Most impressive five year period?

[Crease]

In the history of boxing, which fighters have had the most impressive five year period in your opinion?

You can base the criteria on titles won - or standard of opposition they defeated... But wouldn't it be better if we could find answers where boxers have done both.

[Crease]

For me Mike Tyson's period of dominance is the Heavyweight Division was very impressive. While it strictly wasn't five years long - it is remarkable nontheless: The period I am talking about is: November 1986 through to July 1989:

Nov 1986 - beat Trevor Berick for the WBC Title
Mar 1987 - beat "Bonecrusher" Smith to unify with the WBA Title
May 1987 - beat Pinklon Thomas is a joint title defence
Aug 1987 - beat Tony Tucker to unify with the IBF Title
Oct 1987 - beat Tyrell Briggs in a unified title defence
Jan 1988 - beat Larry Holmes in a unified title defence
Mar 1988 - beat Tony Tubbs in a unified title defence
June 1988- beat Michael Spinks in a unified title defence
Feb 1989 - beat Frank Bruno in a unified title defence
July 1989 - beat Carl "The Truth" Williams in a unified title defence



(Though I suppose if you wanted to make it a five year stretch you could go way back to his professional debut in March 1985)

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ali 1972-77 dwarfs what Tyson did 1985-90, especially when you consider those were declining years for Ali, and peak ones for Tyson.

[Crease]

Ali 1972-77 dwarfs what Tyson did 1985-90, especially when you consider those were declining years for Ali, and peak ones for Tyson.

Well then, let's compare: (1972-77 you say?)


Sep 1972 - beat Floyd Patterson in a NABF title defence
Feb 1973 - beat Joe Bugner
Mar 1973 - lost to Ken Norton in a NABF title defence
Sep 1973 - beat Ken Norton to regain NABF title
Oct 1973 - beat Rudi Labbers
Jan 1974 - beat Joe Frazier in a NABF title defence
Oct 1974 - beat George Foreman for the WBC & WBA Titles
Mar 1975 - beat Chuck Wepner in unified title defence
Mar 1975 - beat Ron Lyle in a unified title defence
Jun 1975 - beat Joe Bugner in a unified title defence
Oct 1975 - beat Joe Frazier in a unified title defence
Feb 1976 - beat Jean Pierre Coopman in a unified title defence
Apr 1976 - beat Jimmy Young in a unified title defence
May 1976 - beat Richard Dunn in a unified title defence
Sep 1976 - beat Ken Norton in a unified title defence
May 1977 - beat Alfredo Evangelista in a unified title defence
Sept 1977 - beat Earnie Shavers in a unified title defence


Yeah, that is special - thanks for pointing that out.

[Crease]

Another impressive period is 2007 to 2012 for Manny Pacquaio:

Oct 2007 - beat Marco Antonio Barrera in a defence of the WBC International Super Featherweight title
Mar 2008 - beat Juan Manuel Marquez for the WBC Superfeatherweight title
Jun 2008 - beat David Diaz for the WBC Lightweight title
Dec 2008 - beat Oscar De La Hoya
May 2009 - beat Ricky Hatton for the IBO Light Welterweight title
Nov 2009 - beat Miguel Cotto for the WBO Welterweight title
Mar 2010 - beat Joshua Clottey in a WBO Welterweight title defence
Nov 2010 - beat Antonio Margarito for the WBC Light Middleweight title
May 2011 - beat Shane Mosley for the WBO Welterweight title
Nov 2011 - beat Juan Manuel Marquez in a WBO Welterweight title defence
Jun 2012 - fights Timothy Bradley in WBO Welterweight title defence
(probably beat Bradley)

[Syntax Error]

Henry Armstrong must qualify for this.

I'm not going to list all his fights (because there's just too many), but I would say the period from about 1937 to 1942ish must be up there, especially considering that he held 3 world title a 3 'proper' weights simultaneously.

[Crease]

Henry Armstrong must qualify for this.

I'm not going to list all his fights (because there's just too many), but I would say the period from about 1937 to 1942ish must be up there, especially considering that he held 3 world title a 3 'proper' weights simultaneously.

I was going to list them there, but there's dozens of fights there - that he had over that period.

[Tomasino]

Benny Leonard as lightweight champ.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Another impressive period is 2007 to 2012 for Manny Pacquaio:

Oct 2007 - beat Marco Antonio Barrera in a defence of the WBC International Super Featherweight title
Mar 2008 - beat Juan Manuel Marquez for the WBC Superfeatherweight title
Jun 2008 - beat David Diaz for the WBC Lightweight title
Dec 2008 - beat Oscar De La Hoya
May 2009 - beat Ricky Hatton for the IBO Light Welterweight title
Nov 2009 - beat Miguel Cotto for the WBO Welterweight title
Mar 2010 - beat Joshua Clottey in a WBO Welterweight title defence
Nov 2010 - beat Antonio Margarito for the WBC Light Middleweight title
May 2011 - beat Shane Mosley for the WBO Welterweight title
Nov 2011 - beat Juan Manuel Marquez in a WBO Welterweight title defence
Jun 2012 - fights Timothy Bradley in WBO Welterweight title defence
(probably beat Bradley)

Easily qualifies, regardless of what happens with Bradley

[elmersalsa]

Ali 1972-77 dwarfs what Tyson did 1985-90, especially when you consider those were declining years for Ali, and peak ones for Tyson.

Not at all, not at all. He lost to Ken Norton 3 times in that period. He lost to Jimmy Young, too. Tyson never lost in the period from 1985-89. It got to be one of the best periods ever. Especially, when the heavyweight division was in decline.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Please.

Beating Foreman by itself beats Tyson's five years. I accept he was given gifts against Norton (3rd bout, NOT the 2nd) and Young, but he was an old man --- Tyson circa-2000 in his career would not have beaten Norton or Young either.

You've got it all backward at the end there, Elmer. The fact Tyson's five-year run came at a declining period for Heavies is a detraction from what he did, not a positive.

Even if 1972-77 were Ali's best years, its still a superior run to Tyson, 1985-90. The fact that they were declining years for Ali means its no contest at all.

[elmersalsa]

Please.

Beating Foreman by itself beats Tyson's five years. I accept he was given gifts against Norton (3rd bout, NOT the 2nd) and Young, but he was an old man --- Tyson circa-2000 in his career would not have beaten Norton or Young either.

You've got it all backward at the end there, Elmer. The fact Tyson's five-year run came at a declining period for Heavies is a detraction from what he did, not a positive.

Even if 1972-77 were Ali's best years, its still a superior run to Tyson, 1985-90. The fact that they were declining years for Ali means its no contest at all.

You cannot put Ali's 1972-77 period of superior run than Tyson's...No way

He lost 3 times to Norton
Jimmy Young took him to school
Tyson in that era was considered the best fighter of the late 80s...When did Ali was the best fighter of that 1972-77 period?

How could a man that had 4 losses (2 of them won by robbery) is better than a guy that CLEANED UP THE WHOLE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION AND NEVER LOST? How could that be sir?

[Goodnight, Irene]

It, "could be," because it fucken was

[elmersalsa]

It, "could be," because it fucken was

You are out of your mind when you say a guy that lost 4 fights is better than a guy that cleaned up the whole division. As a matter of fact, in that time frame, 1985-89, Tyson had more fights than Ali and won more convincingly. How could Ali's 1972-77 time frame DWARFS Tyson's?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I already explained how.

He beat FAR better foes at a MUCH weaker stage of his career.

Fuk me, are the concepts of prime and non-prime, and quality of opposition THAT difficult to grasp!?

I dont give a FLYING FUK if he lost to Norton or Young --- beating Foreman and Frazier BY ITSELF accounts for what Tyson did, especially --- stay with me now --- Ali was OLD and Tyson was YOUNG.

Im done with this topic.

[raylawpc]

Please.

Beating Foreman by itself beats Tyson's five years. I accept he was given gifts against Norton (3rd bout, NOT the 2nd) and Young, but he was an old man --- Tyson circa-2000 in his career would not have beaten Norton or Young either.

You've got it all backward at the end there, Elmer. The fact Tyson's five-year run came at a declining period for Heavies is a detraction from what he did, not a positive.

Even if 1972-77 were Ali's best years, its still a superior run to Tyson, 1985-90. The fact that they were declining years for Ali means its no contest at all.

You cannot put Ali's 1972-77 period of superior run than Tyson's...No way

He lost 3 times to Norton
Jimmy Young took him to school
Tyson in that era was considered the best fighter of the late 80s...When did Ali was the best fighter of that 1972-77 period?

How could a man that had 4 losses (2 of them won by robbery) is better than a guy that CLEANED UP THE WHOLE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION AND NEVER LOST? How could that be sir?

I think you have to build into the discussion the comparative strengths of the division. I think the heavyweights of the 1970s were better overall and deeper in talent than the heavyweights of the 1980s. That has to count for something.

[chucktaylor]

I already explained how.

He beat FAR better foes at a MUCH weaker stage of his career.

Fuk me, are the concepts of prime and non-prime, and quality of opposition THAT difficult to grasp!?

I dont give a FLYING FUK if he lost to Norton or Young --- beating Foreman and Frazier BY ITSELF accounts for what Tyson did, especially --- stay with me now --- Ali was OLD and Tyson was YOUNG.

Im done with this topic.

To be fair, Tyson was abnormally young. That period turned out to be his prime, but most HW's don't reach their prime as young as Tyson did. It turned out that he didn't have great longevity, but his reign of terror in the 80's is highly impressive in itself.
I think the Ali and Tyson periods mentioned are about on par. Ali had better names, but was not as dominant overall and lost to Norton (as well as won very controversially vs him and Young). Tyson beat the competition availible at the time (w/ some good names) in stunning fashion.
What seperates Ali from Tyson is that he has another extremely impressive 5 year run. From 1962-67, he fought spectacularly and was undefeated against many top opponents.

[Goodnight, Irene]

On par? You are out of your fucken mind. Did I wake up in the twilight zone!?

Tyson, in his absolute prime, deserves equal or better credit than an Ali who, between 1972 & 1977, varies between past-prime and completely shot, because a fading Ali lost a few against competition numbering Frazier, Norton, Young, Lyle, Quarry, Foreman, Shavers? While a peak Tyson retained an, '0' against Thomas, Tucker, Spinks, Holmes, Bruno, Williams, Smith? He also LOST to Douglas within the five years specified, for those of you pretending that didnt happen and doesnt count.

Hell, we can sort this out with just two names...Douglas LOSS, Foreman WIN. That alone puts Ali unassailably ahead...and the deeper into these periods we go, the further Ali pulls away...but oh no, Ali lost to Norton once while past his best, and then again when he was shot, and was totally over-the-hill when beaten by Young, both of whom were better than any of Tyson's victims, so Tyson is now, "on par," after bashing his way through one of the weaker HW crops in all of history.

You are in dreamland.

[Boilermaker]

On par? You are out of your fucken mind. Did I wake up in the twilight zone!?

Tyson, in his absolute prime, deserves equal or better credit than an Ali who, between 1972 & 1977, varies between past-prime and completely shot, because a fading Ali lost a few against competition numbering Frazier, Norton, Young, Lyle, Quarry, Foreman, Shavers? While a peak Tyson retained an, '0' against Thomas, Tucker, Spinks, Holmes, Bruno, Williams, Smith? He also LOST to Douglas within the five years specified, for those of you pretending that didnt happen and doesnt count.

Hell, we can sort this out with just two names...Douglas LOSS, Foreman WIN. That alone puts Ali unassailably ahead...and the deeper into these periods we go, the further Ali pulls away...but oh no, Ali lost to Norton once while past his best, and then again when he was shot, and was totally over-the-hill when beaten by Young, both of whom were better than any of Tyson's victims, so Tyson is now, "on par," after bashing his way through one of the weaker HW crops in all of history.

You are in dreamland.

What relevance does the Douglas loss have, when it was outside the 5 year period

[yancey]

"How could a man that had 4 losses (2 of them won by robbery) is better than a guy that CLEANED UP THE WHOLE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION AND NEVER LOST? How could that be sir?" Elmer


That ain't a bad question.

I must be effing nuts, too.

[Goodnight, Irene]

1985-90 is five years. It corresponds to Ali's 1972-77 period.

Not, to be clear, that its a game-changer. Even if you look at Tyson 85-89, it isnt even within striking distance of what Ali did.

[yancey]

1985-90 is five years. It corresponds to Ali's 1972-77 period.

Not, to be clear, that its a game-changer. Even if you look at Tyson 85-89, it isnt even within striking distance of what Ali did.

Yes Irene, but those gifts given Ali do have a lingering stench.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Still better This debate is just too retarded for words.

I have started this post three times, citing different, glaring stupidities in arguing what Tyson did 1985-90 beats Ali's accolades 1972-77, but I rather feel like those lions in Africa who become stymied at too many easy targets...did everyone just start acquiring knowledge purely from paper records on this site!?

[Boilermaker]

1985-90 is five years. It corresponds to Ali's 1972-77 period.

Not, to be clear, that its a game-changer. Even if you look at Tyson 85-89, it isnt even within striking distance of what Ali did.

Year 1 - 1985
Year 2 - 1986
Year 3 - 1987
Year 4 - 1988
Year 5- 1989

To be fair though, it means that Tyson was not fighting professionally for a month or two in that period. I wonder whether he had any amateur losses/wins that need to be factored in if that is the period being used.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Whether you count from zero or one, the result is a wide Ali victory.

Tyson in that timeframe doesnt have a single foe within a MILION FUCKEN MILES of Foreman or Frazier.

He has no one on par with Norton (whom a past-prime Ali beat legitimately in 1973).

He has MAYBE one guy within the realm of Quarry, Lyle and Young, in Tucker.

Once again, Tyson was in his prime, Ali varied between past-prime and shot.

Ali beat MUCH better opposition at a FAR weaker stage of his career...I dont give a flying FUK if Tyson had an, '0.' He had the huge advantage of his youth and the class of foe, collectively, was comparative garbage.

A past-your-prime win against a peak Foreman eclipses Tyson's entire fucken career