What does Floyd Mayweather Jnr need to do to be best ever ?

[jessi]

Some say his the best since sugar ray, some say maybe Roy Jones Jnr was better, Floyd himself already believes his the greatest of all time and who can blame him, for me if he beats Cotto, pacman, and say someone like canelo all with ease he MUST surely be considered as not only an all time great but maybe just maybe the greatest !
Sorry if the topics been done before, I don't remember it, thoughts ?

[Bennyblanco]

Fight the best at there peak and beat them convincingly. Carnt see him fighting canelo or Martinez though, both too big

[Quixall]

Some say his the best since sugar ray, some say maybe Roy Jones Jnr was better, Floyd himself already believes his the greatest of all time and who can blame him, for me if he beats Cotto, pacman, and say someone like canelo all with ease he MUST surely be considered as not only an all time great but maybe just maybe the greatest !
Sorry if the topics been done before, I don't remember it, thoughts ?

There is maybe some validity in saying that he is the best since Leonard, Hearns and Roy Jones etc, but he will never be able to claim himself as the best fighter ever. He will not get above Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong, never mind Ali. All Floyd can do is tp try and cement his legacy a bit more by decidedly beating Cotto and then Pacquaio. The other fights out there that would be intriguing would be against Canello and Bradley, if Bradley beats Pacquaio. After those names there is no-one else for Floyd to stci around for, unless he wants to increase his bank balance. One of the major problems with Floyd is that he didn't fight particular fighters at the right time. Cotto should have been a match up four years ago. A fight with Pacquaio should have happenned straight after Pacquaio beat Hatton and his fight with Shane should have happenned some seven or eight years ago. Will be an ATG and a HOF fighter, but he won't get the tag of best fighter ever.

[Deserter]

Some say his the best since sugar ray, some say maybe Roy Jones Jnr was better, Floyd himself already believes his the greatest of all time and who can blame him, for me if he beats Cotto, pacman, and say someone like canelo all with ease he MUST surely be considered as not only an all time great but maybe just maybe the greatest !
Sorry if the topics been done before, I don't remember it, thoughts ?

There is maybe some validity in saying that he is the best since Leonard, Hearns and Roy Jones etc, but he will never be able to claim himself as the best fighter ever. He will not get above Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong, never mind Ali. All Floyd can do is tp try and cement his legacy a bit more by decidedly beating Cotto and then Pacquaio. The other fights out there that would be intriguing would be against Canello and Bradley, if Bradley beats Pacquaio. After those names there is no-one else for Floyd to stci around for, unless he wants to increase his bank balance. One of the major problems with Floyd is that he didn't fight particular fighters at the right time. Cotto should have been a match up four years ago. A fight with Pacquaio should have happenned straight after Pacquaio beat Hatton and his fight with Shane should have happenned some seven or eight years ago. Will be an ATG and a HOF fighter, but he won't get the tag of best fighter ever.

Exactly this. It's too late for him to ever make a serious run at that accolade.

[jessi]

^ ^ I do agree, but the best fighting the best these days is becoming more and more uncommon so we have to judge boxers by ability against who they do fight. No ones top 10 of best boxers ever will be the same so as long as his in that top ten when he retires he has an argument for being number 1 IMO.

[JC]

I don't know about best ever but if he had fought and beat Pacquiao when he was coming off the wins over Cotto and Margarito and still looking stellar it would have given his legacy a big boost.

[Crease]

Some say his the best since sugar ray, some say maybe Roy Jones Jnr was better, Floyd himself already believes his the greatest of all time

Mayweather may well believe it, but he isn't anywhere near it. Floyd would be lucky to be in people's top 20 - and even then we are being kind to him.

Floyd is a fantastic boxer, no doubt about that and his record is numerically perfect - but his record could have been much, much better. In recent years, Floyd has fought and beat ring-greats who have seen their best days away and gone.

And he could've been much more active - fought harder fights. Yet he didn't.

There are guys out there who you probably haven't heard of - who have beaten better guys than those of whom, Floyd has beat.

[ALI]

It's too late for him to ever make a serious run at that accolade.

100% agree.

The best part of his career is well past him now, there is nothing he can do in the closing stages of his career that would have me hail him as the best ever.

[desperados]

It's too late for him to ever make a serious run at that accolade.

100% agree.

The best part of his career is well past him now, there is nothing he can do in the closing stages of his career that would have me hail him as the best ever.

indeed, he really hurt his own legacy with taking such long periods of time out. When he beat De La hoya, he had the world at his feet. But his record since then has been pretty flat imo. Don't get me wrong, his win over Hatton was up there too, but you'd expect a fighter coming off a light-middlewieght world title win against Oscar to be able to beat the best guy 2 divisions below.

His fight with JMM is a sham imo, he dragged a lightweight up 2 divisions by coaxing him in with a fat cheque & a catchweight... then didnt bother making the weight, he beat a fleshy JMM weighing 142 and could have had as much as 20lb on him on fight night.

Mosely was finished, and there's nothing impressive about scoring a cowardly KO in the manner in which he did vs Ortiz.

and thats it, after 5 years.

Meanwhile he has refused to make the fight with Pacquiao, his great rival, the 1 guy on his level, and at the same weight. There is also fights out there in the 154 division (even though it's a big step up in weight for him given his natural size, but this hasnt dettered the all time greats in by gone era's) - such as Canelo & Martinez - but the chances of fighting either are slim to none.

At this point in time, i can see a guy like Andre Ward leaving us a much more impressive and glorious legacy than Floyd.

[grannyman]

I really like Floyd Mayweather. I like his speed, accuracy, movement etc, but mostly I like how he shows us that defence is as important as anything else. People always say things like 'He's shown more aggression, so he'll get the nod', but for me this sometimes takes away from how good a fighters defence is.

I also happen to think that Mayweather would beat Pacman at any stage of Manny's career, not just based on his recent form.

[Datsue]

Has anyone said "Actually become Sugar Ray Robinson" yet?

[kamicazze]

If he was to make it to 50-0 then there would be a very strong argument for him. Let say he decisively beats Cotto. That means he has 7 opponents to make it there. If these consist of Pacquiao, Martinez, Alvarez with maybe a Robert Guerrerro, Amir Khan, Brandon Rios and someone like Broner/Gamboa then its hard to deny that he is up there then.

[desperados]

If he was to make it to 50-0 then there would be a very strong argument for him. Let say he decisively beats Cotto. That means he has 7 opponents to make it there. If these consist of Pacquiao, Martinez, Alvarez with maybe a Robert Guerrerro, Amir Khan, Brandon Rios and someone like Broner/Gamboa then its hard to deny that he is up there then.

thats a huge IF.

firstly, he fights once a year. hes 35. At this rate, he'll be 42 if he fights 7 more times, so unless he starts fighting 3 times a year, i highly doubt he'll fight 7 times. Im not sure we'll get another 4.

Secondly, the Pacquaio fight should have happened over 2 years ago, and considering Floyd doesnt seem as though he will budge from his stance on taking over 50%, the fight may well never happen. If it doesn't, i suspect he will be forever remebered for the non-fight before anything he has achieved.

[Finn]

beat pac and martinez.


and wlad k

[ALI]

Going back in time four and a half years, sacking off the semi retirement and whipping a younger Cotto, a pre Mosley Margarito, Manny Pacquaio and Paul Williams as well as what he did do over that time would be a start. Add Alvarez and Martinez to that from now and he'd have an amazing record.

Thats it, and seeing as he didn't he can never be considered for the 'ultimate' accolade, thats reserved for those greats that put it all on the line when it mattered and left us no reason for doubt.

[NazNaci1]

It's too late for him to ever make a serious run at that accolade.

100% agree.

The best part of his career is well past him now, there is nothing he can do in the closing stages of his career that would have me hail him as the best ever.

x2. Like KG said, erase 10-20 guys (more like 20-25 imo) and then you MAY have a case.

[forcefraser]

Put it this way, at his peak, who would have actually beaten Mayweäther and how would they have done it?

He was/is an amazingly skilful boxer, who knows how to defend himself and win fights. The only disputed fight for me was against Castillo, the rest he has won convincingly.

Duran, Hearns and Leonanrd would have been great fights with Mayweather at Lightweight/Welterweight and for me Hearns would have had the best chance at beating him.

Just because Mayweather is a first rate arse, doesn`t lessen his ability as a boxer.

[keithmoonhangover]

Mayweather would need to have 20 more fights and take on everyone out there for me to even consider him as 'the best'.

[jesse_ar]

Come on, nothing, nada, he is already a Great Perhaps he needs to get in there with Vladimir or back in the ring with the Big Show....
The severe misplaced obsession cum hatred with PBF is hilarious, perhaps it points to other underlying issues ;;-) ... oh boy, times don't change.

[Quixall]

Come on, nothing, nada, he is already a Great Perhaps he needs to get in there with Vladimir or back in the ring with the Big Show....
The severe misplaced obsession cum hatred with PBF is hilarious, perhaps it points to other underlying issues ;;-) ... oh boy, times don't change.

Thanks, but we already know he is a great..........

The point of the post was whether he could claim himself to be the best ever. The answer to that in most people's eyes is no because you have the likes of Robinson and Armstrong. He wouldn't even get past Hearns' legacy, never mind Leonards or Ali's. If you think he is going down as the best ever, then you are delusional my friend

Ps Have you actually read the posts ? Because they actually agree with your point about him being a great fighter.

[Datsue]

Put it this way, at his peak, who would have actually beaten Mayweäther and how would they have done it?

1: Ray Leonard, too big too fast too hard of a hitter. Floyd had trouble with Judah's combination of speed & power & I believe the lad would close up shop pretty early & lose something like 118-110 on the cards. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

2: Duran at lightweight: I really don't see Floyd as any better than say Esteban DeJesus (who, before anyone starts, was a truly great fighter) & if Castillo could give him the shits then Duran would tear him a new one. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

3: Chavez at lightweight might beat him, might not (styles make fights after all) but he'd hurt him severely & give him nightmares. Again, basically JLC was a broke destitute foreclosed man's version of JCC Superstar. Chavez had trouble with blazing multipunch combos & speedy frenetic movement neither of which Floyd would bring to the fight (he's never ever opened up with more than a couple shots at a time unless he knows he's got his man going/severely outclassed, going all the way back to superfeather). Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

4: Vernon Forrest at welter: you beat speed & cuteness with height & reach & a jab & a good straight right & a plan. Vernon could do this, I believe (he did it Sugar Shane, another fast, undersized welter. Completely different style Shane's & Floyd's but still, I think he would). Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

5: Hearns: like Forrest but deadlier, meaner & nastier. Would probably win by death. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

6: A DLH who was ten years younger could, I believe do the do. But wouldn't bet on that one. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

7: Mosley around the time of the first DLH fight. Would make Mayweather either shut up shop, or cry. Or both. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

8: Jose Napoles: possible. Would be a chess match for sure. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

9: Wilfred Benitez: the teenaged version would give Floyd all the trouble in the world. I'd rather watch paint dry, though: "Ooh look! They're exchanging feints!"

10: At light-middle so a stretch but Mike McCallum (with Eddie Futch in the corner natch). All day long & twice on Sundays. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.


That's just off the top of my head, for starters, fighters that I have actually seen with my own eyes, from the last thirty years. If I can make decent arguments for these men at the drop of a hat, what about all the lads of yesteryear who I haven't seen? Guys like Henry Armstrong & such that the grizzled veterans always bring up?

We're talking best of all time. If there's a top ten list just over the last thirty years how in the sacred unknowable name of fck can you say he's the best ever? BEST? EVER?

Have you ever seen Sugar Ray Robinson when he was in his late thirties, knocking middleweights clean out? He was six-foot one with an insane reach. Though little or no footage exists of the man in his physical prime at welter, based on what I have seen of the slowed-down middleweight version he would literally make Floyd his bitch.

Saying Floyd was the best ever was a stupid bloody thing to say in the first place & people are only getting stupider trying to justify it.

Now before you start I am not dissing his claims to greatness. He obviously is. But if he was t he best ever he would not have gone life & death twice with Jose Luis Castillo. People say "Floyd isn't the best ever" & people react with "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! You don't like Floyd!" It's lunacy.

[Newport Daz]

Put it this way, at his peak, who would have actually beaten Mayweäther and how would they have done it?

1: Ray Leonard, too big too fast too hard of a hitter. Floyd had trouble with Judah's combination of speed & power & I believe the lad would close up shop pretty early & lose something like 118-110 on the cards. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

2: Duran at lightweight: I really don't see Floyd as any better than say Esteban DeJesus (who, before anyone starts, was a truly great fighter) & if Castillo could give him the shits then Duran would tear him a new one. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

3: Chavez at lightweight might beat him, might not (styles make fights after all) but he'd hurt him severely & give him nightmares. Again, basically JLC was a broke destitute foreclosed man's version of JCC Superstar. Chavez had trouble with blazing multipunch combos & speedy frenetic movement neither of which Floyd would bring to the fight (he's never ever opened up with more than a couple shots at a time unless he knows he's got his man going/severely outclassed, going all the way back to superfeather). Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

4: Vernon Forrest at welter: you beat speed & cuteness with height & reach & a jab & a good straight right & a plan. Vernon could do this, I believe (he did it Sugar Shane, another fast, undersized welter. Completely different style Shane's & Floyd's but still, I think he would). Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

5: Hearns: like Forrest but deadlier, meaner & nastier. Would probably win by death. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

6: A DLH who was ten years younger could, I believe do the do. But wouldn't bet on that one. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

7: Mosley around the time of the first DLH fight. Would make Mayweather either shut up shop, or cry. Or both. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

8: Jose Napoles: possible. Would be a chess match for sure. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.

9: Wilfred Benitez: the teenaged version would give Floyd all the trouble in the world. I'd rather watch paint dry, though: "Ooh look! They're exchanging feints!"

10: At light-middle so a stretch but Mike McCallum (with Eddie Futch in the corner natch). All day long & twice on Sundays. Can you imagine Floyd agreeing to fight him, FFS? 'Cos I can't.


That's just off the top of my head, for starters, fighters that I have actually seen with my own eyes, from the last thirty years. If I can make decent arguments for these men at the drop of a hat, what about all the lads of yesteryear who I haven't seen? Guys like Henry Armstrong & such that the grizzled veterans always bring up?

We're talking best of all time. If there's a top ten list just over the last thirty years how in the sacred unknowable name of fck can you say he's the best ever? BEST? EVER?

Have you ever seen Sugar Ray Robinson when he was in his late thirties, knocking middleweights clean out? He was six-foot one with an insane reach. Though little or no footage exists of the man in his physical prime at welter, based on what I have seen of the slowed-down middleweight version he would literally make Floyd his bitch.

Saying Floyd was the best ever was a stupid bloody thing to say in the first place & people are only getting stupider trying to justify it.

Now before you start I am not dissing his claims to greatness. He obviously is. But if he was t he best ever he would not have gone life & death twice with Jose Luis Castillo. People say "Floyd isn't the best ever" & people react with "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! You don't like Floyd!" It's lunacy.

Nice post. Agree completely. Roger Mayweather when interviewed over at Eastside on the On the Ropes radio show admitted as much about Vernon Forest. Said he had the jab and style to have been a real difficult fight for Floyd. And as you say, if Vernon was going to be a problem, Tommy Hearns ..............!

[NazNaci1]

Great post Datsue. And like you say, that is the more contemporaries fighters. Imagine Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Benny Leonard, Barney Ross, Mickey Walker etc...

Terry Norris would give him ALL he could handle, prime for prime. Great fighter, sure. Very skilled and too good for what is about today, but the Greatest or even anywhere near that, with so many great fighters in history? No way, not even close.

[tommo100]

floyd is`nt as good as pernell whitaker imo
when he`s retired he`ll be mentioned as a great boxer but he`ll never be compared to
the true legends

[mcjarvo]

I think its too late for him to be the best ever maybe if he faced cotto after mayweather beat hatton and cotto beating mosley, cotto in his prime. after that maybe a margarito and paul williams, he did face mosley so he would have cleaned the divion out, maybe throw clotty in there aswell, after that pacquiao Then martinez then he would go down as the greatest boxer i have seen in my lifetime.people say calero but he has not proven anything to go in the ring with mayweather.