I would hardly call easy defences against Sakio Bika and Peter Mafredo Jnr 'cleaning out the division'. Yes he faced Kessler and beat him, yes he fought Lacy who was hyped at the time. The rest of his record looks pretty padded.The Dark Destroyer wrote:Who? Ottke?TheCobra wrote:Definitely were!keithmoonhangover wrote: There were plenty of people he avoided mate.
Joe still cleaned it before he moved to 175.
Yeh I'm with you on this, it's a strange one really, but Carl defo has the much greater CV, but if they ever fought you'd have to think that Joe would be able to box his way to a nice 12 rounds decision.Carbo wrote:My personal view is that Froch has a far, far better record. It's not just the names on the CV, but the frequency of fighting class competition -- it's just been one top-five 168lb-er after another for ages now -- and the fact he's been willing to travel to do it.
I also think that Calzaghe was the better of the two, and that he would have comfortably beaten Froch.
Finally, despite the inferior CV, Calzaghe's legacy is slightly greater, because he was on p4p lists for quite some time, and because he was clearly The Man at 168 for quite some time.
Totally agree mate. Get Kessler over here!yiddo14 wrote:Top banana. Genuine English boxing legend.
Get Kessler over here for the rematch. The Dane will get stopped if he takes it.
His record surpasses all of the previous British/Irish super mids. Top, top man. Delighted for him.
Who? Bika and Manfredo Jnr? Title holders? That is my argument against Calzaghe, for every half-decent opponent on his record, there are 5 easy defences. That isn't how you build a legacy, that's how you build an unbeaten record.The Dark Destroyer wrote:They were the two title holders, who both held all the other titles he didn't. He left 168 as the undisputed 168er. Who was there to dispute it? He cleaned the division fair and square before he left. Look back and think at the time who did you think he missed when he left? There was no one there.TheCobra wrote:I would hardly call easy defences against Sakio Bika and Peter Mafredo Jnr 'cleaning out the division'. Yes he faced Kessler and beat him, yes he fought Lacy who was hyped at the time. The rest of his record looks pretty padded.The Dark Destroyer wrote: Who? Ottke?
Joe still cleaned it before he moved to 175.
Calzaghe probably would have lost to someone if he had fought the same opposition as Froch.The Dark Destroyer wrote:You don't have to become a three time WC, if you never lose.Horse wrote:How many other British fighters have been three time world champions? There can't be many.
Because, ultimately, one of the joys of boxing is that it turns us all into the characters in the barber shop in Coming to America.The Dark Destroyer wrote:Why do we actually have to argue about Calzaghe and Froch? Can't we just enjoy what both have done.
But the different with Froch and Calzaghe is Froch seems to say 'ok who is the toughest fight out there I can take' whereas Calzaghe will say 'Ill have easy fights for the next 18 months and then fight the toughest guy, who will have taken out a load of contenders.' There's no doubt Calzaghe would probably have beaten Beyer, Mundine and these guys who Kessler beat before he fought Calzaghe but Calzaghe spent the time Kessler was taking those guys out, beating up on Manfredo and his mates. There were really long periods between most of Calzaghes top wins. With Froch it is one after the other and a lot of the time away from home.The Dark Destroyer wrote:
They were the two title holders, who both held all the other titles he didn't. He left 168 as the undisputed 168er. Who was there to dispute it? He cleaned the division fair and square before he left. Look back and think at the time who did you think he missed when he left? There was no one there.
Froch has been matched against much better opposition than Calzaghe. It is unfair to criticise Froch for losing when he has fought the better fighters.The Dark Destroyer wrote:Who? Who on Carl's resume would Joe lose to?
He would have whipped them all except Ward, who he was capable of beating. Close fight though.
I think he would have lost against one of them, it doesn't matter which.The Dark Destroyer wrote:You said he'd have lost fighting Carl's fights, against who?
And I'm not criticising Froch, at all.
Top post mateSyntax Error wrote:This is why Froch is one of my favourite fighters today.
He always wants the best challenges & doesn't quibble about venue or money; he just fights.
He's 34 now, so he can't have too much longer left, so enjoy him whilst he's here.
Good post.MachoMan09 wrote:Froch was magnificent last night but, as is so often the case on here, a lot of people need to calm the eff down and learn to be a bit more circumspect in their assessments. Bute is a big, strong, capable supermiddleweight but the way people were ranting on beforehand you'd have though Froch was going in there with a terminator rather than a guy unproven at the top level. The polar opposite will likely now occur and many will again start saying Froch could beat Ward etc. Chill out.
I said shortly after the Ward fight that Froch should fight Bute, then Kessler, then Hopkins (pension) and then walk away. The only thing I've revised in the interim is the Hopkins pension fight - I'm now not sure about that.
As to the debates about Froch's all time domestic standing: It's between Calzaghe and Froch for the top spot. As much as Eubank and Benn are legends of the game, neither fought the best guys in the division. Saying that Ward would give Calzaghe real problems or that Froch lost to Kessler and Joe didn't is far too simplistic. The truth is, it's a very close run thing.
Sums it up perfectlySyntax Error wrote:This is why Froch is one of my favourite fighters today.
He always wants the best challenges & doesn't quibble about venue or money; he just fights.
He's 34 now, so he can't have too much longer left, so enjoy him whilst he's here.
TheCobra wrote:I would now put Froch ahead of Calzaghe personally. Just for the fact he's fought everyone out there, in their primes pretty much. Calzaghe had how many easy defences before the Lacy fight?jameswilson wrote:When we talk about Legendary British and Irish Super-Middleweights we think Calzaghe, Benn, Eubank, Watson and Collins. Carl Froch's resume is up there with all of them and he definately needs to get the recognition he deserves. I really hope this is shown on the National news.
I am so happy for Froch, I thought his best days were behind him, didn't think he had a performance like that in him as I questioned his power at the very top level.
Any way you look at it, he just smashed a 30 fight unbeaten world champion to pieces, that has to be impressive in anyone's book.
Just wish I had bitten the bullet and got tickets for it, I ummed and ahhed and decided not to go, feeling slightly gutted now as that was some atmosphere, one of the special nights in british boxing, an 'I was there' night, and I ... well, wasn't!
