What does Floyd Mayweather Jnr need to do to be best ever ?

[stujones]

Maybe Barrera's record 'isn't a patch' on Mayweather's because Marco boxed guys when they were in their 20s and in their prime? Mayweather fights them years after their peak, when they are old, their confidence and skills eroded. He has proven that you can talk your way into 'greatness' and people are stupid enough to buy into it.

Like Corrales, Castillo, Chavez, Manfredy?

Yeah, lots of Floyd's fighters were in their 30's - but they were still the best in the division at the time. Had Floyd fought Berto as opposed to Mosley, Tim Bradley as opposed to Hatton, Winky Wright or the light middle version of Martinez instead of DLH - he would have faced criticism.... damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If Floyd faced Martinez tomorrow he would have the same level of criticism. Indeed, at least Cotto and Mosley were coming off impressive performances.

Barrera's record isn't a whose who as tommo implied it was. Where is the unification fights? Morales and Hamed aside where is the wins against P4P top ten fighters. There were some fab Asian fighters out there when Barrera was super bantam champ - but there are lots of fighters who he fought where he was expected to win.... Wenton, Lloyd, Jimenez etc. Where is the likes of Tim Austin, Injin Chi, Bones Adams, Nestor Garza etc etc.

[Finn]

Maybe Barrera's record 'isn't a patch' on Mayweather's because Marco boxed guys when they were in their 20s and in their prime? Mayweather fights them years after their peak, when they are old, their confidence and skills eroded. He has proven that you can talk your way into 'greatness' and people are stupid enough to buy into it.

Like Corrales, Castillo, Chavez, Manfredy?

Yeah, lots of Floyd's fighters were in their 30's - but they were still the best in the division at the time. Had Floyd fought Berto as opposed to Mosley, Tim Bradley as opposed to Hatton, Winky Wright or the light middle version of Martinez instead of DLH - he would have faced criticism.... damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If Floyd faced Martinez tomorrow he would have the same level of criticism. Indeed, at least Cotto and Mosley were coming off impressive performances.

I honestly believe that PBF is so good that when he gets in the ring with fighters he beats them with ease and makes them look ordinary. Those opponents then get labled as shot - Mosley is an example he beat margarito people were calling for PBF to fight him, then after the fight mosley had apparently been past it. But Pac fights margarito and it was was considered an excellent win.

PBF beats ortiz, its not good enough, he's fighting cotto who has beaten foreman, mayorga and margarito in his last 3 fights and PBF is hand picking opponents. Who is there for him to fight? I personally think he beats pac; martinez and canelo are the other options but the the critics will say alvarez was inexperienced and martinez was weight drained.

Floyds big mistake was not getting in the ring with Pac before he fought JMM again. He would have then gained some kudos for winning now people will say Pac was over rated if PBF beats him.

[banjo]

Maybe Barrera's record 'isn't a patch' on Mayweather's because Marco boxed guys when they were in their 20s and in their prime? Mayweather fights them years after their peak, when they are old, their confidence and skills eroded. He has proven that you can talk your way into 'greatness' and people are stupid enough to buy into it.

Like Corrales, Castillo, Chavez, Manfredy?

Yeah, lots of Floyd's fighters were in their 30's - but they were still the best in the division at the time. Had Floyd fought Berto as opposed to Mosley, Tim Bradley as opposed to Hatton, Winky Wright or the light middle version of Martinez instead of DLH - he would have faced criticism.... damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If Floyd faced Martinez tomorrow he would have the same level of criticism. Indeed, at least Cotto and Mosley were coming off impressive performances.

Barrera's record isn't a whose who as tommo implied it was. Where is the unification fights? Morales and Hamed aside where is the wins against P4P top ten fighters. There were some fab Asian fighters out there when Barrera was super bantam champ - but there are lots of fighters who he fought where he was expected to win.... Wenton, Lloyd, Jimenez etc. Where is the likes of Tim Austin, Injin Chi, Bones Adams, Nestor Garza etc etc.

TBH I think Winky Wright would have been a tougher opponent than DLH at the time although I believe Winky was already campaigning at Middleweight by the time Floyd stepped up to light middle.

[stujones]

Maybe Barrera's record 'isn't a patch' on Mayweather's because Marco boxed guys when they were in their 20s and in their prime? Mayweather fights them years after their peak, when they are old, their confidence and skills eroded. He has proven that you can talk your way into 'greatness' and people are stupid enough to buy into it.

Like Corrales, Castillo, Chavez, Manfredy?

Yeah, lots of Floyd's fighters were in their 30's - but they were still the best in the division at the time. Had Floyd fought Berto as opposed to Mosley, Tim Bradley as opposed to Hatton, Winky Wright or the light middle version of Martinez instead of DLH - he would have faced criticism.... damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If Floyd faced Martinez tomorrow he would have the same level of criticism. Indeed, at least Cotto and Mosley were coming off impressive performances.

Barrera's record isn't a whose who as tommo implied it was. Where is the unification fights? Morales and Hamed aside where is the wins against P4P top ten fighters. There were some fab Asian fighters out there when Barrera was super bantam champ - but there are lots of fighters who he fought where he was expected to win.... Wenton, Lloyd, Jimenez etc. Where is the likes of Tim Austin, Injin Chi, Bones Adams, Nestor Garza etc etc.

TBH I think Winky Wright would have been a tougher opponent than DLH at the time although I believe Winky was already campaigning at Middleweight by the time Floyd stepped up to light middle.

Not saying your wrong Banjo, but thats part of the problem..... had he fought Wright - there would have been posters going "oh Wright is past it now... he looked far less impressive in the rematch against Mosley... why isn't he fighting the #1 in the division DLH"

And when he fought DLH there were calls he should be fighting another Light Middle (including Wright) as opposed to the Golden Boy who was just a celebrity fighter.

He's getting criticisms for fighting Cotto now. Had he fought Alvarez, people would be saying he's fighting a green fighter - like they did when he fought Ortiz.

Just like the criticisms he got when he fought the lineal 147 champion and #1 in the division. People were saying he should be fighting a very much unproven Margarito - a guy who lost to Daniel Santos.

[loaded_gloves]

Saying Mayweather would get no credit for fighting Martinez is pure fantasy. That would be a shocker if he agreed to that and he would get huge respect, because it goes against everything Mayweather has done in his career.

[Deserter]

He has nothing, NOTHING, to suggest he could hang with Leonard.

I wouldn't put it in such stark terms, but I must admit I'd struggle to see how Floyd could overcome Sugar Ray - Leonard was at least as fast, a harder puncher, a better combination puncher and a more versatile fighter.
Given this, how would anyone envisage him beating Sugar Ray? i'm genuinely curious to hear.

[jessi]

He has nothing, NOTHING, to suggest he could hang with Leonard.

I wouldn't put it in such stark terms, but I must admit I'd struggle to see how Floyd could overcome Sugar Ray - Leonard was at least as fast, a harder puncher, a better combination puncher and a more versatile fighter.
Given this, how would anyone envisage him beating Sugar Ray? i'm genuinely curious to hear.

Sugar Rays hard fast combinations would of been mostly blocked on the arms and gloves of Floyd, Floyd is even more accurate and keeps in perfect range almost all of the time. It would of been a closer fight then your comments suggest IMO

[stujones]

Saying Mayweather would get no credit for fighting Martinez is pure fantasy. That would be a shocker if he agreed to that and he would get huge respect, because it goes against everything Mayweather has done in his career.

Yes, Floyd could have fought some other fighters (but then we can say that about every single fighter who has ever laced them up).... but to say it goes against everything Mayweather has done in his career is extreme. He's faced plenty of #1 fighters in the division during his time, he faced plenty of fighters in their 20's. Call Mosley, DLH, Marquez, (and if you want to add Cotto and Hatton if you want) - there were still plenty of very good, at their peak, champions he has faced when moving up the weight.

Not sure how Martinez, who hasn't looked great in his last two outings, is a more meaningful fight and win than DLH. Both in their 30's, both look like they've seen better days... both the #1 in the division at the time - yet DLH was "another hand picked" opponent by some, timed brilliantly by Mayweather.... same is now applying to Cotto.

If Mayweather fought Martinez, there will be calls that he's timed it right and calls for other fighters - e.g. Alvarez or maybe even Golovkin or Quinlan.

Might sound rediculous looking at it.... however, it aint that much different to the criticisms Floyd got for fighting Baldomir and Hatton instead of the far less proven Margarito and Williams.

There are even calls that the Pac fight will only happen now, cause Pac looked poor against JMM.

There will always be calls that he should fight someone else.

[loaded_gloves]

Sugar Rays hard fast combinations would of been mostly blocked on the arms and gloves of Floyd, Floyd is even more accurate and keeps in perfect range almost all of the time. It would of been a closer fight then your comments suggest IMO

Jessi I hate to be condescending, but you really need to go and learn about boxing. Sugar ray fought monsters. He ducked nobody. The very idea of him finding ways not to fight a flyweight like Pacman is laughable. He and Floyd are worlds apart. Ray showed his character in the ring. Floyd shouts about his, tries con people into believing his skills are great, but is too scared to prove it against anyone who can hurt him.

The idea of Leonard, who took the best shots of Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran and solved the puzzle of Wilfredo Benitez being controlled by Floyd Jnr is ludicrous.

[Deserter]

Sugar Rays hard fast combinations would of been mostly blocked on the arms and gloves of Floyd, Floyd is even more accurate and keeps in perfect range almost all of the time. It would of been a closer fight then your comments suggest IMO

Jessi I hate to be condescending, but you really need to go and learn about boxing. Sugar ray fought monsters. He ducked nobody. The very idea of him finding ways not to fight a flyweight like Pacman is laughable. He and Floyd are worlds apart. Ray showed his character in the ring. Floyd shouts about his, tries con people into believing his skills are great, but is too scared to prove it against anyone who can hurt him.

The idea of Leonard, who took the best shots of Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran and solved the puzzle of Wilfredo Benitez being controlled by Floyd Jnr is ludicrous.

This.

[jessi]

Sugar Rays hard fast combinations would of been mostly blocked on the arms and gloves of Floyd, Floyd is even more accurate and keeps in perfect range almost all of the time. It would of been a closer fight then your comments suggest IMO

Jessi I hate to be condescending, but you really need to go and learn about boxing. Sugar ray fought monsters. He ducked nobody. The very idea of him finding ways not to fight a flyweight like Pacman is laughable. He and Floyd are worlds apart. Ray showed his character in the ring. Floyd shouts about his, tries con people into believing his skills are great, but is too scared to prove it against anyone who can hurt him.

The idea of Leonard, who took the best shots of Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran and solved the puzzle of Wilfredo Benitez being controlled by Floyd Jnr is ludicrous.

Who said mayweather would control sugar ray ? Because as shaggy says "it wasent me" I dident even say he would beat him, I merely said it would of been closer then deserter suggested, and I totally agree sugar fought monsters, he lost to them to, I know he beat Duran in both the rematches, the draw with hearns was late in his career, so where the other two loses, I know your gona slate floyds record and praise sugar rays, yes I get all that, but the original question was what does he need to do to be the best ever ? Who does he have to beat in his closing 2 or 3 years ? If the answer is he can't then say that, don't tell me I need to learn boxing, I had a lot of amateur experience and have travelled the world watching the sport I love, please don't insult me because I have an opinion. Thank you.

[Trojans44]

Maybe Barrera's record 'isn't a patch' on Mayweather's because Marco boxed guys when they were in their 20s and in their prime? Mayweather fights them years after their peak, when they are old, their confidence and skills eroded. He has proven that you can talk your way into 'greatness' and people are stupid enough to buy into it.

This is just factually incorrect nonsense. I was going to write a lengthy reply to your various posts but you're so obviously entrenched in bias it would be a waste of time e.g. referencing the one decent shot landed on Mayweather in his entire career, ignoring the fact that he actually went on and won the round. Ever heard of Dicky Ecklund? Dont see him flooring Mayweather.

None of us know if Mayweather could beat Leonard, but to suggest that either is vastly and obviously more talented than the other is ludicrous. A fighter as dominant as Mayweather, greatest of his era by a mile, barely losing a round against a stellar list of opponents (and thats what it is) would have been one of the best in any era. To suggest otherwise is churlish and displays a lack of judgement.

[jessi]

^ ^ 100% agree

[Deserter]

This is just factually incorrect nonsense... Ever heard of Dicky Ecklund? Dont see him flooring Mayweather.

Somewhat ironic you're talking about factually incorrect nonsense and then making that statement, given it's commonly accepted (including by Ecklund himself) that Leonard slipped.

None of us know if Mayweather could beat Leonard, but to suggest that either is vastly and obviously more talented than the other is ludicrous. A fighter as dominant as Mayweather, greatest of his era by a mile, barely losing a round against a stellar list of opponents (and thats what it is) would have been one of the best in any era. To suggest otherwise is churlish and displays a lack of judgement.

I think you undermine your own argument by talking about barely losing a round (Castillo and De La Hoya fights immediately spring to mind) and a "stellar" list of opponents - Mayweather hasn't got anything on his slate to compare to the Durans, Hearns and Haglers of this world... and Benitez would be up there with the best Floyd has fought.
In a bid to avoid this becoming too confrontational, all I'm saying is that I genuinely struggle to make a case for Floyd being able to win, as I just can't think of anything he does that Leonard couldn't do, and conversely Leonard displays facets I've never seen from Floyd - better power, better combination punching etc. Given this, I can only rationally see a clear UD for Leonard.

[loaded_gloves]

Trojan can only cite 'one punch' ever hurting Mayweather, thinks Dicky Eklund knocked down Sugar Ray Leonard, and calls my posts "factually incorrect nonsense" - talk about burying yourself.

[palooka]

Mayweather is the best of his era but would have struggled badly at welter in the early 80's. Any one of Hearns, Leonard, Benitez, Duran or Palomino could/would have beaten him over 15 rounds.

I admire Floyds skills and achievements and think that a Don Curry bout would have been a classic.

[ALI]

Mayweather is the best of his era but would have struggled badly at welter in the early 80's. Any one of Hearns, Leonard, Benitez, Duran or Palomino could/would have beaten him over 15 rounds.

I admire Floyds skills and achievements and think that a Don Curry bout would have been a classic.

Why is he, because he looks great? He is hailed as the best of his era, yet he's never proven it. He moved up through the weights but never fought the fights he should have. The three biggest names on his record are Mosley (shop worn), De La Hoya (past it yet Mayweather still struggled badly) and Marquez (forced up two divisions and Mayweather still weighs in heavy!). At welterweight he never fought Margarito, Cotto and Williams when it mattered.

Why exactly is he the best of his era, because you admire his skills so much, or because the man himself says so?

[Final round]

He can't be the best ever now.

[ALI]

He can't be the best ever now.

He's not the best now either!

[palooka]

Floyd has not cleaned up the divisions as thoroughly as he ought to. The men he has faced have been pretty much the best at the weight. He is a loudmouth and too brash but he is excellent.

The Manny thing is ridiculous.

If Mayweather is not the defining boxer in the years since Roy Jones' decline; who is?

[Final round]

He can't be the best ever now.

He's not the best now either!

You had to take it all away didn't you! You'll have Leonard Ellerbe on the phone threatening to send Floyd Snr and Roger around.

[jessi]

He can't be the best ever now.

He's not the best now either!

Enlighten me please ?

[ALI]

Floyd has not cleaned up the divisions as thoroughly as he ought to. The men he has faced have been pretty much the best at the weight. He is a loudmouth and too brash but he is excellent.

The Manny thing is ridiculous.

If Mayweather is not the defining boxer in the years since Roy Jones' decline; who is?

He is, there's no questioning that.