Lightweights: Henry Armstrong vs Roberto Duran

[Goodnight, Irene]

And again, Elmer changes viewpoints.

Anyone keeping a count on these?

[scotto]

that list that was submitted who could beat armstrong ? one name was omitted jerry mcgee who fought out nyc from 1943 to 1947 look him up and tell me if you would add him to your list. listen this is all in fun but i would love to know why armstrong is so knocked?

[Jake Hughes]

That image of an endlessly forward fighting, ceaselessly punching Armstrong encroaching onto a snarling-and loving-it circa June-20th-1980- Duran is just too much to hold...what a burner. Duran would just love this sort of fight too much surely? Duran by decision.

What the truly great Hammerin Hank surely can't do though is what no other could ever do except Duran. That's have a full 60 plus fight career as an all time great Lightweight before then going on to beat Leonard at Welter. To then suffer one of THE losses in boxing and follow it up with consecutive losses to Benitez and Laing would have finished even those most consistently more celebrated and vaunted "comeback" kings that we always have listed for us.

In between those two Title fights that he then goes on to win, which I shan’t even name to save the angst of Goodnight, Irene, an out of shape and laden Duran shows us all (esp Leonard!) the limitations of Hagler at Middlweight before then suffering yet another one of THE losses to Hearns. This a man that would still be throwing leather in 2001 and yet doesn’t even feature in Top Ten lists for both "Greatest Career Comebacks" or "Boxing's Greatest Methuselah’s" as put together by Bert Sugar and Teddy Atlas in their last book. :!: ,

Oooooh but that Armstrong and Duran fight man ......

[BoxBuzz]

Hold on

G.I. Has told us all that Duran is plain and simply, over rated.

And then you march in to this forum and go all crazy slingin sensibility around like it grows on trees.

I suggest you Cease your irreverent ramblings now, or prepare to face the dire consequences.

[Jake Hughes]

Hold on

G.I. Has told us all that Duran is plain and simply, over rated.

And then you march in to this forum and go all crazy slingin sensibility around like it grows on trees.

I suggest you Cease your irreverent ramblings now, or prepare to face the dire consequences.

It's OK BoxBuzz, I seeked placation by quoting his name mid ramblings. We know its the sight of his own name and sense of relevance that fires him. Whoops Im guessing that should be the manlier D

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Both in there primes, I'd take Armstrong by a close 15 round decision.

Marvin Hagler, Gene Fullmer nor Carlos Monzon at middleweight.

Hold on, past the ridiculous notion of bothering to list Middleweights that a small Welterweight would lose to, Gene Fullmer is not even among your top 100 fighters. Why did he come to mind so quickly? Would Armstrong beat Burley, Walker, Zale, Steele, Williams, Booker, etc.? What brings such an also ran up?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Hold on

G.I. Has told us all that Duran is plain and simply, over rated.

And then you march in to this forum and go all crazy slingin sensibility around like it grows on trees.

I suggest you Cease your irreverent ramblings now, or prepare to face the dire consequences.

It's OK BoxBuzz, I seeked placation by quoting his name mid ramblings. We know its the sight of his own name and sense of relevance that fires him. Whoops Im guessing that should be the manlier D

"I seeked placation"

[Jake Hughes]

Hold on

G.I. Has told us all that Duran is plain and simply, over rated.

And then you march in to this forum and go all crazy slingin sensibility around like it grows on trees.

I suggest you Cease your irreverent ramblings now, or prepare to face the dire consequences.

It's OK BoxBuzz, I seeked placation by quoting his name mid ramblings. We know its the sight of his own name and sense of relevance that fires him. Whoops Im guessing that should be the manlier D

"I seeked placation"

Whoops ! I guess that really does mean that I have seeked what I sought !

[BoxBuzz]

Seek forgiveness
Or vengeance shall be sought.

[dempseyfire]

Both in there primes, I'd take Armstrong by a close 15 round decision.

You must be out of your mind. It takes more than an all out attack to overwhelm and beat Duran. Guys like Armstrong were perfect for him. Guys that came forward to really fight. It would be an interesting scrap, but Armstrong would not cope with a complete and intelligent fighter like Duran.

As a matter of fact, I don't see Armstrong beating these guys:
Alexis Arguello, Eusebio Pedroza nor Salvador Sanchez at featherweight
Sugar Ray Leonard nor Kid Gavilan at welterweight
Thomas Hearns nor Mike McCallum nor Julian Jackson at super welter
Marvin Hagler, Gene Fullmer nor Carlos Monzon at middleweight.

Now we're talking about lightweights, Armstrong loses to:
Joe Brown
Carlos Ortiz
Ismael Laguna
Nicolino Locche
Roberto Duran

Armstrong lose to Laguna, Ortiz and Locche????

Hagler, Fullmer or Monzon at middleweight??? And what's your point . .Duran sure as hell ain't (and didn't in Hagler's case) beating them either, nor is any lightweight.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You missed the part where Ken Buchanan boxes Armstrong's ears off, as well.

Remember, this is a guy who is going to struggle to beat Saoul Mamby, so Elmer is reliably consistent

[elmersalsa]

Both in there primes, I'd take Armstrong by a close 15 round decision.

You must be out of your mind. It takes more than an all out attack to overwhelm and beat Duran. Guys like Armstrong were perfect for him. Guys that came forward to really fight. It would be an interesting scrap, but Armstrong would not cope with a complete and intelligent fighter like Duran.

As a matter of fact, I don't see Armstrong beating these guys:
Alexis Arguello, Eusebio Pedroza nor Salvador Sanchez at featherweight
Sugar Ray Leonard nor Kid Gavilan at welterweight
Thomas Hearns nor Mike McCallum nor Julian Jackson at super welter
Marvin Hagler, Gene Fullmer nor Carlos Monzon at middleweight.

Now we're talking about lightweights, Armstrong loses to:
Joe Brown
Carlos Ortiz
Ismael Laguna
Nicolino Locche
Roberto Duran

Armstrong lose to Laguna, Ortiz and Locche????

Hagler, Fullmer or Monzon at middleweight??? And what's your point . .Duran sure as hell ain't (and didn't in Hagler's case) beating them either, nor is any lightweight.

Primitive skills like the one that Armstrong's had won't match with those guys. Boxing has been evolving since 1937.

Laguna would give Armstrong at lightweight a boxing lesson. The same Ortiz and Locche. Just look at their videos and you will see great and excellent boxing skills. Ken Buchanan would also outbox Armstrong. Too much class and speed.

A guy that just come forward, just throwing punches in bunches, without a plan B, cannot beat excellent technicians like Ortiz, Buchanan, Laguna nor Locche. Beautiful fighters styles to watch. You gotta have something extra.

My point of Armstrong fighting those middleweights, he would get stomped...And badly...It would be a mismatch. At least Duran lasted 15 rounds with the Marvelous...Did not he?

[elmersalsa]

Duran would've been all wrong for Armstrong. Lots of people don't like this, but it would've been the truth.

A guy like Armstrong cannot beat a complete fighter like Duran. Those types of guys are the type of guys that Duran loved to fight. Guys that come to him. Duran was not a brawler. He was an excellent counterpuncher and technician and could box when he had to. Armstrong? Just come forward and that was it. No class, no skill. Just come forward. How can a guy with primitive skills could beat the great Roberto Duran?

Other fighters that would have whupped Armstrong:
Luis Manuel Rodriguez at ww
Willie Pep at fw
Emile Griffith at ww and mw
Nino Benvenutti at mw
Carmen Basilio at ww
Wilfred Benitez at jw
Floyd Mayweather, Jr at lightweight or jr. lightweight.
Pernell Whitaker at lw
Julio Cesar Chavez at lw or jr lw
Charley Burley at ww
Aaron Pryor at lw or jw

[dempseyfire]

Duran would've been all wrong for Armstrong. Lots of people don't like this, but it would've been the truth.

A guy like Armstrong cannot beat a complete fighter like Duran. Those types of guys are the type of guys that Duran loved to fight. Guys that come to him. Duran was not a brawler. He was an excellent counterpuncher and technician and could box when he had to. Armstrong? Just come forward and that was it. No class, no skill. Just come forward. How can a guy with primitive skills could beat the great Roberto Duran?

Other fighters that would have whupped Armstrong:
Luis Manuel Rodriguez at ww
Willie Pep at fw
Emile Griffith at ww and mw
Nino Benvenutti at mw
Carmen Basilio at ww
Wilfred Benitez at jw
Floyd Mayweather, Jr at lightweight or jr. lightweight.
Pernell Whitaker at lw
Julio Cesar Chavez at lw or jr lw
Charley Burley at ww
Aaron Pryor at lw or jw

You are just trolling now. Armstrong was an extremely skilled pressure fighter who had just as good moves on the inside as Duran did. He was a master as slipping, countering, pacing, and knowing where and when to pinpoint his shots. He beat boxers (Ambers, Ross) who were as skilled or more as/than Duran and punchers (Garcia, Jenkins) who hit harder.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Amazing that Elmer ranks Armstrong the best fighter ever, but the name, "Duran," produces an allergo-orgasmic reaction so severe, he proceeds to absolutely trash Armstrongs name

I just did a quick re-cap of his posts, and he just cannot make up his mind. Its a great fight, then its a mismatch, he can live with someone picking Armstrong, then they're out of their mind. Then, he is saying Duran wins a 3-fight series. Now its back to Duran by shut-out. At one point, he even switches views mid-post

[elmersalsa]

So do you believe that Armstrong would have beaten someone as magnificent as Duran?

who do you pick between them in a 3-fight series?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I pick Armstrong.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I pick Armstrong.

Pffft, his primitive skills would have been exposed against Tyrone Crawley or Robin Blake. Of course by primitive I mean the greatest P4P fighter who ever lived. He just couldn't beat anyone.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I pick Armstrong.

Pffft, his primitive skills would have been exposed against Tyrone Crawley or Robin Blake. Of course by primitive I mean the greatest P4P fighter who ever lived. He just couldn't beat anyone.

[Tomasino]

Duran would've been all wrong for Armstrong. Lots of people don't like this, but it would've been the truth.

A guy like Armstrong cannot beat a complete fighter like Duran. Those types of guys are the type of guys that Duran loved to fight. Guys that come to him. Duran was not a brawler. He was an excellent counterpuncher and technician and could box when he had to. Armstrong? Just come forward and that was it. No class, no skill. Just come forward. How can a guy with primitive skills could beat the great Roberto Duran?

Other fighters that would have whupped Armstrong:
Luis Manuel Rodriguez at ww
Willie Pep at fw
Emile Griffith at ww and mw
Nino Benvenutti at mw
Carmen Basilio at ww
Wilfred Benitez at jw
Floyd Mayweather, Jr at lightweight or jr. lightweight.
Pernell Whitaker at lw
Julio Cesar Chavez at lw or jr lw
Charley Burley at ww
Aaron Pryor at lw or jw

You really, surely, hopefully can not be serious?? No class, no skill, really??

[keithmoonhangover]

Both in there primes, I'd take Armstrong by a close 15 round decision.

You must be out of your mind. It takes more than an all out attack to overwhelm and beat Duran. Guys like Armstrong were perfect for him. Guys that came forward to really fight. It would be an interesting scrap, but Armstrong would not cope with a complete and intelligent fighter like Duran.

As a matter of fact, I don't see Armstrong beating these guys:
Alexis Arguello, Eusebio Pedroza nor Salvador Sanchez at featherweight
Sugar Ray Leonard nor Kid Gavilan at welterweight
Thomas Hearns nor Mike McCallum nor Julian Jackson at super welter
Marvin Hagler, Gene Fullmer nor Carlos Monzon at middleweight.

Now we're talking about lightweights, Armstrong loses to:
Joe Brown
Carlos Ortiz
Ismael Laguna
Nicolino Locche
Roberto Duran

I love your crazy list of fighters who could 'beat' the great Henry Armstong.

One thing that puzzles me is that you missed Benny Leonard off your list.

[elmersalsa]

I pick Armstrong.

I pick Duran....End of story

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I pick Armstrong.

I pick Duran....End of story

Yup, the opponent is irrelevant.

[elmersalsa]

Both in there primes, I'd take Armstrong by a close 15 round decision.

You must be out of your mind. It takes more than an all out attack to overwhelm and beat Duran. Guys like Armstrong were perfect for him. Guys that came forward to really fight. It would be an interesting scrap, but Armstrong would not cope with a complete and intelligent fighter like Duran.

As a matter of fact, I don't see Armstrong beating these guys:
Alexis Arguello, Eusebio Pedroza nor Salvador Sanchez at featherweight
Sugar Ray Leonard nor Kid Gavilan at welterweight
Thomas Hearns nor Mike McCallum nor Julian Jackson at super welter
Marvin Hagler, Gene Fullmer nor Carlos Monzon at middleweight.

Now we're talking about lightweights, Armstrong loses to:
Joe Brown
Carlos Ortiz
Ismael Laguna
Nicolino Locche
Roberto Duran

I love your crazy list of fighters who could 'beat' the great Henry Armstong.

One thing that puzzles me is that you missed Benny Leonard off your list.

I don't go to the 1920s... I pick modern fighters from 1940s and on. and these guys are great candidates to beat the great Henry Armstrong. His achievements were out of this world, no doubt about it, but can you imagine Armstrong fighting in the 1970s for example?

Okay, he challenges the great Alexis Arguello for the World Featherweight Title...You think that Armstrong wins this one?

then, he jumps 20 pounds to fight Pipino Cuevas? this might be the easier one. And then drops weight to fight the great Roberto Duran?
You really think Armstrong, with that style beats a complete fighter like the Hands of Stone?

Armstrong has never seen nothing like Duran's style. Someone that can fight inside as well as he, but better, using angles and making his opponents miss. Duran's overall all around skills eclipses Armstrong's bumrushing style...Armstrong has NO class, just going forward and throwing punches in bunches...this ain't the 1930s...Boxing has evolved immensely since Armstrong's days. He would receive some wicked shots by Duran. And by the time the fight is over, I could picture both of his eyes shut. I could picture Armstrong saying after the fight: " I gave all I got, but this guy Duran was superior in all departments...This guy can fight!"

Let's give Duran some credit in his boxing skills, folks...He would be too much for Henry.

[elmersalsa]

Another guy that would whip Armstrong: The great Carmen Basilio.