (with only 1 world champion), who never were afforded the same luxary, gained those titles on 'pure' merit alone and in most cases with NO big money purses...
Fighters like Jock McAvoy and Len Harvey in Britain and Dave Sands in Australia and of course the good knowledgeable people on this board I'm sure could name a 'good' few more!

barry · Post by **barry** » 27 Aug 2005, 02:09

It doesn't get any better than what Armstrong accomplished with the three titles within a year, not to mention that he was also in the midst of a winning streak that saw him win 46 straight fights 39 by knockout.

Terry McGovern accomplished a very similar feat within a year in 1899 and 1900 when he won the bantam and featherweight world titles and also knocked out the lightweight world champion all within a year, but the lightweight title was not on the line. McGovern was also in the middle of a very impressive win streak at the time---39-0-2 (33 KO).

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 27 Aug 2005, 02:57

its not the most important, but it could mean the most to many people... jim braddock defeated max baer and becoming world champion, that gave a whole nation hope...it was the greatest underdog story ever, and he won...he gave everyone hope...of course this is biased, im reading so many braddock books and reasearching him so much now-a0days hes all i think about when it comes to boxing...but what he did at the time he did was one of the greatest acheivements ever. especially after a broken hand and shattered dreams.he prevailed. god bless him

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 27 Aug 2005, 06:50

Armstrong also made 20 defences of the Welterweight title which I think is a record in itself (in the welter division)........

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 28 Aug 2005, 18:05

Grimm wrote:
sharkeysboy wrote:Maricano retiring undefeated. I know he didn't face the toughest competition but he fought everybody that was available and he had practically no defense. I mean the Rock got hit a lot. And he never got beat. That's pretty amazing. Robinson's unbeaten streak would be second but Sugar cheated, he ducked. None of that sissy stuff for Marciano.
Who did he duck?

I was making a joke on the old Dempsey line after the first Tunney fight "I forgot to duck." Of course, Sugar Ray didn't duck anybody, at least not that I know of. Thanks to Sherlock for trying to make sense out of my joke.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 29 Aug 2005, 10:09

My top three would be
1. Barry McGuigan's performance against Cruz in 100+ degree heat
2. Duan defeating Leonard
3. JC beating Taylor with 2 secs remaining

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 29 Aug 2005, 14:32

walshb wrote:My top three would be
1. Barry McGuigan's performance against Cruz in 100+ degree heat
2. Duan defeating Leonard
3. JC beating Taylor with 2 secs remaining

Please dont go down that road, He didnt beat Taylor :x

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 29 Aug 2005, 14:57

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:well marciano defended his title against 3 HOF's two of which were still at the top of their game (walcott, moore). i wouldnt say thats bad competetion. its not 70's, but not bad.

Walcott at the top his game against the rock? Weren't they his last 2 fights? It seems like his peak years were those leading up to the 1st Louis fight about 6 years prior to fighting rocky. 49-0 is great enough without any embelishment.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 29 Aug 2005, 15:05

ShoeShine wrote:
walshb wrote:My top three would be
1. Barry McGuigan's performance against Cruz in 100+ degree heat
2. Duan defeating Leonard
3. JC beating Taylor with 2 secs remaining
Please dont go down that road, He didnt beat Taylor :x

He did officially.

But I do know what you mean.. in your head Taylor was robbed. I have the same problem with the Castillo vs Corrales fight.

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 29 Aug 2005, 15:47

vagabundo55 wrote:
ShoeShine wrote:
walshb wrote:My top three would be
1. Barry McGuigan's performance against Cruz in 100+ degree heat
2. Duan defeating Leonard
3. JC beating Taylor with 2 secs remaining
Please dont go down that road, He didnt beat Taylor :x
He did officially.
But I do know what you mean.. in your head Taylor was robbed. I have the same problem with the Castillo vs Corrales fight.

I can see how you could think that also. I guess the only reason I wasnt upset about that one was bc I was rooting for corralless but I feel your pain

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 29 Aug 2005, 18:47

Mike Tyson winnng the heavyweight title at only 20 years and after only two years as a pro.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 29 Aug 2005, 20:44

vagabundo55 wrote:
ShoeShine wrote:
walshb wrote:My top three would be
1. Barry McGuigan's performance against Cruz in 100+ degree heat
2. Duan defeating Leonard
3. JC beating Taylor with 2 secs remaining
Please dont go down that road, He didnt beat Taylor :x
He did officially.
But I do know what you mean.. in your head Taylor was robbed. I have the same problem with the Castillo vs Corrales fight.

I don't think that Corrales vs. Castillo is even close to the same thing, Corrales may have even been up on some scorecards when they stopped the fight and had they not stopped it Castillo may have had brain damage or something.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 29 Aug 2005, 20:55

Grimm wrote:
vagabundo55 wrote:
ShoeShine wrote:Please dont go down that road, He didnt beat Taylor :x
He did officially.
But I do know what you mean.. in your head Taylor was robbed. I have the same problem with the Castillo vs Corrales fight.
I don't think that Corrales vs. Castillo is even close to the same thing, Corrales may have even been up on some scorecards when they stopped the fight and had they not stopped it Castillo may have had brain damage or something.

The stoppage is not what bothers me.. it's the fact that Corrales got his extra time with his mouthpiece tactic... and in my own mind it's comparable.. Castillo would have ran Corrales over had it not been for the extra 30 seconds he had to recover. Smart tactic.. but in my mind it's a cheap tactic that he used to rob Castillo of the fight.. plus the comparison wasn't about the stoppage it was about fights we see differently in our heads.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Aug 2005, 01:59

great john L wrote

Walcott at the top his game against the rock? Weren't they his last 2 fights? It seems like his peak years were those leading up to the 1st Louis fight about 6 years prior to fighting rocky. 49-0 is great enough without any embelishment.

If you're fighting for the world heavyweight championship and trading fights with other top heavyweight champions in their primes, it certainly does not mean you're washed up. Walcott WAS not past his best when he fought Marciano. Walcott was at the same weight and muscular build he had throughout his prime as a fighter when he fought Marciano. He was obviously in top-notch shape, fighting at a hard pace for 12 rounds and was still not yet slowing down going into the 13th round by all accounts. Furthermore, just watch the' fight, Walcott was as impressive as he'd ever been, except maybe in the first Louis fight which was his peak.

walcott had just won the title a year earlier by outboxing then knocking out a prime ezzard charles out cold with one left hook in one of walcotts top 3 preformances. in his next fight he outpointed charles again and then faced marciano. so he was still in his prime years and he still hadnt shown signs of slipping.

and why did walcott have one more fight after marciano beat him??? cuase his next fight he fought a rematch vs marciano and he was knocked out in 1 round by one punch again in a dissapointing preformance by walcott. he didnt fight the same way as in the first fight, in the rematch walcott was tenative and backed off and didnt show his aggresion and didnt throw many punches. walcott said he blacked out during the count and he said "when u black out like that when u can get up, u know its time to go." also walcott took a beating from marciano as well in that first fight and was worn down, and he seemed to not want it in the 2nd fight liek he did in the first fight. walcott had lost his chance and it was likely now he would not get a third shot at marciano, and walcott left at the right time simple as that. walcott was a definte late bloomer- his prime years 33-38 years and his peak fight his first fight with louis.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Aug 2005, 02:02

my highest ring achievments are this

mike tyson winning the title at 20 years old

george foreamn winning the heavyweight title at 45 years old

archie moore retaining the light-H title at 48 years old

Rocky Marciano 49-0 . only 2 heavyweight champions ever retired undefeated. rocky marciano was one of them. and im not talking about gene tunney.

Bob Fitzimmons becoming first middleweight champ to win heavyweight title.

micheal spinks first light-H champ to win heavyweight title

ray robinsons unbeaten streak and streak up until turpin I.

and a lot others.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 30 Aug 2005, 05:11

There are a lot of great achievements listed here.

What about Monzon's unbeaten run? Or Langford's victories through the many weight classes?

I think ezzrad Charles ' achievement is overlooked. He started as a middleweight and eventually won the Heavyweight title. People tried to say that RJJ made hsitory but Charles did it first and didn't just win a paper title.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Aug 2005, 06:20

Ezzard wrote:I think ezzrad Charles ' achievement is overlooked. He started as a middleweight and eventually won the Heavyweight title. People tried to say that RJJ made hsitory but Charles did it first and didn't just win a paper title.

Yes, but as Brockton pointed out, Fitzsimmons won the MW title and then jumped up to win the HW title, so he did it before Ezzard was even born.

WHAT IS THE GREATEST ACHEIVEMENT BY A BOXER INSIDE THE RING?

WHAT IS THE GREATEST ACHEIVEMENT BY A BOXER INSIDE THE RING?

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