Biggest Robbing in history?

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 01 Sep 2005, 10:06

whats the worse decision u know of or have seen?

jyuza · Post by **jyuza** » 01 Sep 2005, 10:08

That i ever seen ?
hagler in is first title bout or hearns leonard II

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 01 Sep 2005, 10:09

well know of then...

jonpurgason · Post by **jonpurgason** » 01 Sep 2005, 17:41

what about lewis/holyfield 1?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Sep 2005, 19:17

i dont think hagler-leonard was a robbery, watch the fight again, and ull see everytime u watch it it gets closer and closer. it was a very close fight IMO. it could have gone either way.

the last round was the difference in my scorecard, i had leonard winning it making it 115-114.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 01 Sep 2005, 19:30

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i dont think hagler-leonard was a robbery, watch the fight again, and ull see everytime u watch it it gets closer and closer. it was a very close fight IMO. it could have gone either way.

the last round was the difference in my scorecard, i had leonard winning it making it 115-114.

I respect your opinion.. but I have to say.. each time I see that fight I see Hagler getting robbed.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 01 Sep 2005, 21:53

Though I haven't seen the fight, I have heard that the Middleweight title fight between Joey Giardello and Rubin Carter was a huge robbing.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Sep 2005, 22:52

vagabundo, when fights are that close people tend to see different things. and this is one fight where people will never tend to agree who won.

i scored leonard hagler 4 times,

here are my score cards

1st time: 115-114 Leonard

2nd time : 114-114 EVEN

3rd Time : 115-113 Hagler

4th time: 115-114 Leonard

veyr hard fight to score IMO. u see how i went from hagler winning, back to leonard winning.

dws · Post by **dws** » 02 Sep 2005, 00:06

Never seen it but apparently Alfredo Escalera's split decision win against Tyrone Everette,in Everette's hometown of Philadelphia,is the poster boy of bad decisions.According to boxrec it was Everette's only loss and he died only 6 months later at age 24.Anyone know the circumstances of his death?

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 02 Sep 2005, 00:14

Carter-Giardello was not a robbery. I have the whole fight on tape and it was competetive but nowhere near a robbery. I also dont agree that Hagler-Antuofermo was a robbery. Hagler faded down the stretch and allowed Antuofermo to even up the fight.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 02 Sep 2005, 00:35

Whitaker-Chavez and Snipes-Coetzee were two of the worst I've ever seen.

The 3 times I've watched Leonard-Hagler, I've had Leonard winning by 117-112 and 116-113 margins. And I was not at all influenced by the comentators who kept referring to Leonard fading in the second half of the fight. I really liked what Leonard's people did after the fight. When Hagler's people filed an official complaint against judge Jose Guerra for scoring the bout what they considered a ridiculous 118-110 Leonard, Leonard's people retaliated by filing a complaint against judge Lou Filippo for scoring the bout what they considered a ridiculous 115-113 for Hagler.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 02 Sep 2005, 01:03

I agree with you seamus. I love Hagler but everytime I watch his bout with Leonard I cant help but score for Leonard. Hagler dug such a hole for himself by trying to box orthodox over the first four rounds and by trying to be flashy that he simply fought like a duck out of water. He looked uncomfortable. I cant give him a single round out of the first four and you cant tell me Leonard didnt do enough to take three more of the remaining 8. That gives Leonard the edge. Everytime I watch that fight I want Hagler to win but he doesnt.

Boxer-Slugger · Post by **Boxer-Slugger** » 02 Sep 2005, 01:45

The worst decision ive ever seen was done by a referee.

It was November 27th 1998, referee Denis Langlois was refereeing the Stephane Ouellet-Davey Hilton Fight at the then Molson Center in Montréal Canada.

Ouellet was winning on pts entering the 12th and final round, by the end of the round, i'd say around 20 seconds left, Hilton punched Ouellet that backed him up towards the corner of the ring and while they scuffled, Ouellet was eating 2 right hooks and then his head is out of the ropes.

Originally, the referee stops the action, separates the fighters and lets the other fighter get his head back in and resume the action but no, Denis Langlois stops the action, separates the fighters and then he waves it off and awards a KO win to Davey Hilton. He is the worst referee in history of this sport along with Dan Kelly (the Augustus-Burton Ref).

Petu v.d. Pajm · Post by **Petu v.d. Pajm** » 02 Sep 2005, 03:03

The VERY worst robberies are to be found in lower profile fights :

Try

Bruno Wartelle vs. Pablo Sarmiento
Bernard Paul vs. Felix Bwalya

12-round fights where it is almost impossible to find the afore-mentioned winners winning more than 2-3 rounds at MOST!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 02 Sep 2005, 05:18

Whittaker-Ramirez...

Everyone mentions the Chavez figth but this was worse.

My Grandparents claim Bugner's voctory over Henry Cooper was a robbery but I have only seen highlights and know how popular Henry was so I'm not sure if to believe them.

jyuza · Post by **jyuza** » 02 Sep 2005, 05:28

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i dont think hagler-leonard was a robbery, watch the fight again, and ull see everytime u watch it it gets closer and closer. it was a very close fight IMO. it could have gone either way.

the last round was the difference in my scorecard, i had leonard winning it making it 115-114.

Yeah but i said Hearns / Leonard not Hagler (since i still don't saw the fight).
Hearns knocked down two times leonard and still got a draw...... well Hearns was very cool after he heard the result and i don't understant at all.

Petu v.d. Pajm · Post by **Petu v.d. Pajm** » 02 Sep 2005, 07:44

Hearns-Leonard 2 was far away from robbery. While Hearns knocked Leonard down twice, he was also so badly wobbled, hurt and bombarded in two separate rounds that there was a valid point making them 2-point rounds for Leonard evening up 10-8 scores (I did score that way).

And they pretty much split the rest of the rounds making a draw a very fair result. MAYBE Hearns would have deserved a win slightly more than SRL, but you could make a very solid round-by-round arguments for a scorecard ending up as a narrow Leonard win.

Most other much-ballyhooed robberies are similar cases. Majority of people feel for some reason that the fighter who deserved to win did not win. While that may be the case, it does not mean : "ROBBERY!!!", 'cause in almost each of those cases, it ends up as an argument how to determine 1-3 very close rounds and nothing clear-cut has been judged wrongly.

Robbery IMO is a fight where one fighter absolutely dominantly wins more than half of the rounds or scores enough counts that 2-point rounds should alone be enough to win and STILL judges (or single referee in British rings) gift the win to an opponent (or a draw).

Just 'cause you disagree with the result does not make it a robbery. Just 'cause 90% of audience disagree with the result does not make it a robbery.

The lithmus test for robbery is that you watch it again and ONLY score the rounds where you can find no argument whatsoever to score it differently than you did. If you end up with a margin larger than possible to turn around by winning all "non-scored" rounds by 10-9 then you have a case worth calling a "robbery"

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 02 Sep 2005, 08:01

Said it before....Joey Curtis stopping the Mike Weaver v. Michael Dokes fight.

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 02 Sep 2005, 22:37

vagabundo55 wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i dont think hagler-leonard was a robbery, watch the fight again, and ull see everytime u watch it it gets closer and closer. it was a very close fight IMO. it could have gone either way.

the last round was the difference in my scorecard, i had leonard winning it making it 115-114.
I respect your opinion.. but I have to say.. each time I see that fight I see Hagler getting robbed.

Hagler wasn't so much robbed as the judges were "awed" and "impressed" by Leonard's obvious "shoe-shine" punches. Watch closely a lot of his flurries - they're off Hagler's elbow & arms.
This fight was very similar in scoring to Vargas/Wright. The two judges were more impressed by Varga's vaunted "power" that they over-looked all the great work Winky was doing. Winky's fault was not finishing strong in the 12th.
Hagler's fault was not keeping Leonard on the ropes when he got him there.
Obviously in both fights there were swing rounds that observers scored one way or another.
p.s. IMO, respectfully.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 03 Sep 2005, 01:43

Fenech - Nelson, first fight. Still makes me angry :x

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 03 Sep 2005, 12:48

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:vagabundo, when fights are that close people tend to see different things. and this is one fight where people will never tend to agree who won.

i scored leonard hagler 4 times,

here are my score cards

1st time: 115-114 Leonard

2nd time : 114-114 EVEN

3rd Time : 115-113 Hagler

4th time: 115-114 Leonard

veyr hard fight to score IMO. u see how i went from hagler winning, back to leonard winning.

Yeah. That's one of those fights which will be forever controversial. It's understandable I guess... Anyway if people didn't have different views.. there'd be nothing to talk about.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Sep 2005, 13:01

iceman21287 wrote:Though I haven't seen the fight, I have heard that the Middleweight title fight between Joey Giardello and Rubin Carter was a huge robbing.

From what I have read and heard Joey Giardellos win over Carter was a fair and just result.

I understand Joey Giardellos family won a lawsuit against the makers of the Carter film The Hurricane for making it look like Carter got robbed in that fight.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 03 Sep 2005, 14:54

Slugger O'Toole -v- Henry Wharton.

O'Toole boxed the knickers off Wharton & the ref raised Wharton's hand at the end of the bout; terrible decision!

Seasoned Veteran · Post by **Seasoned Veteran** » 03 Sep 2005, 19:21

bollox wrote:Fenech - Nelson, first fight. Still makes me angry :x

Fully agree. Total scandal that night, Nelson could barely stand after being pummeled for the full fight.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 04 Sep 2005, 01:46

I can't believe that people are still going on about Leonard - Hagler!

That was a close fight, that was a split decision & could have gone either way, depending on whether you like a plodder or a flash speedster.

It's hardly the biggest robbery in boxing.