Bantamweight Brawl! Jofre v. Olivares

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 02 Sep 2005, 10:18

I have seen Jofre in both Harada fights and in an earlier bout with Medel. It seems to me that he was a tremendous puncher with both hands and with any punch and though they weren't necessarily showcased on the tapes I've seen he appears to have had boxing skills well above the average. Olivares was a hard hitter, an underrated strategist and defensive fighter and the night he won the title it must have been like fighting a leopard in a tree. I tend to lean towards Olivares in this fight as Jofre was troubled by the pressure of Harada, who hurt him with a right uppercut and on other occasions with body punches. Olivares was more relentless and a harder puncher than Harada. Also in the Medel fight Jofre is drawn into a toe-to-toe exchange that lasted for nearly 3 rounds and the fighting got a bit reckless; he seemed to take punches he didn't need to take. Assuming Olivares shows up in condition like when he became champion I think that he would defeat Jofre though in the whole scheme of things I don't think he's the better fighter.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 02 Sep 2005, 11:53

I go for Olivares definately.... Jofre was a class boxer but I think he was the type of boxer who didn't like being crowded which is what Harada did to him both times. Olivares had a very simular style to Harada cept he was a much better puncher... I could see him knocking Jofre out.
I'd say altogether Olivares was the better fighter/champion than Jofre... at his peak he was awesome and though he was seldom in top shape as a Feather he still notched up some great performances which shows just how great he was!. He even gave a peak Pedrosa a good scrap in their '78 fight when he was supposed to be well past it!....

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 02 Sep 2005, 12:12

Tough one to call, but Jofre at his peak was a very classy boxer with a real KO punch. From the few times I saw Olivares on film his defence wasn't watertight and he could be tagged and floored (and yes, I know he could HIT!) so I would lean towards Jofre by a KO around rnd 6.

But I wouldn't be rushing off to bet on him at short odds!

J

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 02 Sep 2005, 15:19

I watched Olivares several times on Spanish television in the 70's, and he was like a bantamweight version of Tyson. He was one of the division's greatest punchers ever, but if he had one weakness, as has already been noted, it was his defense. If you could catch him with some big shots like Castillo, Hafey, Herrera (still no easy task) did, while avoiding his own murderous punches you'd have a chance. Eder Jofre on the other hand was the total package, this guy didn't have a weakness. Maybe he wasen't an all time great in every category, but he did have very good handspeed, power, defense, stamina, chin, skills,ring smarts etc. In a 15 round bout at bantamweight, I believe Jofre would avoid most of Olivares' powershots, while jabbing moving and countering. In the second half of the fight the Brazilian would go more and more on the attack leading to either a late stoppage or UD victory. Olivares is an all time great, but Eder Jofre is( along with Carlos Monzon ) one of the two greatest fighters to ever come out of South America.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Sep 2005, 07:01

Seamus wrote:I watched Olivares several times on Spanish television in the 70's, and he was like a bantamweight version of Tyson. He was one of the division's greatest punchers ever, but if he had one weakness, as has already been noted, it was his defense. If you could catch him with some big shots like Castillo, Hafey, Herrera (still no easy task) did, while avoiding his own murderous punches you'd have a chance. Eder Jofre on the other hand was the total package, this guy didn't have a weakness. Maybe he wasen't an all time great in every category, but he did have very good handspeed, power, defense, stamina, chin, skills,ring smarts etc. In a 15 round bout at bantamweight, I believe Jofre would avoid most of Olivares' powershots, while jabbing moving and countering. In the second half of the fight the Brazilian would go more and more on the attack leading to either a late stoppage or UD victory. Olivares is an all time great, but Eder Jofre is( along with Carlos Monzon ) one of the two greatest fighters to ever come out of South America.

But Olivares could box too and I don't think Jofre had the power to ko Ruben. If Harada could shake Jofre like he did in two fights then I'm pretty sure that a peak olivares who could fight at the pace of Harada but was stronger and a much better puncher, would win even more convincingly over Eder.

barry · Post by **barry** » 03 Sep 2005, 08:31

Jofre is one of the most underrated fighters in history and should be an all-time p4p top ten candidate. Olivares is one of my favorites and an all-time great as well, but I think Jofre was just a little too complete overall, but of course Olivares could knock anyone's head off with one shot...I pick Jofre by late knockout!

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Sep 2005, 08:44

I read somewhere that Eder Jofre was very weight drained in his two fights with Fighting Harada. Is there any truth in that?

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 03 Sep 2005, 11:25

Just watching the tapes of those fights, especially the first one (which I thought could have gone to Jofre), it seems that he may well have had trouble making weight. But on the other tape where he fight Medel- winning by tko though the round escapes me- he gets into some reckless exchanges and leave himself wide open and takes some good punches. I'll have to watch it again to see how often he is actually getting hit clean...But I think that Olivares has a better than even chance of defeating him at 118. When he beat Rose for the title he was constantly pressing, barely out of range then inside throwing hard punches then back out to return from a new angle. I get the impression that he may have been quicker- certainly of foot, probably of hand as well- than Jofre. Jofre would need to be more active than against Harada- punch more, move more, be more proactive- or Olivares could overrun him. While I believe that Jofre was the superior overall boxer, and that later in his career at 118 Olivares may not have been conditioned well enough to keep the pace, I feel that the Olivares that won the 118 title and was 51-0-1 w/49 kos would have beaten Jofre.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Sep 2005, 12:02

From what I've seen of Jofre he seems like he was a boxer rather than a fighter a kind of mini Robinson perhaps... but this style of fighter often has trouble with busy two fisted swarmers like Harada and Olivares.
I think too much is often made out of Olivrares defeats which were more often than not caused by lack of fitness... in top shape Olivares looked near invincible....

BROZO · Post by **BROZO** » 05 Sep 2005, 13:21

Olivares is the best Bantam of all time IMHO. Jofre is right behind him from what I have seen in tapes but like its been mentioned before he often took many punches in trying to establish himself in a fight, did not seem particularly devastating with one punch ko power and seemed bothered when pressured. His style was very similar to anther brazilian Arcelino Freitas (tho much more polished of course). I think he would have been bothered by Olivares swarming attack and speed, and when trying to establlish himself he would get caught by Olivares and be at least knocked down and made to re-evaluate his fight plan.
Olivares by decision or late round KO.
another thing, olivares is not given enough respect for his defence and boxing ability. At hes best he was not the punching brute that some people give the impression he was.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 05 Sep 2005, 16:37

I think BROZO makes a very good point when he mentions that Olivares is often overlooked when it comes to his defensive and strategic abilities. When he trained for fights he was very good at avoiding being hit

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 05 Sep 2005, 17:03

Yeah, Olivares had very good skills and wasn't just a straight ahead brawler. He was outboxing Arguello quite handily in their fight at Feather when he got caught but he was much more durable at bantam.
Some of Olivares most impressive form was before he won the Bantam title, he was really a little destroyer at this point and as fast as lightning!...

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 05 Sep 2005, 22:04

I agree with that, silkov. I have a couple tapes of Olivares pre championship and he was something. And against Arguello, he was on his way to winning with an outside shot at stopping Alexis when he decided to duck into a hook then an uppercut.

adonis1956 · Post by **adonis1956** » 07 Sep 2005, 20:56

8) In my opinion, Puas Olivares was one of the greatest bantamweights
and was one heck of puncher who was never in a dull fight, I saw him fight on many occasions, I never got to see Jofre, but I've read he was also very good. From what I saw and read, I still have to go with Olivares by knockout win .

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 08 Sep 2005, 01:51

tiredoldngrey, I think we have debated the merits of these two before but with far fewer responses :)

Anyway, I like Olivares in this matchup. Jofre got hit a lot by a buzzsaw fighter in Fighting Harada, and I think Ruben at his best would put even more pressure on Jofre than Harada because Olivares had the KO power behind his punches that Harada lacked. Jofre's boxing would not hold off a relentless Olivares and I think Olivares might even win via late KO, if not a decision.

Olivares, if he was disciplined in training before the fight (and that's a big if for Olivares), would be my #1 bantamweight. Otherwise, taking a fighter that lost to Chucho Castillo in his prime and picking him to beat Jofre in a mythical matchup wouldn't make much sense.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 08 Sep 2005, 03:25

That- Olivares and his training habits- was my main resevation in picking Olivares. On some of those nights it looked like he trained for the fight during the walk down the aisle. But before he won the title and the night he beat Lionel Rose, he was amazingly relentless and fast and strong. Looked likwe he could've fought all night. I don't think that the bantam ever lived that couldve defeated him that night.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:18

tiredoldngrey wrote:That- Olivares and his training habits- was my main resevation in picking Olivares. On some of those nights it looked like he trained for the fight during the walk down the aisle. But before he won the title and the night he beat Lionel Rose, he was amazingly relentless and fast and strong. Looked likwe he could've fought all night. I don't think that the bantam ever lived that couldve defeated him that night.

Yes, but we are talking about Olivares in peak well trained condition here.
Isn't it true that Olivares father was a wealthy buissnessmen and Ruben didn't need to fight for money. I read somewhere that he came from a very well to do family.........

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:29

I had never heard that of him, but I have heard that about Barrera.