Off topic: Northern Ireland 1 England 0

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:17

Rose tinted specs with Bobby Robson.imo

England were shit in Euro 88.
Also in 90 Belgium out played us hit the post a few times we had luck there.
Also Cameroon should have beaten us.

But he still would have done a better job than Ericsson/

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:24

states wrote:
nickd wrote:
I think its unfair to criticise Beckham, he was the only England player who played well last night his passing was excellent.

One thing is for sure that 451 does not work and that was clear as day on saturday against Wales. Quite why he played it again after that shit show on saturday has to be beyond everybody.
The 2 things are linked, that's why I am criticising Beckham. Yes, I agree that he's played well enough in the last 2 games. But Sven's letting him have too much influence. Beckham's desire to play centre midfield leads to shitty ideas like 4-5-1. Eriksson clearly has no balls when it comes to his captain: He was fornicating shocking at Euro 2004, but who had to come off? Scholes, who we promptly lost to retirement. Beckham is undroppable, and it's not right. I'm not calling for him to be dropped, but the possibility at least needs to exist.

True. But play him on the right that is where he plays best. Or drop one of Lampard or Gerrard and play Beckham cetnral with the other.

I really dont think Lampard and Gerrard work as a central midfield pair can you remember a match where they excelled together? I can't.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:30

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
silkov wrote:Seriously though the sickener is that Bobby Robson almost got the England job again instaed of Sven but Newcastle wouldn't let him go!!!...... :x :x :x .
Sven should have gone after the Euro cup shambles!... :x
Bobby is too old, they should never have sacked him in the first place though, England were a real force when he was last in charge.

But his age shouldn't come into it surely?... he's fit enough to take part in training and tactically he's light years ahead of Sven and that is what counts.
What the FA should do is put in Bobby with a apprentice manager who can work beside him and pick up experience for when Robson retires.
Makes more sense than keeping the bumbling Swede in.
I really think England will struggle to qualify if Sven stays.

cantona7 · Post by **cantona7** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:36

windsor was bouncing last night, never experienced an atmosphere like it in my life.

there's a lot of people with sore heads in work today..

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:37

Without sounding harsh, Bobby will probably be dead in a few years, they need someone who will be on board for a while.

However, Robson's experience should definetly be utilised.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:41

Being from belfast i am as happy as anybody about the result but why is everyone blaming the manager lets face it the english players have been overhyped for years now and the sooner people accept the fact that they are an above average team at best the better. Im a big fan of the premiership and would really like to see them do well at the world cup if they get there but if we are being homest we all know as soon as they meet a quality team they will get exposed as the overpaid overhyped primadonnas that they are.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:04

Not just Sven though, these players who are getting that much money seem to care more about eing richand famous than the game.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:13

You can blame the players to an extent, but he picks the team and tactics and he has got it wrong bigtime 2 games in a row.

And where's his passion? He just sat in the dugout scratching his head. He never has any idea how to change a game.

Granted Lampard was shit last night, but 1-0 down chasing a goal you'd want him on the pitch rather than substituting him for Hargreaves - what the fornicate was he going to do exactly?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:14

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Without sounding harsh, Bobby will probably be dead in a few years, they need someone who will be on board for a while.

However, Robson's experience should definetly be utilised.

How do you know?... he may have another 10 or 15 years... he might outlive Sven. Even if he didn't have long he'd still be a better bet to get us into the Cup and to do well in it than Sven.

states · Post by **states** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:14

nickd wrote:
states wrote:
nickd wrote:
I think its unfair to criticise Beckham, he was the only England player who played well last night his passing was excellent.

One thing is for sure that 451 does not work and that was clear as day on saturday against Wales. Quite why he played it again after that shit show on saturday has to be beyond everybody.
The 2 things are linked, that's why I am criticising Beckham. Yes, I agree that he's played well enough in the last 2 games. But Sven's letting him have too much influence. Beckham's desire to play centre midfield leads to shitty ideas like 4-5-1. Eriksson clearly has no balls when it comes to his captain: He was fornicating shocking at Euro 2004, but who had to come off? Scholes, who we promptly lost to retirement. Beckham is undroppable, and it's not right. I'm not calling for him to be dropped, but the possibility at least needs to exist.
True. But play him on the right that is where he plays best. Or drop one of Lampard or Gerrard and play Beckham cetnral with the other.

I really dont think Lampard and Gerrard work as a central midfield pair can you remember a match where they excelled together? I can't.

I tend to agree. As a Liverpool fan, I'm obviously a huge fan of Gerrard, and Lampard has been magnificent for Chelsea for the last 2 years. But together, it just isn't working, which brings me back to the friendlies: If they'd been played together more often, maybe they'd have a better understanding. It may well be the case that we need to drop one of them though. I'm reminded of a tale from the '66 world cup: Jack Charlton was apparently amazed that someone of his ability was in the same team as Charlton and Moore. Alf Ramsey said to him "I don't pick the best players, I pick the best team. The two are not always the same." Sven should remember that. Whoever mentioned Carrick could well be right. Gerrard always looks a better player at Liverpool when Hamaan is playing, likewise Lampard with Makelele.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:20

Parker should be looked at too he can hold the midfield.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:23

Carrick a better bet than Parker

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:33

silkov wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Without sounding harsh, Bobby will probably be dead in a few years, they need someone who will be on board for a while.

However, Robson's experience should definetly be utilised.
How do you know?... he may have another 10 or 15 years... he might outlive Sven. Even if he didn't have long he'd still be a better bet to get us into the Cup and to do well in it than Sven.

Well, for a start he's in his 70's, and for seconds, he had a massive operation to remove a cancerous tumour from his sinuses.

states · Post by **states** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:40

I can see Stuart Pearce as England manager at some point in the future, especially if he keeps up the good work at Man City.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:41

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Without sounding harsh, Bobby will probably be dead in a few years, they need someone who will be on board for a while.

However, Robson's experience should definetly be utilised.

I disagree, THIS is England's chance, 2006 is England's best chance. These players will be at their peak then. Need to get THIS bunch of players at their best. England should be thinking of the future untill after 2006.

A large portion of these players have been around since Sven first came on board in 2000. There shouldn't be a getting to know you stage now.

Robson should be around for 2006 - get him involved.

Or even, just having him for the remaining two games of the group.

Yes, Robson wasn't perfect as England manager last time and some of his performances in torunaments were not great. However, always were good in qualifying. They qualified well for Euro 1988 and Italia 90.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:45

The fact is any idiot can write down the names of the eleven best players for every game, but getting £4 million a year to do just that is a joke.

I've long thought Sven is overrated, England are like a typical on top fighter when things are going their way. But please tell me when has Sven's England ever turned a game that was not going in their favour? With the players at his disposal they should be able to do so.

I really don't think he has much tactical know how at all, when has he made the right sort of changes to change a game for England? Never.

states · Post by **states** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:48

nickd wrote:The fact is any idiot can write down the names of the eleven best players for every game, but getting £4 million a year to do just that is a joke.

I've long thought Sven is overrated, England are like a typical on top fighter when things are going their way. But please tell me when has Sven's England ever turned a game that was not going in their favour? With the players at his disposal they should be able to do so.

I really don't think he has much tactical know how at all, when has he made the right sort of changes to change a game for England? Never.

Exactly, you look at Sven and genuinely think "I could fornicating do that". You see the likes of Mourinho or Benitez on the touchline and they actually seem to have a clue about what's going on out there, and make the changes that can turn a game around. Not to mention the fact that they actually seem to give a shit.

EddieShredder · Post by **EddieShredder** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:51

nickd wrote:The fact is any idiot can write down the names of the eleven best players for every game, but getting £4 million a year to do just that is a joke.

I've long thought Sven is overrated, England are like a typical on top fighter when things are going their way. But please tell me when has Sven's England ever turned a game that was not going in their favour? With the players at his disposal they should be able to do so.

I really don't think he has much tactical know how at all, when has he made the right sort of changes to change a game for England? Never.

More worryingly.... he seems intent on just playing whatever formation is fashionable/sucsessfull at club level at the time. It's like he'sjust copying the other managers.... not even having a thought for himself.

He's got to go...... its almost like he makes shit decisions deliberatly, knowing that he's not gonna get sacked.... I bet he laughs himself to sleep at night.

How on earth could he not revert to 442 last night, with Cole on the left and Beckham on the right..... it was fuckin insane :x

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:07

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
silkov wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Without sounding harsh, Bobby will probably be dead in a few years, they need someone who will be on board for a while.

However, Robson's experience should definetly be utilised.
How do you know?... he may have another 10 or 15 years... he might outlive Sven. Even if he didn't have long he'd still be a better bet to get us into the Cup and to do well in it than Sven.
Well, for a start he's in his 70's, and for seconds, he had a massive operation to remove a cancerous tumour from his sinuses.

But its at least 10 years since he had that illness and he's managed again with no problems till he was chucked out of Newcastle for offending Lord Shearer.
The point is would he do a better job as manager now than Sven and the answer surely is yes. for one thing Robson has the guts to tell the team some home truths and get the players respect because they certainly haven't got any respect for Sven now imo.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:14

leforge wrote:Rose tinted specs with Bobby Robson.imo

England were shit in Euro 88.
Also in 90 Belgium out played us hit the post a few times we had luck there.
Also Cameroon should have beaten us.

But he still would have done a better job than Ericsson/

True but we should of beat Germany

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:16

nickd wrote:You can blame the players to an extent, but he picks the team and tactics and he has got it wrong bigtime 2 games in a row.

And where's his passion? He just sat in the dugout scratching his head. He never has any idea how to change a game.

Granted Lampard was shit last night, but 1-0 down chasing a goal you'd want him on the pitch rather than substituting him for Hargreaves - what the fornicate was he going to do exactly?

They lose there passion when there overpaid.

As a Liverpool fan

I'd support them over Everton anyday.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:17

states wrote:I can see Stuart Pearce as England manager at some point in the future, especially if he keeps up the good work at Man City.

You mean the man who in his first management job thought he'd picked a really great team and showed it too his wife who pointed out he'd picked 12 players

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:24

We've tried the Contiental way, why not try the South American Columbian way - have drug lords shoot the players when they underperrform

Seriously these South Americans are far hungrier for success than our primadonas, they have the worst facilities but the kids are poor so work hard for success. Its like in boxing where we have lazy playboy Hamed talented beyond belief and they have the lesser raw talented Morales and Barrera who are over achieving (yes Central America but the same idea of mastering what you do to get out of poverty)

I've been to South America and the people there have a 'can do attitude'

The English team player for player is surely the cream of world football - each position has a world class player BUT I doubt we'll be world champions

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:25

Thats why Brazil win the world cup alot, they put more passion and are hungrier for the game.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:44

[/quote]
The English team player for player is surely the cream of world football - each position has a world class player BUT I doubt we'll be world champions[/quote]

Cmon, you cant be serious about this you wanna take off the rose tinted spectacles england does not have ONE world class footballer. I'll probably get a hard time for saying this but its true.