Can Roy Jones beat Antonio Tarver?

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 29 Aug 2005, 18:00

It's an intriguing one isn't it? Can RJJ recapture past glories and return to his dazzling form by beating Antonio Tarver? Remember how Sugar Ray Leonard was all washed up after retiring in 1984 only to put on a fantastic display 3 years later to beat Hagler?

I've got a little feeling that Jones could do it. But it's a long shot, I know.

Any thoughts?

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 29 Aug 2005, 18:49

No chance what so ever of Roy Jones doing the impossible and pulling it off.

He didn`t deserve to get the verdict in the first fight against Tarver.
The second one he got chilled...anyone can get caught and it may have been possible to over-look this....but after the Johnson KO :(

Jones is one of the top 3 middles ever, if not one of the top 3 boxers ever, but his time is past.

Robinson recaptured the title because he still had devastating power and the skills to deliver it.
Leonard fought smart, against a fading and faded fighter...and both of the Rays chin was still secure at the time.

Jones gets KO`ed....be it early or late its there waiting for him, I just hope he runs and doesn`t get hurt, the man in his time was a `Superman` and a super fighter but now deludes himself...and others

nas7232 · Post by **nas7232** » 29 Aug 2005, 19:55

A very long shot indeed. If he trainned the way he did for his previous 2 fights then he will probably get KO'ed :( . The problem with RJJ is that he relied on his unique style. That style can't be done with a deteriated man loosing form. He has lost alot of his reaction skills and he'll be open to them big shots.

I just hope he don't get knocked out.

A long shot it may be but there is still a slight possibility he can pull it off with his dad in his corner.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 29 Aug 2005, 20:27

No, no, no. That's three no's.

Wait a minute...

NO

4 no's.

Bet the universe on Tarver.

JimmyJamJerusalem · Post by **JimmyJamJerusalem** » 29 Aug 2005, 21:12

Alot of people think the reckless control of his body size was the main factor in his demise. There are hints that his increase in bulk was aided by a certain little hormone drug beginning with S (allegedly). Coming from a course like that will leave you sluggish, and cumbersome, but if he has trained that off, and got plenty of quality sparring then why can't one of the greatest of all time beat the rather ordinary Tarver?

If the odds are good, I might bung a few quid on the fornicator.

Daruf · Post by **Daruf** » 30 Aug 2005, 00:50

Personally i suspect he always had a dodgy chin but had the speed and skill to avoid getting hit ... i barely ever seen him get hit flush on the chin during his best years.
Most likely his chin hasnt gotten much better now that hes actually at a pretty advanced age ... and he doesnt posess the speed anymore to avoid getting hit...

Actually this is the reasson why i suspected Darius would have beaten him if they would have ever fought ... DM had a granite chin (wich he needed considering his style)
And yes i know this isnt a popular stance nor will many aggree with me.

Anyhow back to the topic i think Tarver will win by KO.

steve richards · Post by **steve richards** » 30 Aug 2005, 05:02

Jones will win this if his body is in tip top condition, he looked very poor in every fight after going up to heavy, his body was messed up putting all the muscle on then taking it off again, Tarver has looked ordinary since beating Jones the first time, should be a good fight this one.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 30 Aug 2005, 08:33

But Jones body has always looked in excellent condition, even for his last 3fights.
Its the engine that works it thats the problem

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 30 Aug 2005, 08:41

I think RJJ has a chance, you can't totally rule out someone who was that brilliant although I do agree with those who point out his style was based on speed and reflexes which would be the first to go as he reaches the other side of that hill.

I wonder if he can acknowledge this and come up with a totally different strategy?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 30 Aug 2005, 10:26

All he needs to do is get back to the way he was in the first Tarver fight, he won something like 7-5 or 8-4 on my card. He knows he needs to train his ass off for this 1 and I think he will. He can't try to bomb Tarer out he needs to stick with finding the straight right as he was in the first fight. I think he'll win without dominating unless father times made Roy his bitch.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 30 Aug 2005, 10:42

tonyevs wrote:No chance what so ever of Roy Jones doing the impossible and pulling it off.

He didn`t deserve to get the verdict in the first fight against Tarver.
The second one he got chilled...anyone can get caught and it may have been possible to over-look this....but after the Johnson KO :(

Jones is one of the top 3 middles ever, if not one of the top 3 boxers ever, but his time is past.

Robinson recaptured the title because he still had devastating power and the skills to deliver it.
Leonard fought smart, against a fading and faded fighter...and both of the Rays chin was still secure at the time.

Jones gets KO`ed....be it early or late its there waiting for him, I just hope he runs and doesn`t get hurt, the man in his time was a `Superman` and a super fighter but now deludes himself...and others

Top 3 middles ever? You're out of your gourd mate, Jones had how many title defences?

In terms of natural talent and athleticism Roy is one of the very best, but the quality of his title reigns doesn't compare to the heyday of the middleweights or even Light heavyweight where he stayed longest.

Ray Leonard and Ray Robinson were far better all around fighters, and a lot more orthodox in style. Ray Leonard was flash, but he also had very sound boxing skills to accompany the foot and handspeed.

Roy seems unable to adapt as his reflexes and workrate have declined, and that makes him not just an ordinary fighter, but a poor one. He was absolutely awful against Johnson, shot to pieces.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 30 Aug 2005, 10:47

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 30 Aug 2005, 10:50

Out of interest, how many "back to the well one more time" fights ever end up with the comebacking fighter winning?

I can't think of too many. Perhaps Ali/Spinks II.

I can't think of many more off the top of my head.

Like Tyso, people can't accept that RJJ's time has come and gone. He is going to take a beating at the hands of Tarver, I am pretty certain. I can't see any way back for a fighter who looked so risibly shot against GJ

He looked like he was wading in treacle for most of that fight

Slapsie

nas7232 · Post by **nas7232** » 30 Aug 2005, 11:01

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
tonyevs wrote:No chance what so ever of Roy Jones doing the impossible and pulling it off.

He didn`t deserve to get the verdict in the first fight against Tarver.
The second one he got chilled...anyone can get caught and it may have been possible to over-look this....but after the Johnson KO :(

Jones is one of the top 3 middles ever, if not one of the top 3 boxers ever, but his time is past.

Robinson recaptured the title because he still had devastating power and the skills to deliver it.
Leonard fought smart, against a fading and faded fighter...and both of the Rays chin was still secure at the time.

Jones gets KO`ed....be it early or late its there waiting for him, I just hope he runs and doesn`t get hurt, the man in his time was a `Superman` and a super fighter but now deludes himself...and others
Top 3 middles ever? You're out of your gourd mate, Jones had how many title defences?

In terms of natural talent and athleticism Roy is one of the very best, but the quality of his title reigns doesn't compare to the heyday of the middleweights or even Light heavyweight where he stayed longest.

Ray Leonard and Ray Robinson were far better all around fighters, and a lot more orthodox in style. Ray Leonard was flash, but he also had very sound boxing skills to accompany the foot and handspeed.

Roy seems unable to adapt as his reflexes and workrate have declined, and that makes him not just an ordinary fighter, but a poor one. He was absolutely awful against Johnson, shot to pieces.

A fair arguement however, RJJ imo is in the top 5 middleweights of all time when he was in his peak. He didn't need that many title defences to show how great he was.

HeavyHitters · Post by **HeavyHitters** » 30 Aug 2005, 12:01

Umm... Dude, Roy ALREADY beat Tarver the first time around. So your answer is 100% YES!! Duh!!!!

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 30 Aug 2005, 12:07

Slapsie Maxie wrote:Out of interest, how many "back to the well one more time" fights ever end up with the comebacking fighter winning?

Leonard and Duran managed it - who knows, Jones might be able to pull it out of the bag.

You can be sure that with the world and his brother writing him off, he'll be motivated and training like never before....and Tarver is not exactly Mr Consitent.

One big left hook could do it, and that goes for both of em

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 30 Aug 2005, 12:16

now i think of it, tarver KO1 or 2 might be an excellent bet.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 30 Aug 2005, 12:17

Jones couldn't have looked much worse against Johnson, the conditioning needed to work hard enough to stop the champion rushing at him just wasn't there. It was really strange to see him forced to the ropes from the first bell, unable to throw an attack back (or he just couldn't risk using up stamina so early) even though Johnson was well open to it. When he did launch the odd body shot the speed and accuracy was there.

But we can only speculate now, none of us knows how this training camp has gone. One thing for certain is that Jones has been badly stung by his drop in popularity (thanks to the many pathetic excuses for boxing supporters over in the U.S), he must be in better condition this time.

I hope Jones wins, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest he could pull it off. We're not dealing with a legend here in Tarver. Far from it. The way Roy got KO'd last time though is a big concern, can't really make an excuse for that.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 30 Aug 2005, 12:44

I just have this sneaky feeling Jones can do it, i don't know why but i think he can...whether he WILL or not is debatable. However in regards to the first fight between them i initially thought Tarver was robbed blind but later when observing the tape and from a different angle (HBO version) i had Jones a fair winner.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 30 Aug 2005, 12:56

Slapsie Maxie wrote:Like Tyson, people can't accept that RJJ's time has come and gone.

Maybe because in order for some fans to accept that their hero's youth has passed them by, they have to accept their own youth is passing/past them by as well/ Not an easy thing to do.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 30 Aug 2005, 13:13

MightyWarrior wrote:
Slapsie Maxie wrote:Out of interest, how many "back to the well one more time" fights ever end up with the comebacking fighter winning?
Leonard and Duran managed it - who knows, Jones might be able to pull it out of the bag.

You can be sure that with the world and his brother writing him off, he'll be motivated and training like never before....and Tarver is not exactly Mr Consitent.

One big left hook could do it, and that goes for both of em

Leonard and Duran hadn't been knocked cold twice in a row, and they were better all around fighters by far than Jones. Duran had an incredible chin that only ever failed him against one of the hardest punchers P4P in history, and was a great defensive fighter to boot. Leonard still had excellent footspeed even late in his career, something which seems to have totally deserted Jones late on.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 31 Aug 2005, 06:34

That's true, it's hard to overlook those two bad knockouts - the WBC are calling for a brain scan apparently...

Still, he's had a year off and that could be a good thing - plus Roy senior is back training him, which could provide a huge mental boost.

It's ironic that his Dad, who came in for so much critisism early on for over protecting Roy, is back on board for his most dangerous fight by far.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 31 Aug 2005, 06:37

MightyWarrior wrote:That's true, it's hard to overlook those two bad knockouts - the WBC are calling for a brain scan apparently...

Still, he's had a year off and that could be a good thing - plus Roy senior is back training him, which could provide a huge mental boost.

It's ironic that his Dad, who came in for so much critisism early on for over protecting Roy, is back on board for his most dangerous fight by far.

rightly so, but wouldn't he have had a scan following the fights in any case?

It's the Johnson KO which worries me the most, Roy looked absolutely poleaxed by what wasn't even a particularld hard blow. I know it was high on the head, but christ, he was as stiff as a board for about 5 minutes, it was very disturbing.

I can understand Roy not wanting his career to end like that, and I would be happy to see him turn it around, but I fear we are going to see another massacre.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 31 Aug 2005, 06:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:That's true, it's hard to overlook those two bad knockouts - the WBC are calling for a brain scan apparently...

Still, he's had a year off and that could be a good thing - plus Roy senior is back training him, which could provide a huge mental boost.

It's ironic that his Dad, who came in for so much critisism early on for over protecting Roy, is back on board for his most dangerous fight by far.
rightly so, but wouldn't he have had a scan following the fights in any case?

It's the Johnson KO which worries me the most, Roy looked absolutely poleaxed by what wasn't even a particularld hard blow. I know it was high on the head, but christ, he was as stiff as a board for about 5 minutes, it was very disturbing.

I can understand Roy not wanting his career to end like that, and I would be happy to see him turn it around, but I fear we are going to see another massacre.

I just dont see how he wins. Tarver is nothing special but Jones is shot to bits. He still has the occasional glimpse of what he had before but he just cant pull the trigger anymore - a sure sign of a shot fighter.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 31 Aug 2005, 07:00

Yeah, in the rare times he let his hands go against Johnson, the speed was there, but he just kept waiting for opportunities he couldn't exploit in time.

It reminded me of Holyfield against Toney.

Can Roy Jones beat Antonio Tarver?

Can Roy Jones beat Antonio Tarver?

He Already Did!!