Eubank Sr on Herol Graham sparring KO story (!)

[Greg Nicholas]

Johnny Nelsons book- 'Herol bamboozled Chris for several days, much to the frustration of Barney Eastwood. Chris had studied Herol's style all week and finally fathomed it. He produced a thunderous punch that laid Graham out cold'

[Bricks]

heaven forbid any1 say anything remotely negative about herol graham.


I dont think its that unbelievable that an ageing fighter was dumped on his arse by a young hungry banger in sparring at the tail end of his career.

Graham was hardly a "ageing fighter"..." dumped on his arse by a young hungry banger in sparring at the tail end of his career".

In late 1986 Herol Graham was the No 1 Middleweight contender , undefeated and in the absolute prime of his life 36-0 and about to add the european title to his british and commonweath ones. He had hardly been touched in the ring much less floored. So the story of a 4-0 novice fighting 4 rounders sparring Graham for ten rounds and flooring him twice is I suspect utter bullshit. Eubank was known for it much of his career until well into his Sm title reign

but shit does happen. ? wasnt there talk of bellew dropping the granite chinned froch? Thats far more shocking than eubank flooring herol. its not impossible.

Im trying to be polite but u keep saying stupid/laughable things! Bellew dropping Froch would not be quote " far more shocking than Eubanks a 4-0 novice in 1986 dropping Herol a 36-0 no 1 world contender known for his elusiveness and difficulty to be hit"....Bellew is a world level Light Heavyweight, Froch is a distinguished former world champ at Super middle both are world class.

[stevieb_8006]

Johnny Nelsons book- 'Herol bamboozled Chris for several days, much to the frustration of Barney Eastwood. Chris had studied Herol's style all week and finally fathomed it. He produced a thunderous punch that laid Graham out cold'

settled then. nice 1.

[JDC]

Johnny Nelsons book- 'Herol bamboozled Chris for several days, much to the frustration of Barney Eastwood. Chris had studied Herol's style all week and finally fathomed it. He produced a thunderous punch that laid Graham out cold'

settled then. nice 1.

Good stuff. Can't see Nelson exaggerating a scenario against Graham. They must have had a break before fighting on though, as Eubank says Bomber out-boxed him for 2 rounds afterwards...

[Pugilist-specialist]

Johnny Nelsons book- 'Herol bamboozled Chris for several days, much to the frustration of Barney Eastwood. Chris had studied Herol's style all week and finally fathomed it. He produced a thunderous punch that laid Graham out cold'

settled then. nice 1.

stevie - this was in 1989 when Eubank sparred for a week before Graham boxed McCallum. Eubank's account on the opening post claimed he'd floored Graham twice two and a half years earlier.

[nobby_nobbins]

Eubank talks rubbish. Always has, always will.

[yiddo14]

Maybe so but there seems to be more than an element of truth to him putting Herol over in sparring.

[Tomasino]

I always thought it was a Novice Howard Eastman who knocked Herol Graham out in sparring??
Perhaps im confused&getting fighters mixed up...

Nah, a young Howard Jones knocked out an ageing Errol Brown. 'It started with a kiss' too.

Reminds me of the story from the Tyson/Francis fight when one of W.arren's staff was told 'Errol Brown from Hot Chocolate is upstairs without a ticket and wants to know if he can come in'. The guy gets up to the ticket office to find Marvin Hagler waiting there.

[Tomasino]

Graham was hardly a "ageing fighter"..." dumped on his arse by a young hungry banger in sparring at the tail end of his career".

In late 1986 Herol Graham was the No 1 Middleweight contender , undefeated and in the absolute prime of his life 36-0 and about to add the european title to his british and commonweath ones. He had hardly been touched in the ring much less floored. So the story of a 4-0 novice fighting 4 rounders sparring Graham for ten rounds and flooring him twice is I suspect utter bullshit. Eubank was known for it much of his career until well into his Sm title reign

but shit does happen. ? wasnt there talk of bellew dropping the granite chinned froch? Thats far more shocking than eubank flooring herol. its not impossible.

Im trying to be polite but u keep saying stupid/laughable things! Bellew dropping Froch would not be quote " far more shocking than Eubanks a 4-0 novice in 1986 dropping Herol a 36-0 no 1 world contender known for his elusiveness and difficulty to be hit"....Bellew is a world level Light Heavyweight, Froch is a distinguished former world champ at Super middle both are world class.

Mugabi, no way is Bellew yet world level, no way

[coghaugen11]

Eubank seems to be praising Bomber heavily the day after he fought Logan as an 11-fight novice in early Feb '89: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/sho ... stcount=20

This would suggest he sparred him way back when and not in mid-89.

[coghaugen11]

Considering how competant and lively Eubank looks against world top-5 amateur (and Powerhouse) Rod Douglas in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piROD_Phrwk and how talented he appears in his 2nd pro fight in '85: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTB2Z8uTJuM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk5VBRZ1ooM it is not out the question for me that he banged Bomber over a few times prior to the Graham/Kaylor fight. He needed his confidence from somewhere - he was calling out Benn in '88 when he hadn't done anything, he must've had sparring success to make him that confident.

[stevieb_8006]

but shit does happen. ? wasnt there talk of bellew dropping the granite chinned froch? Thats far more shocking than eubank flooring herol. its not impossible.

Im trying to be polite but u keep saying stupid/laughable things! Bellew dropping Froch would not be quote " far more shocking than Eubanks a 4-0 novice in 1986 dropping Herol a 36-0 no 1 world contender known for his elusiveness and difficulty to be hit"....Bellew is a world level Light Heavyweight, Froch is a distinguished former world champ at Super middle both are world class.

Mugabi, no way is Bellew yet world level, no way

[Pugilist-specialist]

Eubank seems to be praising Bomber heavily the day after he fought Logan as an 11-fight novice in early Feb '89: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/sho ... stcount=20

This would suggest he sparred him way back when and not in mid-89.

He sparred with Graham as preparation for the McCallum fight in May !989. I was lucky enough to see a couple of the sessions.

[palooka]

Considering how competant and lively Eubank looks against world top-5 amateur (and Powerhouse) Rod Douglas in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piROD_Phrwk and how talented he appears in his 2nd pro fight in '85: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTB2Z8uTJuM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk5VBRZ1ooM it is not out the question for me that he banged Bomber over a few times prior to the Graham/Kaylor fight. He needed his confidence from somewhere - he was calling out Benn in '88 when he hadn't done anything, he must've had sparring success to make him that confident.

Without wanting to be disrespectful and heartless; considering what Bomber did to Rod Douglas in a bout without being hit hard once; if Herol had been either sparring Chris in a serious manner or boxing a bout then Eubank (excellent fighter that he was) would have been twisted up and then clocked hard. Sparring is sparring; lots of boxers get done over in sparring early in preparation for a bout. Bomber admits himself that Howard Eastman (or Jason Matthews; read it in a Boxing News interview around 1997) did him when he came back after a long lay off. He got laid out ad then came back the next day and the boxer (or their trainer) didn't want to spar again; Bomber had gone back to 'make amends' and straighten it and; his worst detractor must concede; when he was fully concentrated; Herol was a fantastic boxer with hitting power on the counter and with great timing. He could make a fool of someone and then bust them up, very good fighters and inexperenced (nearly)great fighters.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Sparring takes place in a strange alternative dimension. You ask one bunch how it went and get told they did great. The other lot say the same thing. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Speaking of Graham, someone told me that Hagler swerved Graham the other day and it was an outright duck that reflects badly on Hagler.

Marvin must put his silk PJs on each and every night then look in the mirror and think, 'I wasted time fighting Hearns, Mugabi and Leonard when I could have made the trip over to Sheffield to face the former British and then European champion. And I thought the Leonard debacle was hard to swallow.;

He did relinquish his WBA title than face Graham - that is fact.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

I agree that Hagler didn't want to fight Graham out of fear of getting beaten but it was probably more down to the fact that he would have had to go to the UK to fight Graham and got a shite purse along with it. I couldn't see anyone in the states wanting to have put out purse bids for a Graham vs Hagler fight - along with what happened the last time Hagler fought in the UK - Hagler dropped the WBA belt.

If I remember rightly at the time, Graham would have fought Barkley for the vacant title but Kalambay came in and upset those plans and took Graham's place to win the title over the overtrained and listless Barkley. If Graham had swerved Kalambay he would have beaten Barkley in my opinion but wouldn't have kept the title long.

[Greg Nicholas]

Eubank definitely sparred for 6 wks with Graham once because Ingle was paying him 300quid a week and he was making a living off it. I dont know when the KDs happened, I would say they sparred again for a few days prior to Graham fighting McCallum..because McGuigan mentions it in commentary of one of Eubanks early Matchroom fights

[Pugilist-specialist]

Eubank definitely sparred for 6 wks with Graham once because Ingle was paying him 300quid a week and he was making a living off it.

No he didn't.

And this is what you posted on 23 June 2009 :

"i heard Eubank put down both Herol Graham & Johnny Nelson but it took him a long time to work them out nd set them up etc.."

[coghaugen11]

To be fair to Greg N, Ingle did say he was paying Eubank "£300 every week" to spar with him because they couldn't find sparring partners for Herol! I do believe this was significantly prior to Eubank's coming-out party against Logan ('86? I don't know).

But it's also known Eubank was in Sheffield briefly in '89 to watch the World Snooker Championships (where he met Barry Hearn), so maybe he did some work with Graham and Nelson while he was up there. In fact, I think he did.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Tezza, don't think it fair to call McCallum 'Hagler lite' McCallum for me had a better all around skill set - had he gotten a couple of the big fights he craved, he may have been talked about in very different terms to how we see him today. A win over the likes of Hearns (had he won of course) would have catapulted him into the stratosphere.

The only thing Mike lacked was brute strength and numbing power - and he could be outsped - he had pretty much everything else, and a beautifully laconic and relaxed style which belied the spite of his punching.

[coghaugen11]

Considering how competant and lively Eubank looks against world top-5 amateur (and Powerhouse) Rod Douglas in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piROD_Phrwk and how talented he appears in his 2nd pro fight in '85: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTB2Z8uTJuM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk5VBRZ1ooM it is not out the question for me that he banged Bomber over a few times prior to the Graham/Kaylor fight. He needed his confidence from somewhere - he was calling out Benn in '88 when he hadn't done anything, he must've had sparring success to make him that confident.

Without wanting to be disrespectful and heartless; considering what Bomber did to Rod Douglas in a bout without being hit hard once; if Herol had been either sparring Chris in a serious manner or boxing a bout then Eubank (excellent fighter that he was) would have been twisted up and then clocked hard.

Bare in mind Eubank's purpose of sparring was never to win the sparring session, but to "get beat up"!!!! That sparring with Douglas wouldn't be how Eubank'd fight Rod in the ring professionally, for example; stylistically. He's just going to war there in that footage, like he always did in sparring.

Dean Francis and Cornelius Carr used to bash Eubank up, even Kenny Nevers used to beat Eubank up - I saw it.

[coghaugen11]

Hagler was extremely cute in the mid-70s, a very good counter-puncher.

[palooka]

Hagler was extremely cute in the mid-70s, a very good counter-puncher.

Wasn't he an US amateur champ (AAU) before turning pro? It seems Hagler is just known and remembered for his chin and determination and not for his skills and guile.

[SexySouthPaw]

I think your being slightly precious !!

This is a simple case of you said this and i say that, nothing can be confirmed by the statement and it's all been said before, in interviews with Herol himself and at that famous press conference with Brendan, Naz and Eubank.

just dont c why herol evokes such loyalty and sympathy from british boxing fans. its not like he never got his shot, he has 3 ffs. its not like he was never put over or beaten. hes spoken of as a jesus-like figure just cause he could make 'em miss. I mean OBV i am aware he was a MAJOR talent, but it seems like its a cardinal sin to dare even suggest one of the "big 4" may have the slightest chance of upsetting him. (that actually wasnt meant to be a personal slight there either Quix, u know I luvs ya)

Right back at you Stevie !!

I think the best thing that could have happenned to Herol is if he had of fought a Benn, Eubank, Hagler etc, then all the questions would have been answered. Essentially, McCallum was too good and nothing to do with Herol changing his style or leaving Brendan. The Jackson fight was just unreal in terms of getting hit by that shot, but Herol didn't need to go looking for the stoppage in that fight. The Brewer fight came when he was just slightly too old. He also lost to Kalambay, though that wasn't for a world title, so as you say, he had enough chances.

Actually Herol Graham was with Brendan Ingle when he fought McCallum it was the first fight against Sambu Kalambay when he suffered his first loss.IMO Graham did enough to beat McCallum.
As for Eubank sparring Graham,Graham wasn't an ageing has been at that point.I think there will be a few fighters in the gym that day who saw Herol suffer a flash knock down and then get up and give Eubank a pasting, so much so that Graham was taken out and Johnny Nelson (a light heavy at the time ) got in and frustrated the life out of Eubank. Eubank lasted 2 days and then left never to return.Johnny Nelson is on twitter I'm sure this can be verified.
Eubank is re living his glory days through his son and it will all end in tears I'm sure.

[SexySouthPaw]

I think your being slightly precious !!

This is a simple case of you said this and i say that, nothing can be confirmed by the statement and it's all been said before, in interviews with Herol himself and at that famous press conference with Brendan, Naz and Eubank.

just dont c why herol evokes such loyalty and sympathy from british boxing fans. its not like he never got his shot, he has 3 ffs. its not like he was never put over or beaten. hes spoken of as a jesus-like figure just cause he could make 'em miss. I mean OBV i am aware he was a MAJOR talent, but it seems like its a cardinal sin to dare even suggest one of the "big 4" may have the slightest chance of upsetting him. (that actually wasnt meant to be a personal slight there either Quix, u know I luvs ya)

Right back at you Stevie !!

I think the best thing that could have happenned to Herol is if he had of fought a Benn, Eubank, Hagler etc, then all the questions would have been answered. Essentially, McCallum was too good and nothing to do with Herol changing his style or leaving Brendan. The Jackson fight was just unreal in terms of getting hit by that shot, but Herol didn't need to go looking for the stoppage in that fight. The Brewer fight came when he was just slightly too old. He also lost to Kalambay, though that wasn't for a world title, so as you say, he had enough chances.

Actually Herol Graham was with Brendan Ingle when he fought McCallum it was the first fight against Sambu Kalambay when he suffered his first loss.IMO Graham did enough to beat McCallum.
As for Eubank sparring Graham,Graham wasn't an ageing has been at that point.I think there will be a few fighters in the gym that day who saw Herol suffer a flash knock down and then get up and give Eubank a pasting, so much so that Graham was taken out and Johnny Nelson (a light heavy at the time ) got in and frustrated the life out of Eubank. Eubank lasted 2 days and then left never to return.Johnny Nelson is on twitter I'm sure this can be verified.
Eubank is re living his glory days through his son and it will all end in tears I'm sure.