Dear God

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 18 Apr 2012, 13:47

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1724 ... ns?start=1

Lee Groves Top 10 Middleweight champions. If you think #10 is egregious, and it damn sure is, wait until you hit #7. I like Lee well enough, I hope he isn't ill.

chucktaylor · Post by **chucktaylor** » 18 Apr 2012, 14:04

What ever could you mean?
Ahh, I see. You think Groves gave too little credit to #10 and #7. I totally agree! Who the hell are those guys he has at #9 and #6?

In all seriousness, WTF was Groves thinking?!

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 18 Apr 2012, 14:09

chucktaylor wrote:What ever could you mean?
Ahh, I see. You think Groves gave too little credit to #10 and #7. I totally agree! Who the hell are those guys he has at #9 and #6?

In all seriousness, WTF was Groves thinking?!

I never thought I'd read an all time Top 10 list and long for Antuofermo or Minter to be on it.

Jaywheel · Post by **Jaywheel** » 18 Apr 2012, 14:17

I wonder what made Sturm drop just below SRR...

Adamj1987 · Post by **Adamj1987** » 18 Apr 2012, 14:20

Jaywheel wrote:I wonder what made Sturm drop just below SRR...

His 2 fights vs murray and macklin wernt convincing enough otherwise number2

giacomino · Post by **giacomino** » 18 Apr 2012, 15:35

His stirring defenses against Jamie Pittman, Noe Alcoba, Koji Sato and Ronald Hearns and his domination of future hall-of-famer Zbik guaranteed Sturm a spot in the top 10. Interesting that he's ranked #7 all-time by The Ring but only #5 currently by boxrec. Where is Chavez Jr. and Danny Geale on that list?

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 18 Apr 2012, 15:53

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 18 Apr 2012, 15:56

After a little reflection I think I can say with certainty that Sturm's placement is the worst I've ever seen on any list, from ANYONE. Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather as the greatest fighter ever is quite reasonable compared to this. Sturm is the only thing that keeps Abraham's placement from being the worst ever.

BigJuicyHog · Post by **BigJuicyHog** » 18 Apr 2012, 16:15

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:After a little reflection I think I can say with certainty that Sturm's placement is the worst I've ever seen on any list, from ANYONE. Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather as the greatest fighter ever is quite reasonable compared to this. Sturm is the only thing that keeps Abraham's placement from being the worst ever.

I thought the exact same thing look at the list

The only thing worse was when TML said Molitor was possibly the greatest of Canadian fighters.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 18 Apr 2012, 16:28

I never saw that. Yes, Molitor over Langford & McClarnin is worse.

BigJuicyHog · Post by **BigJuicyHog** » 18 Apr 2012, 16:48

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

I never saw that. Yes, Molitor over Langford & McClarnin is worse.

He actually argued (I think it was with Sockdolager) about Molitor being better than Langford.

I will see if I can find the thread.

BigJuicyHog · Post by **BigJuicyHog** » 18 Apr 2012, 16:52

Here it is

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 06&start=0

Read through the entire thread for full effect. He also say that Langford was highly thought of as a HW, but is not a P4P great.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 18 Apr 2012, 16:59

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

I never saw that. Yes, Molitor over Langford & McClarnin is worse.

I dont think you were with us yet, but I remember it.

You never forget where you were at moments like that. Funnily enough, TML was a disturbingly devoted fan of Sturm's. He'd be proud of this list.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 18 Apr 2012, 17:00

BigJuicyHog wrote:Here it is

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 06&start=0

Read through the entire thread for full effect. He also say that Langford was highly thought of as a HW, but is not a P4P great.

Good man

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 18 Apr 2012, 17:21

I just read a bit of it.

He calls Sockdolager's assertion that Langford is among the top-5 all-timers, "the most retarded thing said in BoxRec history and maybe the collective history of the internet." Then he threatens to involve the site owners because an opinion that bad, "degrades the site."

Suddenly, I have a new-found respect for Elmer.

giacomino · Post by **giacomino** » 18 Apr 2012, 18:25

TML also famously once said Sturm would easily beat Monzon because Monzon "only beat Argentine cab drivers." I am sure TML would be appalled to see Monzon rated above his man

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 18 Apr 2012, 19:03

My computer is slow as hell, and I haven't got the patience to sit here and wait 10 minutes for each individual screen to load up. I saw Arthur Abraham was the #10 entry. Who fills out the remaining Top 9?

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 19 Apr 2012, 00:19

gilgamesh wrote:My computer is slow as hell, and I haven't got the patience to sit here and wait 10 minutes for each individual screen to load up. I saw Arthur Abraham was the #10 entry. Who fills out the remaining Top 9?

Sturm is #7, Hopkins was #1.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 19 Apr 2012, 12:28

Lee Groves can be e-mailed at [email protected]. Groves is a boxing writer and historian based in Friendly, West Virginia. He is a full member of the BWAA, from which he has won five writing awards, and an elector for the International Boxing Hall of Fame. He is also a writer, researcher and punch-counter for CompuBox, Inc

Tell him what you think boys

giacomino · Post by **giacomino** » 19 Apr 2012, 13:34

klompton wrote:Lee Groves can be e-mailed at [email protected]. Groves is a boxing writer and historian based in Friendly, West Virginia. He is a full member of the BWAA, from which he has won five writing awards, and an elector for the International Boxing Hall of Fame. He is also a writer, researcher and punch-counter for CompuBox, Inc

Tell him what you think boys

Well, I guess we know he'll be voting to put Sturm and Abraham in the HOF

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 19 Apr 2012, 15:51

Its pretty disturbing to think someone like that is a Hall member.

It really is.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 19 Apr 2012, 21:35

Hopkins is definitely one of the great Middleweight Champions, but I wouldn't put him at #1, I'd have Monzon and Hagler in the Top 2 spots respectively, Hopkins probably #3 behind them. Sturm and Abraham wouldn't make my list.

JDC · Post by **JDC** » 19 Apr 2012, 22:27

Without the protection they'd both have a record like Sumbu Kalambay.

Imagine if they were ten years older: RJJ, Nunn, Toney, Eubank, Benn, McCallum, Graham, Watson, Collins, McClellan

They wouldn't even win a EBU eliminator

JDC · Post by **JDC** » 19 Apr 2012, 22:35

I do wonder if the writer was meaning ''Best Title Reigns'', rather than ''Best Champions'' - It would make more sense (even if it would be a bullshit concept)

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 19 Apr 2012, 23:18

Part of me thinks Groves must have gotten bored and just wanted to see the reaction this got. I can't imagine a sane even semi-historian making this crap. He says at the beginning he ranked on quality of opp and number of title defenses, and then plays a bogus "hey boxing can be like baseball with statistics" game where opponent's win-loss percentages (which mean NOTHING in this day and age, as anyone with a brain knows) and number of title defenses (also meaningless, esp. when counting paper trinkets like he does) are all that matters . . seemingly not using any sane, qualitative analysis whatsoever.

By this criteria Sven Ottke and Johnny Nelson are lb for lb greats . . .it's just beyond stupid to have a guy like Abraham over a Micket Walker b/c AA is in a very weak era in which paper belts can be won by almost anybody and are defended vs bums to sell-out crowds in Germany and Walker excelled in a MUCH MUCH deeper era in which title defenses were much rarer relatively and fighters fought many non-title bouts vs A class comp in between defending the title. Again, he must know he's full of it at least on some level.

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