marciano v other great heavyweights...

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 01 Sep 2005, 06:25

i dont know if this has been done before, but i think its an intresting topic.
who would you take between marciano and these heavyweights.

Muhammad Ali,
goerge foreman
lennox lewis
sonny liston
evander holyfeild
and to put someone from the current scene in,
Vitali klitshcko

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 01 Sep 2005, 06:39

LTKO late to Ali
LKO to Foreman
WKO over Lewis
LTKO middle rounds to Liston
WKO over Holyfield
WKO over Klitschko {if he can get inside and bang he wears him down)

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 03 Sep 2005, 22:18

thunderfromdownunder wrote:i dont know if this has been done before, but i think its an intresting topic.
who would you take between marciano and these heavyweights.

Muhammad Ali,
goerge foreman
lennox lewis
sonny liston
evander holyfeild
and to put someone from the current scene in,
Vitali klitshcko

Ali SD 15 Marciano
Foreman TKO 4 Marciano
Marciano KO 9 Lewis
Marciano TKO 11 Liston
Marciano TKO 14 Holyfield
Marciano KO 6 Vitali.

Seasoned Veteran · Post by **Seasoned Veteran** » 04 Sep 2005, 00:58

Muhammad Ali UD Marciano. Too slick, too big, too fast.

George Foreman KO Marciano - Assuming the early 1970's Foreman. Too powerful.

Lennox Lewis UD Marciano - Size matters.

Sonny Liston KO Marciano - Brutality in the ring. Late stoppage.

Evander Holyfield UD Marciano - Evander would be too good.

Vitali Klitschko KO Marciano - Again, too big for the Brockton Blockbuster.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 04 Sep 2005, 01:09

i like marcianofraziers and sherlocks picks.

id go with

ali close decision over marciano

marciano by late KO or foreman early KO

Marciano TKO 14 Sonny Liston

Marciano TKO 12 Hoylfield - holyfield too good for marciano??? seasoned vertand u need to watc hmarciano more. hoylfield had bad stamina problems where marciano was greta in late rounds. plus marciano was strogner, hit harder, beter defense, better conditioning and staimina, better body puncher, and just as much heart.

Marciano KO 6 Lennox Lewis- Size does not matter when ur 190lb. size matters when ur 130lb facing a 145 lb. but not 190lb facing 235 lb. and lewis was a sucke for right hands and marciano ad a deadly overhsand right aplus marciano had much more work rate and had the strength , stamina and toughness, and punch to wear lennox down.

Marciano tko 9 vitali Klitscko- this one is easy, now way vitali keeps up with marciano and vitali cant take marcianos punches ot the head and bod and arms for 15 rounds. vitlai has poor stamina and marcianos punch will hurt vitali. vitali doesnt have the heart.

seasoned verteran, ur too caught up on size, perhaps u should read more on some of the guys like dempsey marciano and louis and charles and waclott,

Seasoned Veteran · Post by **Seasoned Veteran** » 04 Sep 2005, 01:14

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i like marcianofraziers and sherlocks picks.

id go with

ali close decision over marciano

marciano by late KO or foreman early KO

Marciano TKO 14 Sonny Liston

Marciano KO 12 Hoylfield - holyfield too good for marciano??? seasoned vertand u need to watc hmarciano more. hoylfield had bad stamina problems where marciano was greta in late rounds. plus marciano was strogner, hit harder, beter defense, better conditioning and staimina, better body puncher, and just as much heart.

Marciano KO 6 Lennox Lewis- Size does not matter when ur 190lb. size matters when ur 130lb facing a 145 lb. but not 190lb facing 235 lb. and lewis was a sucke for right hands and marciano ad a deadly overhsand right aplus marciano had much more work rate and had the strength to wear lennox down.

Marciano tko 9 vitali Klitscko- this one is easy, now way vitali keeps up with marciano and vitali cant take marcianos punches ot the head and bod and arms for 15 rounds. vitlai has poor stamina and marcianos punch will hurt vitali. vitali doesnt have the heart.

seasoned verteran, ur too caught up on size, perhaps u should read more on some of the guys like dempsey marciano and louis and charles and waclott,

I may be too much of a Holyfield fan but I just couldn't see Evander losing to Marciano. Rocky would be outclassed.

Against Lewis, size would matter. 190lb is pretty small going against a bigger HW with some ability (not a lot ability but some). The same with Klitschko.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 04 Sep 2005, 04:03

rocky outclassed aainst holyfield????

i totally disagree. it would be the other way around.

in what way would holyfield outclass rocky if rocky has the strength,defense,stamina,power,and body attack advantage???

lennox lewis was a sucker for right hands. marciano had a deadly one. and lennox lewis had a problems with the smaller guys he faced.

besides rocky marciano knocked out guys lennox lewis size and never showed any problems fighting the big heavyweights, he knocked them all out. marciano has the better chin and thats importan when to big punchers meet. it wont be easy and rock could get dropped early but i hae no doubt hell prevail. lennox is way to easy to hit to beat a guy like the rock. Take a closer look at Lweis's record and you'd know that he always had trouble with smaller men

u seem to be too caught up on the nineties fighters to realize marcianos and other old fighters greatness.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 04 Sep 2005, 11:14

seasoned vet.. im gonna have to agree with brockton...your way too caught up in size and all that... no way does marciano lose to vitali klitscho who is a bum, or evander holyfield. or sonny liston or lennox lewis...heres my take

Ali- Ali KO in round 13

Foreman- Either Foreman KO him late to take the fight while down on points, or marciano pulls out the decision.

Lewis- Marciano by mid to early round KO...round 4?

Sonny Liston- either sonny gets Ko'ed from the first jab and swears it hurt him, or he gets completley outclassed for 15 round and rocky takes the UD

Evander Holyfield- holyfield would show some heart in the mid rounds..but rocky is too muhc KO in the 10

Vitali...haha rocky might not be strong enough to take the mammouth out in the early rounds but he takes him down by round 7, not losing a single round before that.

lets add some other more interesting fighters...ill name all the heavyweight title holders from dempsey to rocky...

Dempsey
Tunney
Sharkey
Schmeling
Carnera
Baer
Braddock
Louis
Ezzard
Jersey Joe

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 04 Sep 2005, 11:23

Ali- Ali by TKO in the later rounds
Foreman- Foreman TKO between 4 and 6
Lewis- Lewis UD 15
Sonny Liston- Marciano KO before 5
Evander Holyfield- Marciano KO 8-12
Vitali - Marciano mid to late round KO
Dempsey - Marciano KO 6
Tunney - Tunney UD 15
Sharkey - Mariano KO before 5
Schmeling - Marciano mid round KO
Carnera - Marciano KO before 5
Baer - Marciano mid round KO
Braddock - Marciano mid rd KO
Louis - Louis mid round TKO
Ezzard - Ezzard UD 15
Jersey Joe - JJ UD 15

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 04 Sep 2005, 11:38

Rory McCloskey wrote:

Sonny Liston- either sonny gets Ko'ed from the first jab and swears it hurt him, or he gets completley outclassed for 15 round and rocky takes the UD.

I think you are seriously underestimating Liston. Using two fights out of his 54 career bouts is not giving the full scope of Liston's abilities. And no way does the Rock outclass Liston.

On another note, I think you would be proud that today, on my birthday, I was given a biography of the "Cinderella Man." Started reading it already. Thought that might make you proud.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 04 Sep 2005, 12:41

Rory McCloskey wrote:lets add some other more interesting fighters...ill name all the heavyweight title holders from dempsey to rocky...

Dempsey
Tunney
Sharkey
Schmeling
Carnera
Baer
Braddock
Louis
Ezzard
Jersey Joe

LTKO late to Dempsey
LUD to Gene Tunney
WKO early Sharkey
LUD15 (call me crazy, but I think Schmeling can counter punch his way to a victory) to Schmeling
WKO midrounds over Carnera
LKO late rounds to Baer
WKO early over Braddock
LKO midrounds to Louis
LUD to Charles
LUD to Walcott

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 04 Sep 2005, 13:11

I'm really amazed ! Two posters pick Lewis to beat Marciano by decision, while the other five think RM would win by a knockout.

Rocky Marciano a guy who's fighting weight was usually under 190, had a reach of 67 inches, and was flattened by old Archie Moore with one punch (yes I know he got back up) and who struggled mightily against an aging Joe Walcott and who was almost stopped on cuts by Ezzard Charles (a great fighter but not a big puncher at HW) would be too strong for Lennox Lewis with his whopping 17 inch reach advantage and his 6-5 245 frame ? Marciano had tremendous heart and very good power (against the smaller hw's of his era) BUT, he wasen't exactly impossible to hit. I think if this fight were possible, the vast majority of those watching would see it as a total mismatch during the pre-fight instructions when the two stood toe to toe. That big reach advantage of Lewis' would put Marciano in a deadly No Man's Land as he tried to get inside, and even if the Rock somehow made it passed LL's long hard jab and powerful right hand, he'd probably get nailed with a wicked uppercut (a big mans' best punch against a little man) that would make Archie Moore's punch pale in comparison. 5-11 185 Marciano against 6-5 245 Lennox Lewis would be a massacre. LL inside of 3 tops.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 04 Sep 2005, 16:29

Seamus wrote:I'm really amazed ! Two posters pick Lewis to beat Marciano by decision, while the other five think RM would win by a knockout.

Rocky Marciano a guy who's fighting weight was usually under 190, had a reach of 67 inches, and was flattened by old Archie Moore with one punch (yes I know he got back up) and who struggled mightily against an aging Joe Walcott and who was almost stopped on cuts by Ezzard Charles (a great fighter but not a big puncher at HW) would be too strong for Lennox Lewis with his whopping 17 inch reach advantage and his 6-5 245 frame ? Marciano had tremendous heart and very good power (against the smaller hw's of his era) BUT, he wasen't exactly impossible to hit. I think if this fight were possible, the vast majority of those watching would see it as a total mismatch during the pre-fight instructions when the two stood toe to toe. That big reach advantage of Lewis' would put Marciano in a deadly No Man's Land as he tried to get inside, and even if the Rock somehow made it passed LL's long hard jab and powerful right hand, he'd probably get nailed with a wicked uppercut (a big mans' best punch against a little man) that would make Archie Moore's punch pale in comparison. 5-11 185 Marciano against 6-5 245 Lennox Lewis would be a massacre. LL inside of 3 tops.

Rocky Marciano a guy who's fighting weight was usually under 190, had a reach of 67 inches, and was flattened by old Archie Moore with one punch (yes I know he got back up)

What a ridiculous adjective! Marciano was hit by a hard counter right while standing on one foot, dropped forward for less than 2 seconds, hopped up immediately and won the rest of the round, and you say he was "flattened?"

Good God, what happened to Lewis against McCall and Rahman then???

who struggled mightily against an aging Joe Walcott and who was almost stopped on cuts by Ezzard Charles (a great fighter but not a big puncher at HW) would be too strong for Lennox Lewis with his whopping 17 inch reach advantage and his 6-5 245 frame ?

Walcott and Charles were tougher match-ups stylistically for Marciano than Lewis. They were small, slick guys with excellent stamina and great experience and craftiness, exactly the type of style made to trouble Marciano, and Rocky still went 4-0 against them. Besides that, the near-cut-stoppage against Charles was a fluke, a freak-of-nature one-of-a-kind incident. It's not as though you can predict in a Lewis-Marciano fight "Lewis wins by tearing Marciano's nose open." Aside from that cut, Marciano utterly dominated that fight from the start, nearly had Charles out in the second round and took every round but one on all three scorecards. He was struck by lightning and still won.

I think if this fight were possible, the vast majority of those watching would see it as a total mismatch during the pre-fight instructions when the two stood toe to toe.

You mean like when people were suggesting Willard would literally kill Dempsey?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 04 Sep 2005, 20:02

Marciano Frazier wrote: You mean like when people were suggesting Willard would literally kill Dempsey?

That's a good analogy from a size perspective only. I revere the older HW's (checkout the name!), but I think it's at least as much the styles as the size. Remeber we're supposed to be talking about the fighters in their primes, and Lewis loss to Rahman was in the the later part of his career, and he did get up against McCall and many could argue that he was able to continue, although I think the stoppage was just. The problem for the Rock is that Lennox at his best was very hard to get inside on. His jab was quite good, and I think Rock would have run into a few too many right hands as well trying to get inside. Of course, no one really knows, and I think John L could have beaten them all. London Prize Ring rules, of course.

Always on the level. John L Sullivan

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Sep 2005, 02:44

its funny how two people pick wlacott to beat marciano when walcott in his prime lost to marciano twice. walcotss 2nd best fight was when he lost ot marciano. and in case u forget marciano knocked him out in a rematch.

marciano did beatg a prime walcott. walcott was not aging, he was 37 but that was his prime like bernard hopkins. walcott was coming off a KO over a prime charles and a decision over charles. if u think thats a downcline ur sadly mistaken. and if u watch that first maciano fiht, u will know what i am talking about., one of walcotts best fights.

and marciano almost got stoppe on cuts against ezzard charles but marciano knocked charles down and was pitching a shutout before charles hit him with an elbow. and if it were by todays rules, marciano would have won by technical decision. and charles showed in that first marciano fight how much he had left. he spent himself that night.

and that moore comment is ridiculous. moore was in his prime and was coming off the biggest wins of his career, over joey maxim, harold johnson, bob baker, bobo olsen, and nino valdez. and marciano was off balance and on one foot. he wouldnt have been knocked down if he hadnt been on one foot, not to mention moore is rated 4th by the ring in all tme punchers.

so what if lewis outweighted him by 50 lbs and had a bigg reach and heigth advantage. this isnt wrestling, this is boxing. and when u ge to a certain weight, the weight advantage doesnt matter as much. and rocky and dempsey showed they can knock out the 250lb guys with one punch.

u realize lewis is a sucker for right hands??? marciano has a much more deadl overhand right that rahman and mccall.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Sep 2005, 02:47

o yeah and sharkey and tunney doesnt do well vs marciano. swarmer vs boxer the swarmer wins . marciano would KO schmelling and knock out tunney or decisiion him,

jesus christ come on man, how could u pick schmelling and tunney over marciano>???? they werent even close the defensive fighter walcott was. marciano would find a way to win. he beat a tough ezzzard charles, prime walcott and moore, and larstarza, layne, cockell, and more.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 05 Sep 2005, 03:01

The Great John L wrote:
Marciano Frazier wrote: You mean like when people were suggesting Willard would literally kill Dempsey?
revere the older HW's (checkout the name!), but I think it's at least as mThat's a good analogy from a size perspective only. I uch the styles as the size. Remeber we're supposed to be talking about the fighters in their primes, and Lewis loss to Rahman was in the the later part of his career, and he did get up against McCall and many could argue that he was able to continue, although I think the stoppage was just. The problem for the Rock is that Lennox at his best was very hard to get inside on. His jab was quite good, and I think Rock would have run into a few too many right hands as well trying to get inside. Of course, no one really knows, and I think John L could have beaten them all. London Prize Ring rules, of course.

Always on the level. John L Sullivan

That's a good analogy from a size perspective only. I revere the older HW's (checkout the name!), but I think it's at least as much the styles as the size.

Read the statement in context. He said people would be looking at it during the pre-fight instructions and staredown and thinking it was a mismatch. I responded that they thought the same thing before Willard vs. Dempsey. Obviously the topic has nothing to do with styles in this context- it's about size and physical appearances.

Remeber we're supposed to be talking about the fighters in their primes, and Lewis loss to Rahman was in the the later part of his career, and he did get up against McCall and many could argue that he was able to continue, although I think the stoppage was just.

Lewis was very much in his prime when he was knocked out by Rahman. His performances from the years surrounding the Rahman fight(Tua, Grant, the Rahman rematch, Tyson, etc.) are widely considered to have been among his best.
Lewis able to continue against McCall? Show of hands, how many people here actually think Lewis could've gone on to win against McCall, or that the stoppage was inappropriate??? Lewis was lurching forward at the ref when the fight was stopped! What should the guy have done? Jumped out of the way and let Lewis fall back into the fight?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Sep 2005, 03:12

hey seamus too prove u wrong,

Marciano was only around 185 lbs., but he could hit with around 1,200 lbs per square inch on his best punch (straight right). By comparison, 6'6" 250-odd lb Wlad Klitschko hits with 1,100 lbs per square inch with his best punch. Only a slight difference in power, and Klitschko is considered one of the hardest punchers around today.

Now consider that Marciano would be hitting you with 1,200 lbs/sq. inch between 90 and 120 times a round for 15 rounds unlike vitali.

so i guess ur punch dosnt have naything to do with ur size once u get to a certain weight.

some of u guys need to chill on size. u dont realize guys like dempsey and marciano probably would have done better against the out of shape, fat uncoordinated, big targeted heavyweights.

and IMO rocky marciano would have knocked out max baer quckly. baer was made for marciano.

IMO the only two guyss i could see beating marciano are ali, foreman and possibly liston but id go with the rock. at rocks peak, he cclearly beats the res of them. rock is an all time greta, he doesnt lose to a tunney or schmelling. and i cant see what makes u think why. tunney and schmelling were different than walcot. and people foreget rocky easily beat walcott and charles in rematches.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 05 Sep 2005, 04:27

Marciano-Lewis is a difficult fight to pick. On one hand I look at the tape measure and think Rocky stands no chance. Lewis is just too big, with too good a jab for Marciano to stand a chance. Then when I think about Lewis against Holyfield (a man naturally about the same weigth as Rocky before he stepped up from Cruiser) then I think well if an older Holyfield could push Lewis in comeptitive fights then why can't Marciano go one further.

Lewis can KO Marciano early or inflict significant damage to make the fight too one-sided. BUT Lewis didn't like to fight at a fast pace and after the 7th marciano would be upping the pace and his punch-rate every round. I think style wise Lewis would be happy to fight Rock. So much would depend upon Rocky getting to the halfway point without being too busted up. if he can do that then he can win the fight.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 05 Sep 2005, 05:10

What about Toney vs Marciano lol?

sugar ray jay · Post by **sugar ray jay** » 05 Sep 2005, 05:27

Hey guys
First post on this board and a great topic in my opinion.
I think with Marciano vs Lewis it would depend which Lennox turned up.
Considering the fact that when LL knew he was in with a class opponent he always pulled out his best performences.
If the LL that fought Rudduck, Tyson, Grant, Golota, Rahman II etc turned up then Marciano would get an absolute battering.
Lewis is in the top 2 heavies of all time, no doubt about it.

Seasoned Veteran · Post by **Seasoned Veteran** » 05 Sep 2005, 05:52

Seasoned Veteran wrote:Muhammad Ali UD Marciano. Too slick, too big, too fast.

George Foreman KO Marciano - Assuming the early 1970's Foreman. Too powerful.

Lennox Lewis UD Marciano - Size matters.

Sonny Liston KO Marciano - Brutality in the ring. Late stoppage.

Evander Holyfield UD Marciano - Evander would be too good.

Vitali Klitschko KO Marciano - Again, too big for the Brockton Blockbuster.

I stand by my picks although maybe, just maybe, Marciano could get a points win over Vitali.

Against the other heavy's in the posts.

Dempsey KO Marciano

Tyson KO Marciano

Tunney L by KO Marciano

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 05 Sep 2005, 06:20

sugar ray jay wrote:Hey guys
First post on this board and a great topic in my opinion.
I think with Marciano vs Lewis it would depend which Lennox turned up.
Considering the fact that when LL knew he was in with a class opponent he always pulled out his best performences.
If the LL that fought Rudduck, Tyson, Grant, Golota, Rahman II etc turned up then Marciano would get an absolute battering.
Lewis is in the top 2 heavies of all time, no doubt about it.

Welcome to the forum SRJ

Top 2 of all time is quite some statement. A lot of people don't rate Lewis. I think he was a great champion but top 2 ?!? I'd say he'd be beaten by Ali, Louis, Holmes and Johnson. Of the other greats I think it comes down to style. My feelings are that Lewis liked punchers who came to him but didn't like busy fighters who could outwork him and outhustle him. He could be KO'd by a right hand and found the going hard when he met someone with as commanding a jab as his own.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 05 Sep 2005, 08:34

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:its funny how two people pick wlacott to beat marciano when walcott in his prime lost to marciano twice. walcotss 2nd best fight was when he lost ot marciano. and in case u forget marciano knocked him out in a rematch.

marciano did beatg a prime walcott. walcott was not aging, he was 37 but that was his prime like bernard hopkins. walcott was coming off a KO over a prime charles and a decision over charles. if u think thats a downcline ur sadly mistaken. and if u watch that first maciano fiht, u will know what i am talking about., one of walcotts best fights.

But in that first fight Walcott was winning soundly, and if hadn't made an amateur mistake and kept his hands along his sides against the ropes he would have outpointed him. Marciano threw the perfect punch in that fight, but I believe the general consensus is that in a prime-prime matchup, Walcott would finish the job and outpoint him.

Tunney outpointed the swarmer in Dempsey (he was older but was still Dempsey), he could do the same against Marciano. And if I remember correctly, Tunney was knocked down the least amount of times of any heavyweight champ. To say Marciano kayoes or decisions Tunney doesn't matchup realistically.

To defend my Schmeling prediction is harder. Schmeling is severely underrated, was a great counterpuncher with a hard right. He was only stopped in his prime against Baer (the ref stopped it, Schmeling was on his feet, and like you said Baer and Marciano are nothing alike) and against the most destructive fighter every to step into a ring Joe Louis. Schmeling was able to in the first match against Louis to plan a course of action and executed it perfectly. I think he can do the same to Marciano. Schmeling was not Walcott or Charles, but was one of the smartest fighters to box at heavyweight and one tough guy.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 05 Sep 2005, 09:16

I agree Tunney and Schmeling are underrated and would have given Rocky very tough fights.

marciano v other great heavyweights...

marciano v other great heavyweights...

Re: marciano v other great heavyweights...