IKSRTFO wrote:
1. Cotto is just 154 in weight. And even then, he's the smallest of the current 154lb threats. Height and reachwise, Cotto is the same size as Chavez. Chavez is 5'7 with 66 reach. Cotto is 5'7 with a 67 reach. Cotto only moved up because there's no way he was dominating 147.
2. 140lb Chavez is a better and probably harder body puncher than 154lb Cotto
3. 140lb Chavez has a better chin than a 154lb Cotto..
4. Cotto isn't the best at 154. be He's beaten no one to be the top guy at 154. Cotto probably can't beat Angulo, Kirkland or even Alvarez. He's only getting hype because of the Floyd fight. Two weeks ago, most people say he lose to those guys.
1. Cotto was 160+ in weight, much bigger than Chavez could ever be. Sergio Martinez is 5'10 with a 75' reach. David Tua is 5'10 with a 70' reach. What's your point again? LOL
2.
3. Why is it all about Cotto and your never ending crusade against him at 154? Is 154 Mayweather's best weight? Did Chavez ever fight there? Do you wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat screaming nonsensical blubber about how everyone thought Cotto sucked 2 weeks ago? This is the most bizarre obsession I think I've ever seen and it has nothing to do with this thread.
4. More irrelevant garbage, I've already embarrassed you over this in CS to the point that you crawled back under your rock there, just let it go and leave this to the people that actually know the sport.
So remind us why Cotto is the best at 154lbs again? And explain how beating Yuri Foreman, Margarito and Mayorga would make Cotto a legititmate fighter at 154?
There ya go, inventing things that were never said for the same absurd Pac worship. How many threads must you ruin? I don't blame you for ditching this, but if you need more schooling, pick it back up there.
Diamond WEAPON wrote:The point he's trying to make is Cotto is simply a much bigger specimen than Chavez and that partially makes up for his lesser skills and physicality in a P4P sense, especially because there is no P4P when you're talking about a pretty same-sized Mayweather between LWW and LMW versions. Chavez could make 140 or well under 147 all day every day while even in his earliest fights Cotto was pissing, sweating, and shitting then fasting like a maniac trying to make 140.
In any case I have always favored the prime 130-140 Chavez over Mayweather. By the time he was campaigning at 147 where Floyd was getting into his prime he was too faded to win IMO.
If however you put the absolute best matched versions of these two against each other (140 Chavez vs. 147 Floyd) I think you get a very even fight where I think Chavez gets the nod with his workrate and good body punching.
My case is that cutting off the ring is a skill and doesn't always involve size. Chavez would be much better at trapping Floyd and he was miles better than Cotto in his defense where he could avoid even the low percentage of punches Floyd landed on Cotto. Chavez is also faster than Cotto and I take a 130lb chin of Chavez over a 154lb chin of Cotto any day. Cotto is bigger but then what? He doesn't even have the chin to match his size. People will see the truth when Cotto decides to fight a top 5 154lber in his next fight and get sparked out quick.
Cotto and a 35 year old Floyd have nothing to do with this thread. If mid-30 Jr Middle fights was the topic than Floyd beats the shit out of Leonard. You're obsessed with all things Cotto these days because of your lust for Pacquiao. It's pathetic.
If Chavez fought this version of Mayweather he wouldn't need to cut off the ring. Floyd would push him around like Whitaker did.
If you stuck Chavez in the ring with Cotto last week he would have been mutilated. Not because Miguel is a greater fighter, because he was a Super Middleweight. Nobody sparks Cotto out quick, but I don't expect anything less out of you. Take your trolling back to CS.
Chavez would've beaten the Cotto (past prime, chinny, no stamima) of last week easier than Floyd did, and probably took less punishment in doing it. And where's you proof Cotto was a super-middleweight? Where are the fightnight weights? Cotto didn't look like he weighed that much more than Floyd. Stop trying to make your idol Floyd's win into something epic that it's not. He beat a past prime Cotto who is not that hard to beat.
And you're the ONE and ONLY person on this thread mentioning Pacquiao. I have not mentioned Pacquiao once in this entire thread. Look like you have a love/hate thing going on with him. :idea:
Cotto has always been a known weight draining monster. He went from 140-157 against Corley overnight and has since refused all fight night weigh-ins because of Gatti being sued. He was easily 165+ in there against Floyd if not heavier, he's already mentioned potentially going up to Middleweight.
As far as how he "looked" next to Floyd that can often be deceiving when you consider a. How lean Mayweather is these days and b. how broad Cotto is from his knees to his shoulders. He has short limbs but a thick midsection.
Mayweather was 150 for Ortiz last year and 152 for Marquez as his recorded high so I doubt he was any heavier than maybe 154 on fight night depending on what he ate.
IKSRTFO wrote:
My case is that cutting off the ring is a skill and doesn't always involve size. Chavez would be much better at trapping Floyd and he was miles better than Cotto in his defense where he could avoid even the low percentage of punches Floyd landed on Cotto. Chavez is also faster than Cotto and I take a 130lb chin of Chavez over a 154lb chin of Cotto any day. Cotto is bigger but then what? He doesn't even have the chin to match his size. People will see the truth when Cotto decides to fight a top 5 154lber in his next fight and get sparked out quick.
Cotto and a 35 year old Floyd have nothing to do with this thread. If mid-30 Jr Middle fights was the topic than Floyd beats the shit out of Leonard. You're obsessed with all things Cotto these days because of your lust for Pacquiao. It's pathetic.
If Chavez fought this version of Mayweather he wouldn't need to cut off the ring. Floyd would push him around like Whitaker did.
If you stuck Chavez in the ring with Cotto last week he would have been mutilated. Not because Miguel is a greater fighter, because he was a Super Middleweight. Nobody sparks Cotto out quick, but I don't expect anything less out of you. Take your trolling back to CS.
Chavez would've beaten the Cotto (past prime, chinny, no stamima) of last week easier than Floyd did, and probably took less punishment in doing it. And where's you proof Cotto was a super-middleweight? Where are the fightnight weights? Cotto didn't look like he weighed that much more than Floyd. Stop trying to make your idol Floyd's win into something epic that it's not. He beat a past prime Cotto who is not that hard to beat.
And you're the ONE and ONLY person on this thread mentioning Pacquiao. I have not mentioned Pacquiao once in this entire thread. Look like you have a love/hate thing going on with him. :idea:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Cotto and a 35 year old Floyd have nothing to do with this thread. If mid-30 Jr Middle fights was the topic than Floyd beats the shit out of Leonard. You're obsessed with all things Cotto these days because of your lust for Pacquiao. It's pathetic.
If Chavez fought this version of Mayweather he wouldn't need to cut off the ring. Floyd would push him around like Whitaker did.
If you stuck Chavez in the ring with Cotto last week he would have been mutilated. Not because Miguel is a greater fighter, because he was a Super Middleweight. Nobody sparks Cotto out quick, but I don't expect anything less out of you. Take your trolling back to CS.
Chavez would've beaten the Cotto (past prime, chinny, no stamima) of last week easier than Floyd did, and probably took less punishment in doing it. And where's you proof Cotto was a super-middleweight? Where are the fightnight weights? Cotto didn't look like he weighed that much more than Floyd. Stop trying to make your idol Floyd's win into something epic that it's not. He beat a past prime Cotto who is not that hard to beat.
And you're the ONE and ONLY person on this thread mentioning Pacquiao. I have not mentioned Pacquiao once in this entire thread. Look like you have a love/hate thing going on with him. :idea:
Dude, come on.
Still doesn't change the fact that Chavez would've done much better against Floyd than Cotto. All of a sudden, Cotto is this 154 world beater when he's only beat 1 fighter, Foreman within the top 10.
Goodnight, Irene wrote:Not at 154, Chavez wouldnt.
How so? There is no proof that Cotto is a better fighter at 154 than he was at 147. And even Floyd isn't a better fighter at 154. That's like saying Chavez couldn't beat 154 version of Camacho.
Were you saying Chavez at 140 would beat the Cotto who battled Mayweather at 154?
The Cotto at 154 is no better than the Cotto at 147 and 140. He's just heavier but he's not even stronger. His power doesn't carry up. He did more damage to Margarito in their first fight. It's just the first fight was offset by Margarito's lack of plaster and newly caused eye problems. Pass prime Oscar and Tito did better agaisnt Mayorga than he did. And who is Yuri Foreman? Had Cotto fought Angulo, Kirkland and Martinez while he was at 154, we would've see the truth. That he's just heavier, not stronger nor better.
Were you saying Chavez at 140 would beat the Cotto who battled Mayweather at 154?
The Cotto at 154 is no better than the Cotto at 147 and 140. He's just heavier but he's not even stronger. His power doesn't carry up. He did more damage to Margarito in their first fight. It's just the first fight was offset by Margarito's lack of plaster and newly caused eye problems. Pass prime Oscar and Tito did better agaisnt Mayorga than he did. And who is Yuri Foreman? Had Cotto fought Angulo, Kirkland and Martinez while he was at 154, we would've see the truth. That he's just heavier, not stronger nor better.
Are you saying Chavez at 140 would beat the Cotto who fought Mayweather?
Were you saying Chavez at 140 would beat the Cotto who battled Mayweather at 154?
The Cotto at 154 is no better than the Cotto at 147 and 140. He's just heavier but he's not even stronger. His power doesn't carry up. He did more damage to Margarito in their first fight. It's just the first fight was offset by Margarito's lack of plaster and newly caused eye problems. Pass prime Oscar and Tito did better agaisnt Mayorga than he did. And who is Yuri Foreman? Had Cotto fought Angulo, Kirkland and Martinez while he was at 154, we would've see the truth. That he's just heavier, not stronger nor better.
Are you saying Chavez at 140 would beat the Cotto who fought Mayweather?
Do you think Pacquiao, who could still make 135 if he wanted have a chance against 154 Cotto? Of course does.
The Cotto that fought Mayweather is the Cotto that:
Almost went the distance with Mayorga
Was slowing down against a one-eyed done Margarito
Beat an injured Foreman
What has Cotto done at 154 that is that impressive? What he did against Floyd is more the result of Floyd not being the same.
Two of his three "KOs" were pre-existing injuries and Mayorga was injured in the fight.
I think IKRSTO's contention, and I may be wrong, is that a 147 lb Chavez could've beaten the Cotto of two weeks ago at 154 . . is that right?
If so, I don't think that's completly unreasonable, although I don't agree with it. Cotto is clearly naturally the bigger man but he's a natural welter . . I see his move to 154 based more on him gaining large amounts of weight in between fights and struggling to get back down again. He's known to 'enjoy' life in-between fights. And before Floyd I thought he looked sluggish and unimpressive in all of his 154 fights, including the Margarito fight (I did not see this 'greatly improved' performance the commentators saw . . if anything the early rounds were actually closer than in the 1st fight)
Chavez never impressed in his fights at 147 but he's a far superior inside fighter to Cotto, so Cotto would have to do his bicycle-Margarito fight plan to win. Which I think he could do successfully but Chavez would have his moments.
dempseyfire wrote:This thread is going in circles.
I think IKRSTO's contention, and I may be wrong, is that a 147 lb Chavez could've beaten the Cotto of two weeks ago at 154 . . is that right?
If so, I don't think that's completly unreasonable, although I don't agree with it. Cotto is clearly naturally the bigger man but he's a natural welter . . I see his move to 154 based more on him gaining large amounts of weight in between fights and struggling to get back down again. He's known to 'enjoy' life in-between fights. And before Floyd I thought he looked sluggish and unimpressive in all of his 154 fights, including the Margarito fight (I did not see this 'greatly improved' performance the commentators saw . . if anything the early rounds were actually closer than in the 1st fight)
Chavez never impressed in his fights at 147 but he's a far superior inside fighter to Cotto, so Cotto would have to do his bicycle-Margarito fight plan to win. Which I think he could do successfully but Chavez would have his moments.
Somewhat. Cotto is not this lean ripped 154 lber. He's not even a strong 154lber. They're talking as if he's this guy that started his career at 154 like a real 154lber with real power like Kirkland. His power didn't move up with him the way, DLH or Trinidad's did. He's a 154lber in the since that Mosley was, the type that is small enough to go back down if the money permitted it. And it's not like he has the boxing or "running" skills of Whitaker. He can't even "run" like Camacho. He only "run" when there's a danger and with the exception of the Mosley fight, he's not that good at it either. So I pick the same Chavez that beat Camacho and Taylor at 140 which is only 7 lbs. Just because Cotto is a tad "bigger" doesn't mean he beats a guy who was a real world beater like Chavez. It's no secret that "bigger" Cotto has a very weak chin for a guy his size. Cotto hasn't beaten ANYONE even smaller than him that is on Chavez level
I have not mentioned Pacquiao once in this entire thread. Look like you have a love/hate thing going on with him. :idea: