rating heavyweight champions chins

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 Aug 2005, 00:12

heavyweight champs top 15 chins

1. Muhammad ali - was never knocked out. faced some of the most murderous punchers in history. took the best shavers and foreman had to offer. got up after being hit with a flush frazier left hook.

2. Larry Holmes- never knocked out in his prime. got up after being hit by a flush shavers right hand. got up after being knocked down by renaldo snipes. took some heavy punches from weaver and bonecrusher and cooney and shook them off. even in early ninties, hoylfield and mercer and mcccail couldnt knock him out. only mike tyson could knock him out and thats reasonable.

3. Evander Holyfield- got up from a knockdown from big puncher bert cooper. he took foremans big bombs, and never went down. got hit a lot but never went down against qawi in the gruelling 15 rounder. got hit by bombs from bowe in their first fight got up from a knockdown. he was stopped only once, by bowe when he had heart problems that affected his stamina. he hasnt bene knocked out since and survived getting knockdwon from mike tyson and evander hoylfield.

4. George Foreman- not knocked down until he fought ali. he was never really hurt before he faced ali. only reason knocked down against ali cause he was so tired and mentally not there. survived two knockdowns from big puncher ron lyle. knocked down by jimmy young but he went down fro, fatigue not a punch. never knocked down in his comeback which lasted 10 years, he took hard punches fromm morrison, holyfield, cooney, and moorer and never went down.

5. Rocky Marciano - only knocked down twice in career. took a lot more punches early in career and never went down. camrine vingo hit him hard and rock never went down. he was knocked down by a walcott left hook, which a year earlier knocked charles out cold. walcott could hit hard and marciano took a flush walcott left hook and bounced back up not that hurt. against KO artist archie moore, he was floored him with a hard right and got up instantly and actually came back into moore immediately who has the most knockouts of all time. and moore the all time knockout leader wasnt close to finisahing him. also theres a picture that shows when moore hit marciano he was on one foot and if marciano hadnt been off balanced he probably would not have gone down. anyone who wants to see the pic ask. marciano was never badly hurt in his career, one of the few heavyweight champion to never be in danger of getting knocked out.

6. Joe Frazier - knocked down in 2nd fight when novice, survived two knockdowns when still raw against decent puncher oscar bonevna. got up 6 times after foremans big bombs. foreamn couldnt put him down for the count. took some hard punches form quarry, ali and manuel ramos(who almost floored him) and never went down. in his 2nd match vs foreman, he was floored and stopped but was not counted out. frazier was never counted out in his career. took many punches form ali in all three ocntests, and in the third fight when his eyes were closed, he still didnt go down. frazier knocked down 11 timed in career .

7. Joe Louis- early in career, schmelling knocked him down with his hard right hand in the 4th and louis got up and it took schmelling 8 more rounds of big right hands to finally knock joe louis out in the only time he was knocked out in his prime. louis was knocked down other times by braddock, buddy baer, hard punching tony galento. and when he started to age, he got up from two knockdowns against hard punching walcott, and got up from another knockdown in the rematch vs walcott. when past his prime, he did take some hard shots from marciano but was knocked out for the 2nd time in his career.

8. Sonny Liston - knocked down by marty marshall only time knocked down in his prime. refused to go down after breaking his nose and taking big punishment in the 1st round vs hard punching cleveland williams.
knocked out in 2nd ali fight by one punch that wasnt that hard. i think liston could have gotten up, but either was paid to take a dive, or just wanst there mentallyl alis punch was fast and sharp but not enough to keep down a liston who had survived cleveland willaims best punches. liston later on when past his prime knocked out cold by former sparring parnter leotis martin. its hard to rate listons chin, cause we never know why he went down and why he couldnt get up from that ali punch, he did get up but he got up 14 seconds later.

9. Gene Tunney - only knocked down once in his career and it was by a past his prime dempsey who still had power. dempsey hit him with a flurry and hard left hook to put him down. controversy over long count, but u can cleary see tunney was looking at the referee and taking avdantage of the count, cause at 9 he immediately got up. never went down in the betaing he took from harry greb.

10. Jack Johnson - he was knocked out early in career by joe choynski, but never knocked out in prime. he was only knocked down in his prime when middleweight stanley ketchell floore him with a right to the jaw. he got up, but still was floored by a middleweight hard hitting or not. johnson never really faced murderous punchers so his chin remains unproven. he was knocked out by jess willard when past his prime but johnson could have taken a dive.

11. Mike tyson- when he was in his prime with kevin rooney, he was never knocked down. he took a coupel hard shots form boencrsusher and tony tucker but was never close to going down. when he left rooney, he didnt use head fakes as much and got hit more often and took a hard pucnh from bruno, and then finally douglas knocked him out. he took hard punches from ruddock and wasnt floored. hoylfield floored him with a body shot when he was off balanced, and he shows a decent chin when he took lennox lewis punches for 8 rounds before getting KOed. during prime, he wasnt close to being knocked out or going down besides douglas. mike possesed a decent chin.

12. Jack Dempsey - early in career, johnny sudenberg knocked him down 9 times. he was knocked out once, but it was suspected he took a dive from jim flynn. he survived two knockdowns from hard punching luis firpo but most likely would have been counted out if wasnt helped back in the ring. only other time besides johnson he was knocked down in his prime was against firpo. when past his prime, was knocked down for a split second by gene tunney.

13. Ezzard Charles ezzard gets credit for facing some brutally hard punchers and surviving a lot of them. in his prime he was knocked out twice, by lyoyd marshall who was a big puncher and jersye joe walcott. after being Kayoed by marshall, charles was not knocked out for 9 years.
during those 9 years he survived knockdowns from jimmy bivins, lyoyd marshall, fitzie fistpactrick, and charles took punches form hard punching elmer ray. charles also faced big puncher bob satterfield. ezzrad was knocked out cold by one of the best left hooks ever thrown. walcott was a hard puncher and hit charles with the perfect left hook with knocked him out. charles then in the 1st marciano fight took one of the hardest punchers the full 15 rounds. he survived marcianos bombs espoecially in the later rounds and never went down. in the rematch charles was knocked down in the 2nd, and then knocked down by a right hand in the 8th and was caught with a 6 punch combo later in th 8th by marciano which put him out for the count. charles gets credit for facing many big punchers and only getting knocked out a couple times in his best days and then by marciano.

14.Jersey Joe Walcott- knocked out early in career when he was inexperienced and malnourished against abe simon, tiger jack fox, and al ettore. when he was in his prime, he was knocked out by joe louis and rocky marciano who were both all time punchers. against joe louis, louis was aging but still not shot, and walcott was not floored in the 1st match. in the 2nd fight, walcott got cocky and louis nailed him wit ha 6 punch combo in the 11th which knocked him out. walcott also took hard punching elmer rays best punches. walcott was floored in 9th round of 2nd charles fight by hard charles left hook but got up. he then was knocked out cold in the 13th round by a marciano right hand which was one of the hardest punchers ever landed. in the rematch he was knocked out asgain by marciano right hand and he could have got up but blacked out and by the time he got his senses together it was too late. walcott was knocked out twice in his prime, but against big heavbweight punchers and walcott showed he could take some hard shots as he took them against elmer ray, louis, charles, and marciano.

15. James Jeffries- chin to unproven. he was never knocked down, except in an exihibition match. faced hard punch bob fitzimmons but fitzimmons was almost 37 and had been inactive for 2 years, and was past his prime and fitz didnt have his same power. jeffries never faced a hard puncher. tom sharley wasa decent puncher and jeffries took his best punches but its tough to rate his chin. jeffries gets credit for never going down in a real fight, but he was knocked down once, but barely hurt as i hear.

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 29 Aug 2005, 00:43

Ali and Maricano. They had the hall of fame chins.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 29 Aug 2005, 09:40

Hey Blocky nicely done. Not sure I agree 100% but you focus on the facts and state them well. Of course your preachin to the choir regarding Ali's whiskers.

I could be wrong but I think you may have a lot of flak thrown your way because of all the more modern names your throwing in at or near the top. I'm thinking people will take you to task for that. But hang in there I think you did a good job.

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 29 Aug 2005, 16:32

Great list IMO Tyson should be no where near that list though, He was never tested in the early part of his career, sh*t most of his fights only went one round or two and when he his chin was tested he proved he might of been Iron Mike but his wiskers were made of tin.

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 29 Aug 2005, 20:05

This issue seems extremely subjective and in some cases like Marciano's the chin must remain a bit of a mystery due to not having been clocked by devastating punchers.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 Aug 2005, 20:31

Marciano was clocked by Jersey Joe Walcott was a great heavyweight who had a lot of power. Id consider walcott a big puncher. Walcott could knock u out with one punch and marciano took a hard leftt hook from him.

and Moore may not be a big one punch Knockout guy, but he could hit hard and he knew hwo to finish u. moore hit him hard when marcianoi was off balance and moore is one of the greatest finishers of all time but couldnt finish marciano after that.

i agree marciano didnt face a foreman or liston, but the only big puncher out there that was close to them is bob satterfield. and marciano and satterfield were gonna fight but satterfield blew it and was knocked out by rex layne. and layne ended up facing marciano and marciano knocked him out.

but u saw he could take walcott's best and walcott was a great puncher and could take u out with the left hook, not to mention he had a hrd right and jab.

i found it the hardest to rate the old guys, cause guys like jeffries never faced a murderous puncher and when he faced the best puncher he did up to date, he was knocked down 3 times by jack johnson but jeffries was past hir prime so we never know.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 29 Aug 2005, 20:37

ShoeShine wrote:Great list IMO Tyson should be no where near that list though, He was never tested in the early part of his career, sh*t most of his fights only went one round or two and when he his chin was tested he proved he might of been Iron Mike but his wiskers were made of tin.

Watch Tyson vs. Bruno, Douglas and Tucker.

With Douglas he may have been knocked out but he got beat seriously bad before he went down.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 29 Aug 2005, 22:04

marciano wass clocked by jersey joe and stayed up.... braddock got CLOCKED by max baer several times, and took a beating from joe louis who is one of the hardest punchers of all time... why is he not up there?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 Aug 2005, 23:03

rory, I guess Bradock could be on the list. u can make a case for him. i judge based on whoel career and braddock was only knocked out twice, by lou scozza and joe louis. all the other fights he lost were by decision so that shows he had a good chin and survived getting knocked out.

does anyone know how many timee braddock was knocked down???

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 29 Aug 2005, 23:04

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:rory, I guess Bradock could be on the list. u can make a case for him. i judge based on whoel career and braddock was only knocked out twice, by lou scozza and joe louis. all the other fights he lost were by decision so that shows he had a good chin and survived getting knocked out.

does anyone know how many timee braddock was knocked down???

Not sure, but Rory would've put him on the list no matter the category.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 30 Aug 2005, 22:59

grimm wrote

Not sure, but Rory would've put him on the list no matter the category.

thats true

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 30 Aug 2005, 23:36

haha.. braddock was only KO one time in his life.. the other was a tko he never actually hit the canvas... im not sureexactly how many times he was knocked down..i bet u it wasnt more than 8

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 31 Aug 2005, 02:18

..good thread. too sleepy right now to get into it, except to point out that marty marshall broke liston's JAW in their first fight...story (confirmed by newspaper report) is that liston laughed at a move marshall made and marty clocked him while his mouth was open. liston went on to finish the fight and lose the decision and later kayo and decision marshall in subsequent fights.

this may be the last time anyone every saw liston laugh in public.

i saw marty marshall fight, (not in the fights in question) and he was a real cutie....had a bag of tricks...very elusive.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 31 Aug 2005, 14:33

...oops....i may be mistaken in my last sentence on the marty marshall post. i'm not certain how that i did see him. i saw herbie moore...a young prospect who was rushed .....whom marshall beat, but that was by kayo and the fight i recall was a boxer's decision win.

in fact i may be mixed up and thinking of two totally different fighters....tommy yarosz against a guy named davey feld, who looked like victor mature but fought more like rita hayworth.

whatever....the other stuff about marshall and liston is correct.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 31 Aug 2005, 16:01

did anyone notice that dempsey made the list twice>?..good chin eh?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 31 Aug 2005, 18:34

Jeffries should probably be a little higher and Louis and Marciano a little lower. Louis did get knocked down several times and while he usually got up, he really shouldn't be rated as having a great chin.
I guess I disagree with a couple of points. I think that Jeffries did enough to show he had a great chin. Sharkey was a big puncher who scored ko's out 37 out of 54 fights, including some over some good opposition. Jeffries was never knocked down against him in 45 rounds of fighting. I think fitzsimmons could still punch hard when he foguht Jeffries, and Choynski also had a reputation as a big puncher.

As for Marciano he was only knocked down twice. But I guess I would have to disagree with the opinon about Walcott's punching power. He only scored 33 out of 72 bouts. Except for the one against Charles, the Ko's he did score were almost all against ordinary competetion. Watching him on film, he doesn't seem to be that big of a puncher. During his career, he had more of a reputation as being boxer than as a slugger. I'm not saying he was Tony Tubbs or Chris Byrd, but saying that Marciano took Walcott's best punches really isn't saying that much IMO.

As for the knockdown against Archie Moore, yes Archie was a great puncher, but really only at lightheavyweight. He really doesn't have that impressive of a ko record against heavyweights. Bob Baker is probably the only heavyweight of any note that Moore stopped.

Marciano really didn't have to face big punchers, assuming that you don't count a washed up Joe Louis.

I do agree that Braddock had a good chin, and could be considered. If you count Oliver McCall as a champion, he should be considered as well.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Sep 2005, 01:09

ampling app. good points.

about walcotss punching power, u have to remember he wasnt a contender hin his twenties, he was malnourished, didnt have proer management and didnt trian alot. things changed when he met flex boccachio and he became nourished for the first time and started to train more and really developed his own stlye of boxing with a great shuffle. he was very smart. he didnt reach his peak until 33 and from 33-38 years and thats when he really showed his power and knocked out some top contenders and champion.
u see walcott had the power but was a defnesive fighter and really backed up a lot and didnt throw to many big bombs as he should have at times. but the ring rated him # 66 all time power punchers. he was a greta puncher, especially with his left hook. he floored joe louis twice in the first fight and again in the 2nd fight. walcott also knocked out harold johnson cold who had a good chin. and walcott knocked out a prime ezzard charles who hadnt been knocked down in years, and walcott did it with one left hook. then walcott also floored rocky marciano with his powerful left hook. i think walcott had underated punching power.

and louis got knocked down by galento and buddy baer both are top 100 punchers in the rings list. and he got up every time. walcott was also a top 100 puncher. so louis was getting knocked out by decnet punchers.

louis also survived 12 rounds getting hit by max scmellins right hand and most poeople wouldnt be able to take that right hand for 12 rounds getting hit 20 times a round with it. and louis was floored by braddock in a 1 count. louis got caught.

but louis got up every time in his knockdowns expect rocky marciano when he was past his prime and marciano was at his best.

jeffries faced one big all time puncher and he had been inactive for 2 years and lost some of his power bob fitzimmons. sharkey was a good puncher, but i rate walcott over sharkey in power punching. jeffries simply did not fight enough to rate his chin high. u saw what happened against jack johnson. johnson might have knocked him out if he was in his prime also.

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 02 Sep 2005, 20:50

Tony Galento wasn't on the top 100 all time list of the greatest puncher in the ring magazine.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 03 Sep 2005, 02:28

kovit...no...but nat fleischer said his left hook was among the hardest ever.....and i don't have the ring 100 handy now, but i'm betting there were some on it that didn't hit as hard as galento.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 04 Sep 2005, 15:26

ShoeShine wrote:Great list IMO Tyson should be no where near that list though, He was never tested in the early part of his career, sh*t most of his fights only went one round or two and when he his chin was tested he proved he might of been Iron Mike but his wiskers were made of tin.

Are you joking??

Ive just watched the first Holyfield fight and Holyfield nailed Tyson with absolutely everything!! Tyson however never went down once. Seriously watch the the end of the round 10 and the start of round 11. Tyson takes an absolutely massive pasting and is still on his feet.

Watch these 2 rounds and Im sure you will revise youre assessment.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 04 Sep 2005, 16:32

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:heavyweight champs top 15 chins

1. Muhammad ali - was never knocked out. faced some of the most murderous punchers in history. took the best shavers and foreman had to offer. got up after being hit with a flush frazier left hook.

2. Larry Holmes- never knocked out in his prime. got up after being hit by a flush shavers right hand. got up after being knocked down by renaldo snipes. took some heavy punches from weaver and bonecrusher and cooney and shook them off. even in early ninties, hoylfield and mercer and mcccail couldnt knock him out. only mike tyson could knock him out and thats reasonable.

3. Evander Holyfield- got up from a knockdown from big puncher bert cooper. he took foremans big bombs, and never went down. got hit a lot but never went down against qawi in the gruelling 15 rounder. got hit by bombs from bowe in their first fight got up from a knockdown. he was stopped only once, by bowe when he had heart problems that affected his stamina. he hasnt bene knocked out since and survived getting knockdwon from mike tyson and evander hoylfield.

4. George Foreman- not knocked down until he fought ali. he was never really hurt before he faced ali. only reason knocked down against ali cause he was so tired and mentally not there. survived two knockdowns from big puncher ron lyle. knocked down by jimmy young but he went down fro, fatigue not a punch. never knocked down in his comeback which lasted 10 years, he took hard punches fromm morrison, holyfield, cooney, and moorer and never went down.

5. Rocky Marciano - only knocked down twice in career. took a lot more punches early in career and never went down. camrine vingo hit him hard and rock never went down. he was knocked down by a walcott left hook, which a year earlier knocked charles out cold. walcott could hit hard and marciano took a flush walcott left hook and bounced back up not that hurt. against KO artist archie moore, he was floored him with a hard right and got up instantly and actually came back into moore immediately who has the most knockouts of all time. and moore the all time knockout leader wasnt close to finisahing him. also theres a picture that shows when moore hit marciano he was on one foot and if marciano hadnt been off balanced he probably would not have gone down. anyone who wants to see the pic ask. marciano was never badly hurt in his career, one of the few heavyweight champion to never be in danger of getting knocked out.

6. Joe Frazier - knocked down in 2nd fight when novice, survived two knockdowns when still raw against decent puncher oscar bonevna. got up 6 times after foremans big bombs. foreamn couldnt put him down for the count. took some hard punches form quarry, ali and manuel ramos(who almost floored him) and never went down. in his 2nd match vs foreman, he was floored and stopped but was not counted out. frazier was never counted out in his career. took many punches form ali in all three ocntests, and in the third fight when his eyes were closed, he still didnt go down. frazier knocked down 11 timed in career .

7. Joe Louis- early in career, schmelling knocked him down with his hard right hand in the 4th and louis got up and it took schmelling 8 more rounds of big right hands to finally knock joe louis out in the only time he was knocked out in his prime. louis was knocked down other times by braddock, buddy baer, hard punching tony galento. and when he started to age, he got up from two knockdowns against hard punching walcott, and got up from another knockdown in the rematch vs walcott. when past his prime, he did take some hard shots from marciano but was knocked out for the 2nd time in his career.

8. Sonny Liston - knocked down by marty marshall only time knocked down in his prime. refused to go down after breaking his nose and taking big punishment in the 1st round vs hard punching cleveland williams.
knocked out in 2nd ali fight by one punch that wasnt that hard. i think liston could have gotten up, but either was paid to take a dive, or just wanst there mentallyl alis punch was fast and sharp but not enough to keep down a liston who had survived cleveland willaims best punches. liston later on when past his prime knocked out cold by former sparring parnter leotis martin. its hard to rate listons chin, cause we never know why he went down and why he couldnt get up from that ali punch, he did get up but he got up 14 seconds later.

9. Gene Tunney - only knocked down once in his career and it was by a past his prime dempsey who still had power. dempsey hit him with a flurry and hard left hook to put him down. controversy over long count, but u can cleary see tunney was looking at the referee and taking avdantage of the count, cause at 9 he immediately got up. never went down in the betaing he took from harry greb.

10. Jack Johnson - he was knocked out early in career by joe choynski, but never knocked out in prime. he was only knocked down in his prime when middleweight stanley ketchell floore him with a right to the jaw. he got up, but still was floored by a middleweight hard hitting or not. johnson never really faced murderous punchers so his chin remains unproven. he was knocked out by jess willard when past his prime but johnson could have taken a dive.

11. Mike tyson- when he was in his prime with kevin rooney, he was never knocked down. he took a coupel hard shots form boencrsusher and tony tucker but was never close to going down. when he left rooney, he didnt use head fakes as much and got hit more often and took a hard pucnh from bruno, and then finally douglas knocked him out. he took hard punches from ruddock and wasnt floored. hoylfield floored him with a body shot when he was off balanced, and he shows a decent chin when he took lennox lewis punches for 8 rounds before getting KOed. during prime, he wasnt close to being knocked out or going down besides douglas. mike possesed a decent chin.

12. Jack Dempsey - early in career, johnny sudenberg knocked him down 9 times. he was knocked out once, but it was suspected he took a dive from jim flynn. he survived two knockdowns from hard punching luis firpo but most likely would have been counted out if wasnt helped back in the ring. only other time besides johnson he was knocked down in his prime was against firpo. when past his prime, was knocked down for a split second by gene tunney.

13. Ezzard Charles ezzard gets credit for facing some brutally hard punchers and surviving a lot of them. in his prime he was knocked out twice, by lyoyd marshall who was a big puncher and jersye joe walcott. after being Kayoed by marshall, charles was not knocked out for 9 years.
during those 9 years he survived knockdowns from jimmy bivins, lyoyd marshall, fitzie fistpactrick, and charles took punches form hard punching elmer ray. charles also faced big puncher bob satterfield. ezzrad was knocked out cold by one of the best left hooks ever thrown. walcott was a hard puncher and hit charles with the perfect left hook with knocked him out. charles then in the 1st marciano fight took one of the hardest punchers the full 15 rounds. he survived marcianos bombs espoecially in the later rounds and never went down. in the rematch charles was knocked down in the 2nd, and then knocked down by a right hand in the 8th and was caught with a 6 punch combo later in th 8th by marciano which put him out for the count. charles gets credit for facing many big punchers and only getting knocked out a couple times in his best days and then by marciano.

14.Jersey Joe Walcott- knocked out early in career when he was inexperienced and malnourished against abe simon, tiger jack fox, and al ettore. when he was in his prime, he was knocked out by joe louis and rocky marciano who were both all time punchers. against joe louis, louis was aging but still not shot, and walcott was not floored in the 1st match. in the 2nd fight, walcott got cocky and louis nailed him wit ha 6 punch combo in the 11th which knocked him out. walcott also took hard punching elmer rays best punches. walcott was floored in 9th round of 2nd charles fight by hard charles left hook but got up. he then was knocked out cold in the 13th round by a marciano right hand which was one of the hardest punchers ever landed. in the rematch he was knocked out asgain by marciano right hand and he could have got up but blacked out and by the time he got his senses together it was too late. walcott was knocked out twice in his prime, but against big heavbweight punchers and walcott showed he could take some hard shots as he took them against elmer ray, louis, charles, and marciano.

15. James Jeffries- chin to unproven. he was never knocked down, except in an exihibition match. faced hard punch bob fitzimmons but fitzimmons was almost 37 and had been inactive for 2 years, and was past his prime and fitz didnt have his same power. jeffries never faced a hard puncher. tom sharley wasa decent puncher and jeffries took his best punches but its tough to rate his chin. jeffries gets credit for never going down in a real fight, but he was knocked down once, but barely hurt as i hear.

Come on, how can you only have Jeffries clear back at 15? A flash knockdown in an exhibition match and you question his chin?!? Did you know Marciano was knocked down in a sparring session leading up to his fight with Cockell? Does that mean he had a questionable chin? Of course not!
Jeffries' chin was certainly not unproven. Tom Sharkey and Bob Fitzsimmons were two of the hardest punchers alive and both of them hammered Jeffries with all they had time and time again and couldn't dent him. Jeffries' chin is the #1 of all time among all the heavyweight champions, in my opinion.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Sep 2005, 16:50

marcianofrazier i know about the cockell sparring session knockdown. btw, would u happen to know the sparring partner who decked the rock???

i did not make my basis on the exihibition knockdown or the johnson 3 knockdowns . jeffries only fought 19 times, and i would have liked to see him fight more fights which would really test his chin over a long period of time. bob fitzimmons was inactive for 2 years and by now was showing signs of decline and fitzimmons was one of the hardest punchers p4p but he was only 168. its not like he was archie moore who weighed in at 188lb and was used to facing heayweights and light-H. fitz was a middleweight and when ur 168, weight tends to matter a little more, but fitz showed he has the power to deal with heavyweights. back to the point, fitz lossed some of his power when he faced jeffries, and i wonder how jeffries would have taken fitz punches at his peak. jeffries probably deserves ot be higher, and he did take good shoits form tom sharkey but i wouldnt rate him in my top 25 heavyweights. i would have loved to see jeffries face black men and also stay around and fight marvin hart, tommy burns, and jack johnson while he was still in his prime. his chin is really untested. but i agree i probably gave hi ma raw deal and he should be higher.

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