JACK DEMPSEY VS ROCKY MARCIANO!..... WHO WOULD WIN!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 27 Aug 2005, 11:46

Be a bit of a war this one me thinks!.. 8) . I go for Dempsey early or Marciano late...

... views anyone?....

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 27 Aug 2005, 13:15

in there primes?..hmmm i dunno i think i might take dempsey. i might get critisized for this, but i think dempsey could get inside his head n frustrate him, like he did with sharkey. dempsey was a great boxer who had incredible power. i give all the credit in the world to rocky, he was a great fighter, but i think dempsey is a better fighter then anyone rocky fought in there primes... wallcott and moore where the only ones he ever fought in there primes, and moore was naturally a light heavy. ill take dempsey either by decision or late round KO

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Aug 2005, 14:21

what dempsey did against sharkey???? sharkey nearly knocked him out and was ahead on points when dempsey hit sharkey with a legite sucker punch. but that wasnt the prime dempsey.
and u cant say rocky never faced a good fighter like dempsey cause i could say dempsey never faced a guy like rocky in his prime.

i personally think rocky had the better chin. dempsey himself said he didnt have the best chin and use to chew on something to make his jaw better. i think both had the two fisted power and both had the stamina and tougness. i just think rocky will be able to take it better than dempsey. this would be noe of the best fights of all time when comparing matchups. this would be a dream matchup. and i think it would go to the later rounds
with marciano TKO 14 over dempsey.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 27 Aug 2005, 14:52

I like your analysis Blocko however...I'm thinkin you got just wee bit a bias judgin by your screen name there. Wonder what Dempseyfire might have to say on this one? We'll wait and see.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Aug 2005, 15:46

well i think its obvious to anyone bias or not its gonna be a blood bath and war and will be a close fight that will most likely go to later rounds if not the distance.

i mean im not to bias, i pick certain fighters to beat marciano based on style and such. i just think marciano will come out on top of this battle.

and i hate picking winners of these fights, cause i know if both ever fought they would pour all their guts and glory in the ring and there would be no real winner and loser of this fight. both would be winners.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 27 Aug 2005, 16:07

I agree with BB. This would be an all out war till the end. My first inkling was a TKO 13 win for Dempsey just based on his anger in the ring would keep him swinging. Both are evenly matched, this is definitely 50-50. In this fight, I wouldn't really care who won, I would just rewatch it again and again.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 27 Aug 2005, 20:02

dempsey in his prime was one of the strongest punchers ever... i think he had enough power to wear down marciano and probably win a close decision. marciano was great and im not doubting him im just skeptical of him, i hate to use the usually he never fought anyone great in there prime, but it is for the majority true... archie moore and jersey joe were not in the same boat, but moore was naturally light heavy...this isnt to bash on rocky though, because he did beat everyone who ever faced him n its not like he could make joe louis 25 again and fight him. i just think that dempseys style was power, and to own you in the ring...he would have his way with you, and he often got inside your mind...sure he hit sharkey with a lowblow, but it was smart....dirty yes, but arguabley smart.. it worked and you cant disagree with that..i think both fighters fought with the power aspect number 1 on there list, but i think dempsey is just a little better...its a real close one.. i think dempsey just gets the better of marciano there really isnt much else to say id pick dempsey in a UD

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 27 Aug 2005, 20:47

I recall growing up that is was the concensus of the elders then that Dempsey was better and would likely get the better of the Rock. Over the years the competitive edge Dempsey had seems to be waneing. I think I'll stick with the elders better take since they were closer to the action.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 27 Aug 2005, 23:58

I think Dempsey rates higher in 'lifetime achievment'...and I'd make Dempsey an 8-5 favorite...Dempsey was considered a superman in his time...and unfortunately...the people who saw him fight aren't around to offer their opinions...

...and Jack Dempsey may have had the best left hook ever...anybody think he wouldn't score with it against Marciano?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Aug 2005, 00:56

since no one seems to be defending rock, i will have to do it once again.

marciano never got worn down rory. he wore u down. against ezzard charlles, he was more agrresive in the later rounds and in the 15th he was still throwing bombs and he could have gone another 15 rounds. not a lot of people could compete with the rock in the championship rounds. he just wore u down in those rounds cuase he had so much stamina and was so strong. i might give marciano the strength edge over dempsey. he was like a rock, his muscles were so hard. even louis said "it hurt to bump into him." maricano also had the better chin which it will come down to. both had tremendous two handed power.

and rory, walcott was a top 15 heavyweight and ezzard though not in his prime was still a tough dangerous opponent in that first fight and i would take him over tommy gibbons. if we compare the competetion i might give the edge to rocky. i would also take walcott over any of dempsey's title challengers including tunney who beat dempsey.

and sweet scientist, how bout this. u think the rock would land his overhand suzie Q right on dempsey????? because if i recall, luis firpo hit him with the right and knocked him through the ropes, and if it wasnt for the sportswriters helping him up, dempsey would have not made the count and been knocked out. so dempsey probably should have lost his title rigfht there. and marciano hit harder than firpo.

dempsey was also knocked down by a tunney right hand who doesnt hit hard, and knocked out by fireman flynn (though dempsey migth have taken a dive). so it seems dempsey could be hit with a right hand which marciano had a deadly one.

competetion: Dempsey :
Billy Miske, TOmmy Gibbons( a light heavyweight who took dempsey 15 rounds), Billy Brennan, light heavyweight George Carpentier , luis firpo ( who would have knocked him out if he didnt get help), Jess Willard, and gene tunney( who easily outboxed him twice and even knocked him down, though dempsey was past his prime but still tough).

Marciano : Jersey Joe walcott ( HOF heavyweight who was comingo off an incredible KO win over HOF ezzard Charles and walcott was the champ), Roland Latsraza( legit heavyweight contender, marciano broke his arms) ezzard charles ( HOF and brought his A game in the first fight and showed he was still a tough dangerous opponent) after dominating charles in a rematch when his nose was split in half, Don cockell ( didnt deserve a shot but was british champ) archie MOore (all time KO leader. still at the top of his game, light hevayweight who marciano battered to defeat. moore beat the bets heavyweight contenders and is an all time HOF light heavyweight) and incidently, moore weighed in at 189 marciano at 188. so marciano didnt have te weight advantage on moore like dempsey did on gibbsons who took dempsey 15 rounds. gibbons 175 , dempsey 188.

sweet scientist wrote

I think Dempsey rates higher in 'lifetime achievment'

who retired undefeated??? and IMO marciano faced the better competetion. dempsey get critisized for not facing harry wills, and he didnt defend his title from 1923-1926.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 28 Aug 2005, 09:33

I see Dempsey as having a chance to end things early because he was a fast starter while Rocky was a slow starter but if Rocky gets past the first 3 to 4 rounds I see him grinding Dempsey down and getting either a points decistion or late round ko. I think Marciano had the edge in durability and Dempsey wasn't really a long distance fighter more of an explosive early rounds fighter. It would certainly be a thriller with lots of blood and most likely lots of fouls as well from each side.........

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 28 Aug 2005, 10:15

Although, I think it's in the realm of possibility that Dempsey would win, I always have a problem picking Dempsey in any of these match ups because we're still waiting for a convincing Dempsey victory over a bonafide heavyweight. Beating up big, slow sluggers like Willard and Firpo, barely out pointing one light heavyweight (Gibbons) and getting a boxing lesson twice from another (Tunney) doesn't inspire confidence. Probably his most impressive victory was against Sharkey. Yes, he was behind on points and yes he took advantage of an unusal opportunity but he proved his remarkable power against a tough opponent. Knocking Tunney down is also a real plus for him. But Maricano beat all the fighters available to him and beat them convincingly. Even past their prime Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were much more impressive opponents than Firpo and Willard. I'm going with the Rock, wearing the Mauler down with a relentless attack and getting the K.O in round 8.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 28 Aug 2005, 10:35

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: Dempsey was also knocked down by a tunney right hand who doesnt hit hard

I have to disagree with you there. Tunney was no Foreman, but 47 stoppages in 62 wins is impressive. Though most came at lightheavy, he was still a good puncher at heavy. And anybody who can go as many rounds as Tunney did with Greb and be competitive shows he had the power to keep fighters off him.

And I don't think Dempsey's chin was in reality was as bad as people say. He was knocked down a lot, but that always came when he was coming forward and/or off-balance. Besides the early kayo loss to Jim Flynn and the fight with Firpo( which if he hadn't fallen through the ropes would have easily beaten the count), I don't think Dempsey was in any danger of being stopped or hurt significantly.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 28 Aug 2005, 12:27

sharkeysboy wrote:Although, I think it's in the realm of possibility that Dempsey would win, I always have a problem picking Dempsey in any of these match ups because we're still waiting for a convincing Dempsey victory over a bonafide heavyweight. Beating up big, slow sluggers like Willard and Firpo, barely out pointing one light heavyweight (Gibbons) and getting a boxing lesson twice from another (Tunney) doesn't inspire confidence. Probably his most impressive victory was against Sharkey. Yes, he was behind on points and yes he took advantage of an unusal opportunity but he proved his remarkable power against a tough opponent. Knocking Tunney down is also a real plus for him. But Maricano beat all the fighters available to him and beat them convincingly. Even past their prime Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were much more impressive opponents than Firpo and Willard. I'm going with the Rock, wearing the Mauler down with a relentless attack and getting the K.O in round 8.

While I favour Marciano slightly I think you're doing Dempsey a disservice with what you're saying... he fought plenty of 'big' heavies, in fact probably more 'big' heavies than Marciano did. As for Firpo and Willard being slow... most heavies of that size are slow.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Aug 2005, 13:42

sharkeysboy archie moore and jersey joe walcott were not past their primes. they were both still on the top of there game and if u would like me to back it up with some good facts i will.

so beating a prime jersey joe walcot and archie moore means a lot. dont base walcott and moore beating past their primes based on age. have u ever heard of late bloomers???? ever heard of bernard hopkins????

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Aug 2005, 15:31

silkov i agree about dempseys competetion, and jack dempseys competetion wasnt bad. the fact that he gave jess willard such a beating was a great win and i think jess willard would have done well now a days.
and theres been some speculation that dempsey might have carried tommygibbons.

also dempsey knocked out HOF georges carpentier who was a great light-H. dempsey knocked him out cold in the 4th.

luis de firpo had a heavy punch and not muc helse, but dempsey showed a lot of heart in coming back form nearly getting Koed and and showing his incredible aggresion and knocking out firpo.

and i think dempsey would have knocked out harry wills. dempsey loved fighting the big guys. he took em apart. marciano was good against big guys as well.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 28 Aug 2005, 17:15

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:silkov i agree about dempseys competetion, and jack dempseys competetion wasnt bad. the fact that he gave jess willard such a beating was a great win and i think jess willard would have done well now a days.
and theres been some speculation that dempsey might have carried tommygibbons.

also dempsey knocked out HOF georges carpentier who was a great light-H. dempsey knocked him out cold in the 4th.

luis de firpo had a heavy punch and not muc helse, but dempsey showed a lot of heart in coming back form nearly getting Koed and and showing his incredible aggresion and knocking out firpo.

and i think dempsey would have knocked out harry wills. dempsey loved fighting the big guys. he took em apart. marciano was good against big guys as well.

Willard was actually quite mobile for such a big guy and had a good jab, he was no bum like some people beleive.
Not sure if Dempsey would have beaten Willis at his prime... Willis would have been the best fighter Dempsey faced at his prime he was a great fighter.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 29 Aug 2005, 10:40

moore might have been at his prime, but he was also naturally a light heavyweight. and i think i would have to rate tunney a little higher then jersey joe and ezzard. hes often overlooked and often unfairly critisized for the long count, in which he defeated the most popular boxer of the era, and i wouldnt hesitate to say the most popular boxer ever... im not taking anything away from marciano, but dempseys devistating left hook would be like nothing the rock had ever seen before. plus... dempsey was irish

no way is he losing to an italian

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 Aug 2005, 12:25

are u seruous rory??? rocky hated the irish lol. theres no way he would lose to an irishman.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 29 Aug 2005, 13:06

Hated? certainly not! surely you meant "held in low esteem", or "felt no compassion for" or perhaps "thought little of".

Never has there been hate between fighters, am I right? It's all purely proffesional. Right? At least that's the way I always thought. Could I have gotten this wrong somehow?

Discontent between Irish and Italian? It can't be! Irish and English now that's an entirely different kettle of fish. I have heard rumours that there were some strain on goodwill on that count.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 Aug 2005, 14:06

i was partly joking and i partly wasnt.

in rocky biography, his closest friends were italian and he never really hung out with irish people or seem to like them. He was brought up as an italian, cuase his parents were both born in italy and didnt speak english well. it seemed kind of like italians vs irish the way rocky lived. the italians seemed to have a grudge against the irish and visa versa.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 31 Aug 2005, 07:07

sharkeysboy wrote:Although, I think it's in the realm of possibility that Dempsey would win, I always have a problem picking Dempsey in any of these match ups because we're still waiting for a convincing Dempsey victory over a bonafide heavyweight. Beating up big, slow sluggers like Willard and Firpo, barely out pointing one light heavyweight (Gibbons) and getting a boxing lesson twice from another (Tunney) doesn't inspire confidence. Probably his most impressive victory was against Sharkey. Yes, he was behind on points and yes he took advantage of an unusal opportunity but he proved his remarkable power against a tough opponent. Knocking Tunney down is also a real plus for him. But Maricano beat all the fighters available to him and beat them convincingly. Even past their prime Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were much more impressive opponents than Firpo and Willard. I'm going with the Rock, wearing the Mauler down with a relentless attack and getting the K.O in round 8.

Sharkey

I take your point regarding Jack. Although I do think that he did fight top competition before winning the title. He really took the division on. The problem I have is that he didn't face black challengers once eh became champion, especially Wills. I know Jack signed for the fight and openly admitted that he'd have lost to some of the top black fighters of his day.

In this one I think we have two all action fighters fightin to a standstill. Dempsey takes the early rounds and Rocky the later rounds. I give the edge to Dempsey becasue he was much quicker but saying that speed might not be such an issue in this fight. If Jack lands early and busts Rocky up (cuts etc) then it migth be enough for him to stay on top. It's clsoe though and either man could win.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 31 Aug 2005, 09:47

It's like I said. I see Dempsey as the favourite early and Marciano the favourite the longer the fight goes on. I'd give Marciano the edge in durability and strength, while Jack was that much faster and was more difficult to hit. This is the sort of match up which could expand into a 3 fight series quite easily with each fight being closely contested.....

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 31 Aug 2005, 12:22

haha okay okay we can just pretend their both asian or somethign so we cant play the ethnic card.