Prime Marciano vs FOTC Ali

[yancey]

What kind of chance would you give Rocky against the version of Ali that fought Frazier in the FOTC?




*Topic not to be construed as a hate Rocky thread, smart ass comments prohibited.

[dempseyfire]

Ali would be the favorite but Marciano would be a VERY live underdog. Would've been a great fight. I think in some ways Rocky's style would've even given Ali more problems than Frazier b/c it was less orthodox in his punch delivery and Marciano, already short, made himself a very low target. Rocky's biggest liability would be his slow feet. If he's not seriously damaged/cut by the 6th-7th that's where the fight gets interesting.

[keithmoonhangover]

Great topic yancey.

I've been watching a lot of Marciano lately and I feel like I know his style better than I ever have. Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only.
Like dempseyfire, I have Ali winning the first few round, but I think the lower Marciano gets, the harder it's gonna be for Ali. Ali is going to land a a fair few straight rights as Marciano leans away.

I think Marciano scores a flash knockdown inside four rounds, but also tastes the canvas himself by round six. Round eight is make or break for Marciano and I think he starts landing a lot more as the rounds go on. It goes either one of two ways. Either Ali scrapes a decision by two points or Marciano sends him back to the floor in the closing rounds and knicks a decision.

If I had to put money on it, I'd go for Ali by two rounds.

[yancey]

Great topic yancey.

I've been watching a lot of Marciano lately and I feel like I know his style better than I ever have. Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only.
Like dempseyfire, I have Ali winning the first few round, but I think the lower Marciano gets, the harder it's gonna be for Ali. Ali is going to land a a fair few straight rights as Marciano leans away.

I think Marciano scores a flash knockdown inside four rounds, but also tastes the canvas himself by round six. Round eight is make or break for Marciano and I think he starts landing a lot more as the rounds go on. It goes either one of two ways. Either Ali scrapes a decision by two points or Marciano sends him back to the floor in the closing rounds and knicks a decision.

If I had to put money on it, I'd go for Ali by two rounds.

"Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only." keithmoonhangover

Amiably disagree with this.

[yancey]

As far as the topic goes, my guess is that it gets stopped because of Rocky facial damage somewhere after the 10th, with Ali clearly ahead on points.

[keithmoonhangover]

Great topic yancey.

I've been watching a lot of Marciano lately and I feel like I know his style better than I ever have. Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only.
Like dempseyfire, I have Ali winning the first few round, but I think the lower Marciano gets, the harder it's gonna be for Ali. Ali is going to land a a fair few straight rights as Marciano leans away.

I think Marciano scores a flash knockdown inside four rounds, but also tastes the canvas himself by round six. Round eight is make or break for Marciano and I think he starts landing a lot more as the rounds go on. It goes either one of two ways. Either Ali scrapes a decision by two points or Marciano sends him back to the floor in the closing rounds and knicks a decision.

If I had to put money on it, I'd go for Ali by two rounds.

"Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only." keithmoonhangover

Amiably disagree with this.

I hear you brother, but Ali just before the ban was unbeatable. The Ali after the ban wasn't. His reflexes were slower after the ban.

[Giancarlo]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

[keithmoonhangover]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

Ali all day long.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Great topic yancey.

I've been watching a lot of Marciano lately and I feel like I know his style better than I ever have. Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only.
Like dempseyfire, I have Ali winning the first few round, but I think the lower Marciano gets, the harder it's gonna be for Ali. Ali is going to land a a fair few straight rights as Marciano leans away.

I think Marciano scores a flash knockdown inside four rounds, but also tastes the canvas himself by round six. Round eight is make or break for Marciano and I think he starts landing a lot more as the rounds go on. It goes either one of two ways. Either Ali scrapes a decision by two points or Marciano sends him back to the floor in the closing rounds and knicks a decision.

If I had to put money on it, I'd go for Ali by two rounds.

"Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only." keithmoonhangover

Amiably disagree with this.

I hear you brother, but Ali just before the ban was unbeatable. The Ali after the ban wasn't. His reflexes were slower after the ban.

...and that would be based on beating...?

[yancey]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

Nice spelling, goofball.

[yancey]

"Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only." keithmoonhangover

Amiably disagree with this.

I hear you brother, but Ali just before the ban was unbeatable. The Ali after the ban wasn't. His reflexes were slower after the ban.

...and that would be based on beating...?

"...and that would be based on beating...?" GI

1. A washed-up, nice guy plodder in need of a payday.
2. A tall plodder with absolutely no offense. (be sure to thumb him anyway)
3. A once feared fighter reduced to a relatively harmless plodder after being shot all up with a .357 Magnum.

What a resume!

[Goodnight, Irene]

I certainly think of Ali as one grand fighter pre-ban, but his opposition between about 1965-67 was far, far beneath him and served more to highlight his ability than challenge it.

It is kinda glib to say the first great rival he came across in their prime beat him purely because he had eroded with the exile.

[keithmoonhangover]

"Ali after the ban just was Ali in name only." keithmoonhangover

Amiably disagree with this.

I hear you brother, but Ali just before the ban was unbeatable. The Ali after the ban wasn't. His reflexes were slower after the ban.

...and that would be based on beating...?

Everyone put in front of him. He could do no more.

[yancey]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

Ali all day long.

Keith, you are well off the mark with absolute statements like that.

[keithmoonhangover]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

Ali all day long.

Keith, you are well off the mark with absolute statements like that.

It's just my opinion my good man and with out access to a time machine, that's all it will ever be. If you disagree, then so be it. It doesn't make you right or wrong for that matter.

I say Ali, because his feet were faster, his hands were faster, his reflexes were sharper and he there was no element of ring rust.

[Sportofkings]

I dont give him a huge chance. Hes outmatched in every area except maybe power. Ali wins a fairly comptetive but clear decision. No fighter Marciano faced was as good as Ali, and I think he would be biting off more than he could chew here (not including wins over past it Louis or Charles).

[Goodnight, Irene]

I dont give him a huge chance. Hes outmatched in every area except maybe power. Ali wins a fairly comptetive but clear decision. No fighter Marciano faced was as good as Ali, and I think he would be biting off more than he could chew here (not including wins over past it Louis or Charles).

Frazier wasnt outmatched in most areas?

[Sportofkings]

I dont give him a huge chance. Hes outmatched in every area except maybe power. Ali wins a fairly comptetive but clear decision. No fighter Marciano faced was as good as Ali, and I think he would be biting off more than he could chew here (not including wins over past it Louis or Charles).

Frazier wasnt outmatched in most areas?

Joe Frazier was a better fighter than Marciano, he had more ability. I dont rate Marciano too highly myself.

Anyways I think Marciano would struggle more with Ali's style as well as everything. Quick, clever boxer's who were defensively sound always gave Rocky trouble.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Frazier was comparably outmatched in most areas against 71 Ali.

[Giancarlo]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

Nice spelling, goofball.

Hey it's the 60 year old Pinhead who makes Irene seem almost normal!

[yancey]

How about immedately pre-ban Ali vs FOTC Frazier?

Nice spelling, goofball.

Hey it's the 60 year old Pinhead who makes Irene seem almost normal!

Hey Connie, did you biggie-size many orders today?

[yancey]

I dont give him a huge chance. Hes outmatched in every area except maybe power. Ali wins a fairly comptetive but clear decision. No fighter Marciano faced was as good as Ali, and I think he would be biting off more than he could chew here (not including wins over past it Louis or Charles).

Frazier wasnt outmatched in most areas?

"Joe Frazier was a better fighter than Marciano, he had more ability. I dont rate Marciano too highly myself." Sport of Kings

Yes, you are on the money here.

Frazier indeed had more ability than Rocky. Hard to believe that Irene just doesn't see this.

On the night of 3/8/71, Frazier was nearly a 2-1 favorite over Ali at fight time.

Does anybody really think that prime Rocky would have been nearly 2-1 against Ali on 3/8/71?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Nothing in Boxing says, 'Reliable Indicator,' like betting odds

[scallum]

I hear you brother, but Ali just before the ban was unbeatable. The Ali after the ban wasn't. His reflexes were slower after the ban.

...and that would be based on beating...?

"...and that would be based on beating...?" GI

1. A washed-up, nice guy plodder in need of a payday.
2. A tall plodder with absolutely no offense. (be sure to thumb him anyway)
3. A once feared fighter reduced to a relatively harmless plodder after being shot all up with a .357 Magnum.

What a resume!

who did he avoid? He fought the best guys available or did I miss something?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I dont get how, "fighting the best available," is ever a serious automatic qualifier for greatness.

It sure doesnt do guys like Ricardo Lopez or Larry Holmes a lot of favours.

His opposition highlighted his ability, more than it tested it.