Prime Tyson Vs Prime Foreman, who wins?
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Max Molyneux
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Prime Tyson Vs Prime Foreman, who wins?
Two big punchers although Tyson was more skilled in his prime.
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sharkeysboy
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I have this theory that the stand up straight slugger was Tyson's kryptonite. In other words, I don't see the Dougas debacle as a fluke but the result of certain boxing laws. If you lead with your head, eventually somebody will hit it hard enough for you to go down. That's why Marciano's record is so amazing. He led with his head but never went down. So following that logic, I see Tyson going the same route as Frazier. KO in the first.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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no both tyson and marciano had different stlyes of defense. marcianos style of defense prevented him from getting hit flush a lot, and tysons style was to make the opponent miss and he counters.
marciano didnt use his head as a defense, neither did tyson.
Rocky's awkwardness was actually one of Marciano's strengths. Many found his unorthodox way of fighting very difficult to cope with - even masters of the game like Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore all found it hard to land a clean shot on Rocky. He was just so slippery. Rocky would slip the jab and get inside, weaving and ducking, throwing hard punches from all sorts of angles. he would come in inch by inch, leaning backwards and slightly to the right, gloves high and chin down. The whole point of this was to make himself a smaller target. Once inside, Rocky was a real terror. He would constantly be moving his head, up and down, rolling around, side to side, backwards and forwards, getting in his low crouch, and he'd come in with hard punches from different angles.
as for tyson, when he was with kevin rooney, he was a very scientific fighter. he would keep his hands by his head and duck, bob and weave, get really low, and fire the counter uppercuts or hooks to the body. he was hard to hit cause he got so low at times. he had certain head comibinations he used to do and he would do them in a fight over and over again and the opponent didnt know which one he would do. he was made for the peek a boo style. tyson made his opponents pay when they missed with a shot.
so if foreman misses watch for tyson to use his quick hands to fire at the body or uppercut to the chin. foreman threw long lopping punches sometimes too wide and tyson if he gets low and dodges them can easily get inside and if he does foreman is in trouble and he could take out foreman right there. i dont know what would happen here. if foreman stands up to tyson and takes a couple hard punches and is still in there punching, it could get to tysons head.
i think tyson had a worse style against foreman than frazier, with tysons only advantage being he can hit with both hands and if he gets inside hell do damage. hell need to really use his head fakes and double jabs well to get inside and set up hard hooks and uppercuts. tyson also could be hit with an uppercut at times and foreman could take advantage of that.
the best swarrmer style to fight foreman is getting low and in crouch, and working ur way inside and wearing him down.
Foreman Ko 5 but if tyson knocked him out , i could see it happening.
marciano didnt use his head as a defense, neither did tyson.
Rocky's awkwardness was actually one of Marciano's strengths. Many found his unorthodox way of fighting very difficult to cope with - even masters of the game like Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore all found it hard to land a clean shot on Rocky. He was just so slippery. Rocky would slip the jab and get inside, weaving and ducking, throwing hard punches from all sorts of angles. he would come in inch by inch, leaning backwards and slightly to the right, gloves high and chin down. The whole point of this was to make himself a smaller target. Once inside, Rocky was a real terror. He would constantly be moving his head, up and down, rolling around, side to side, backwards and forwards, getting in his low crouch, and he'd come in with hard punches from different angles.
as for tyson, when he was with kevin rooney, he was a very scientific fighter. he would keep his hands by his head and duck, bob and weave, get really low, and fire the counter uppercuts or hooks to the body. he was hard to hit cause he got so low at times. he had certain head comibinations he used to do and he would do them in a fight over and over again and the opponent didnt know which one he would do. he was made for the peek a boo style. tyson made his opponents pay when they missed with a shot.
so if foreman misses watch for tyson to use his quick hands to fire at the body or uppercut to the chin. foreman threw long lopping punches sometimes too wide and tyson if he gets low and dodges them can easily get inside and if he does foreman is in trouble and he could take out foreman right there. i dont know what would happen here. if foreman stands up to tyson and takes a couple hard punches and is still in there punching, it could get to tysons head.
i think tyson had a worse style against foreman than frazier, with tysons only advantage being he can hit with both hands and if he gets inside hell do damage. hell need to really use his head fakes and double jabs well to get inside and set up hard hooks and uppercuts. tyson also could be hit with an uppercut at times and foreman could take advantage of that.
the best swarrmer style to fight foreman is getting low and in crouch, and working ur way inside and wearing him down.
Foreman Ko 5 but if tyson knocked him out , i could see it happening.
Tyson is made to order for a prime Foreman - (a la Frazier) -
While Tyson would destory a stand up boxer like Lennox Lewis in his prime - That is because Lennox would fight backing up trying to box - Tyson feasted on these type guys -
Foreman would stand and trade - and he would land!! - Big George KO's Tyson early - (but in a very exciting fight) -
The fact is much of the talk about Tyson using head movement more during his younger years is a lot of smoke - last week I watched about 10 of Tyson's early fights - Pre Champion days and right after winning the title - Yes, Tyson bobbed his head....but he constantly got hit when the other fighter decided to throw punches back -
He ate jabs and hooks all the time in his younger days - The fact is he just put so much pressure on guys most of them wouldn't throw back.....Foreman would have!
While Tyson would destory a stand up boxer like Lennox Lewis in his prime - That is because Lennox would fight backing up trying to box - Tyson feasted on these type guys -
Foreman would stand and trade - and he would land!! - Big George KO's Tyson early - (but in a very exciting fight) -
The fact is much of the talk about Tyson using head movement more during his younger years is a lot of smoke - last week I watched about 10 of Tyson's early fights - Pre Champion days and right after winning the title - Yes, Tyson bobbed his head....but he constantly got hit when the other fighter decided to throw punches back -
He ate jabs and hooks all the time in his younger days - The fact is he just put so much pressure on guys most of them wouldn't throw back.....Foreman would have!
I totally disagree. Iron Mike would have KO'd Big George when both fighters were in there prime.
I liked Foreman, he was awesome and very powerful. Tyson was an animal in 88/89. IMO, nobody not even Ali, Marciano, Foreman, Dempsey, Liston, Lewis or Holmes would have won.
Punches with Bad Intensions.
OK, maybe Dempsey or Marciano may have stood more of a chance, but Foreman was a stationary target.
Prime Frazier and Prime Tyson are not alike at all.
I liked Foreman, he was awesome and very powerful. Tyson was an animal in 88/89. IMO, nobody not even Ali, Marciano, Foreman, Dempsey, Liston, Lewis or Holmes would have won.
Punches with Bad Intensions.
OK, maybe Dempsey or Marciano may have stood more of a chance, but Foreman was a stationary target.
Prime Frazier and Prime Tyson are not alike at all.
It's simply one of those dream fights that is extremey hard to pick because of the punching power of both guys. George has all the physical advantages and if he uses the heightnd reach and can snap that powerful jab accurately at Mike, he could then set him up for the KO....If Mike gets thru the jab, he has a great chance because of the speed of his punches. I'd bet on a peak Tyson to do the job, but I'm far from confident.....George's chin was great, and Mike's temperament was very suspect
Loki, let's not over exaggerate, Tyson was very good but lacked character in the ring. If an opponent hit back, Tyson didn't know what to do. Holyfield proved this. Mike had not got the true heart of an Ali, Holmes, Louis, Marciano, Frazier or Foreman. So an Ali would definitely have been a match because he had the mental strength and confidence..... Mike always had a punchers chance, nobody can argue with that. But what happens when the guy is still there after taking the shots???...Tucker and Bonecrusher would have beat Mike if they had half the confidence of the true heavyweight greats. I firmly believe that......Spinks was scared shitless of Tyson, like most of his opponents....
This should get this thread motivated. I beleive that Foreman was willing to take this fight, at least thats what I have read. The money would have been big.
Until recently I would have thought it would have been an easy win for Mike. Did Mike's crew see something we didnt?
Why did this fight not happen? Do I have my facts right? because I think George went looking for this fight and could not make it happen.
Historians? Can you set me straight on this?
Until recently I would have thought it would have been an easy win for Mike. Did Mike's crew see something we didnt?
Why did this fight not happen? Do I have my facts right? because I think George went looking for this fight and could not make it happen.
Historians? Can you set me straight on this?
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Rory McCloskey
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Seasoned Veteran
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I remember reading that Cus D'Amato always told Tyson that Foreman would have killed Tyson in the ring. The power of George was one thing but it was the height that would have given Mike grief.
I think George would have been difficult for any boxer to beat and that he should have destroyed Ali in Zaire if he had had the right amount of training and was advised better during the fight.
I think George would have been difficult for any boxer to beat and that he should have destroyed Ali in Zaire if he had had the right amount of training and was advised better during the fight.
Foreman crushses Tyson in 1 or 2 rounds just like Frazier.
Foreman was an incredibly strong man, and he could punch like no one else since. One uppercut, one clip on Tysons chin and lights out for him, Tyson don't have the chin (Foremen did), and he ducked and weaved like Frazier and we all know what Foreman did with him, twice.
cheers M.O.
Foreman was an incredibly strong man, and he could punch like no one else since. One uppercut, one clip on Tysons chin and lights out for him, Tyson don't have the chin (Foremen did), and he ducked and weaved like Frazier and we all know what Foreman did with him, twice.
cheers M.O.
Foreman would CRUSH Tyson 9 out of 10 times and here are my reasons for thinking this.
(1) Mental strength. Foreman coped with fear better that Tyson in this fight I would not be surprised if Tyson was intimidated by Big George. During the referees instructions I can just imagine Tyson looking up into Georges cold killer eyes and thinking "Oh crap, what am I doing here?". It would then be all two easy for Tysons inner mental fragility to surface.
(2) Tysons bob and wave. This style would have little effect on Foreman as Foreman would just push him bag with those big strong arms of his. Tyson was never able to fight on the back foot. This would also keep Tyson within Foremans 'dangerzone' and allow Foreman to land his own clubbing, crushing shots.
(3) Pre-Frazier Foreman was not quite the wild swinging, crude fighter some seem to remember him as. Foreman had an accurate, very hard jab which wasn't the fasted jab ever but was well timed and very effective. His attacks could be a lot more accurate and well thought out that the wild punches he used against Ali. I allways felt that after Foreman destroyed Frazier with such ease he neglected his skills and he felt he could just woulk through anyone.
Tyson with his power and speed would of course always be dangerous but I just can't seeing him KO'ing Foreman.
(1) Mental strength. Foreman coped with fear better that Tyson in this fight I would not be surprised if Tyson was intimidated by Big George. During the referees instructions I can just imagine Tyson looking up into Georges cold killer eyes and thinking "Oh crap, what am I doing here?". It would then be all two easy for Tysons inner mental fragility to surface.
(2) Tysons bob and wave. This style would have little effect on Foreman as Foreman would just push him bag with those big strong arms of his. Tyson was never able to fight on the back foot. This would also keep Tyson within Foremans 'dangerzone' and allow Foreman to land his own clubbing, crushing shots.
(3) Pre-Frazier Foreman was not quite the wild swinging, crude fighter some seem to remember him as. Foreman had an accurate, very hard jab which wasn't the fasted jab ever but was well timed and very effective. His attacks could be a lot more accurate and well thought out that the wild punches he used against Ali. I allways felt that after Foreman destroyed Frazier with such ease he neglected his skills and he felt he could just woulk through anyone.
Tyson with his power and speed would of course always be dangerous but I just can't seeing him KO'ing Foreman.
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The Great John L
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Syntax Error
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Foreman/Tyson
The way Big George Foreman clubbed Joe Frazier around the ring, I could see him doing the same to Mike Tyson.
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Syntax Error
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Re: Foreman/Tyson
Even more easily IMO. Tyson would not have had the heart to keep getting up like Joe did.wlvrne wrote:The way Big George Foreman clubbed Joe Frazier around the ring, I could see him doing the same to Mike Tyson.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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yeah, for a swarmer to beat foreman, he would have to have a good chin and fight out of a crouch, i think dempsey and marciano had much better chance of surviving late and stopping foreman than tyson and frazier.
one thing tyson did have was the handspeed, if foreman misses one of his big bombs, tyson could put his lights out with his hand speed powr punches
one thing tyson did have was the handspeed, if foreman misses one of his big bombs, tyson could put his lights out with his hand speed powr punches
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HomicideHenry
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well depends on alot of things. a prime tyson in my mind was in 1986 when he flattened Berbick. and foreman when he crushed Frazier in 1972.
Tyson was Dempsey-like in his prime, constantly bobbing and weaving and used uppercuts, body punches---rather than be the head hunter he would later become.
Foreman was huge for his era being 6'4" and 225lbs, his strength was phenomenal and his jab, when he used it, was a dangerous weapon, but Foreman was alot like Max Baer, forever chasing the kayo and trying to knock somebody's head off.
BUT if george foreman of 1972 had the smarts of george foreman in 1994, Tyson would be destroyed inside of 5 rounds.
But if just by going alone on their primes, and their weaknesses and strengths at the time---both were undefeated, both were very fierce, and both had that intimidation factor. It would be like LISTON vs LISTON, its kind of hard to tell.
BUT in my mind, Foreman was bigger---and Tyson always had problems with much taller men (Lewis, Smith i.e.), and Foreman cut off the ring and he hardly stepped back from an opponent. Besides Foreman in his prime carried a 98% kayo average, and even when he retired in 1997 his kayo percentile was a remarkably high 87%.
I would say Foreman would beat Tyson inside of 8 rounds.
Tyson was Dempsey-like in his prime, constantly bobbing and weaving and used uppercuts, body punches---rather than be the head hunter he would later become.
Foreman was huge for his era being 6'4" and 225lbs, his strength was phenomenal and his jab, when he used it, was a dangerous weapon, but Foreman was alot like Max Baer, forever chasing the kayo and trying to knock somebody's head off.
BUT if george foreman of 1972 had the smarts of george foreman in 1994, Tyson would be destroyed inside of 5 rounds.
But if just by going alone on their primes, and their weaknesses and strengths at the time---both were undefeated, both were very fierce, and both had that intimidation factor. It would be like LISTON vs LISTON, its kind of hard to tell.
BUT in my mind, Foreman was bigger---and Tyson always had problems with much taller men (Lewis, Smith i.e.), and Foreman cut off the ring and he hardly stepped back from an opponent. Besides Foreman in his prime carried a 98% kayo average, and even when he retired in 1997 his kayo percentile was a remarkably high 87%.
I would say Foreman would beat Tyson inside of 8 rounds.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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HomicideHenry
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Ali was 6'3" and if you watch the RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE foreman was clearly a bit slightly taller---I would say he was 6'31/2" to 6'4" as far as weight goes when he beat Frazier he was 215 pounds---but in his prime his weight fluctuated anywhere from 215-225.
Plus figure this, everybody says Tyson was better than Foreman cause he threw punches with bad intentions...well so did George. He blew away Norton in 2 rounds, about knocked Wepner's eye out of its socket, blew away Frazier in 2 rounds; I mean ffs he took on 5 top ten contenders in 1975 in a single night, all five men were KO'd in 12 rounds combined!
Tyson in his prime never fought anyone who was as great as the foes Foreman fought, thats another key factor.
Plus figure this, everybody says Tyson was better than Foreman cause he threw punches with bad intentions...well so did George. He blew away Norton in 2 rounds, about knocked Wepner's eye out of its socket, blew away Frazier in 2 rounds; I mean ffs he took on 5 top ten contenders in 1975 in a single night, all five men were KO'd in 12 rounds combined!
Tyson in his prime never fought anyone who was as great as the foes Foreman fought, thats another key factor.
Went back and looked up Foreman's record in his first career. He actually weighed as much as 231 1/2 for Dino Dennis and was 229 for the Young fight. Even before the first Frazier fight, he was as high as 225 for some winless dude named Murphy that he KO'd in 2.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:foremans peak height and weight were actually 6'3 217lbs
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Rocky Balboa
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Tyson, and easier than some people would think! Mike had great handspeed, footspeed & head movement. Foreman had none of those attributes.
People have said late in his career, Mike relied on his power & intimidation a great deal - Big George relied on this as his peak. Tyson was a much better boxer, better defensive fighter.
Obviously, there's a danger with any1 with a prime Foreman's power, but if George did not land cleanly, he's not winning! Also, Tyson had a great chin, Foreman was knocked out by Ali, who was not known for his puching power!
My pick is Tyson by TKO round 4.
People have said late in his career, Mike relied on his power & intimidation a great deal - Big George relied on this as his peak. Tyson was a much better boxer, better defensive fighter.
Obviously, there's a danger with any1 with a prime Foreman's power, but if George did not land cleanly, he's not winning! Also, Tyson had a great chin, Foreman was knocked out by Ali, who was not known for his puching power!
My pick is Tyson by TKO round 4.
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Ambling Alp
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Foreman was knocked out by Ali because of exhaustion and accumliation of clean blows. It wasn't because he had glass jaw or anything like that.In a way that is similar to what happened to Tyson against Douglas. Douglas wasn't a particularly hard puncher. Foreman couldn't knockout Ali, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't ko Tyson.
Foreman also had underrated boxing skills as well. Foreman may have been able to weather the sorm if he did get nailed by Tyson. there is no way that Tyson would be able to comeback and win if he was hurt. He never did it in his whole career. Foreman would probably stop Tyson within 5 rounds.
Foreman also had underrated boxing skills as well. Foreman may have been able to weather the sorm if he did get nailed by Tyson. there is no way that Tyson would be able to comeback and win if he was hurt. He never did it in his whole career. Foreman would probably stop Tyson within 5 rounds.
Strongly disagree, they both have very good chins but Foremans stoppage lose to Ali was due more to heat and exhaustion from punching himself out. Then Ali cuaght him with a sharp right hand, and the rest is history..... Douglas was no Earnie Shavers but he stopped Tyson to.Rocky Balboa wrote: Also, Tyson had a great chin, Foreman was knocked out by Ali, who was not known for his puching power!.
If Foreman had a weak chin he would have never have survived those huge bombs of big hitting Ron Lyle.