Who has the better record: Froch or Calzaghe

[ALI]

Remember to vote on who you think has the better career record and not who you think would have won had they fought.

After last night, can there really be any doubt anymore?

[Adamj1987]

Froch

[NazNaci1]

Froch

[jameswilson]

As discussed in another thread Froch has the better consistent standard of opposition since winning his World title. But Calzaghe in his prime would be a favourite over Froch in his prime in my opinion.


People are mentioning Hopkins being a better win than any of Froch's wins. At the end of the day Jermaine Taylor beat a much younger Hopkins, twice. Lets not make Hopkins at the time of the Calzaghe fight to be the second coming of Sugar Ray. I think the Hopkins win is very over-rated on Calzaghe's resume, lets not forget how close that fight was.

[thebinman]

With hindsight the Lacy win isnt all that too. May be Joe simply ruined the man, but the suspicion has to be there that he really never was all that...time will tell if we think about Bute that way too!

[Terrrrry]

Froch

[ALI]

Calzaghe has the better wins.

Really, please name them........

The common oponent is Kessler, the only elite prime fighter Calzaghe ever fought. Styles make fights, both Calzaghe and Ward were all wrong for Kessler. Froch's wins against Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Abraham, Johnson and Bute far outweigh any of Calzaghe's victories.

[big lennox]

If Calzaghe was around he would have beaten all the guys that Froch has. I think he'd have beaten Froch too. I thought Froch lost to Dirrel, Kessler and Ward, and I think Hopkins would have beaten him too. Both are excellent fighters, but I think Calzaghes hand speed, workrate and movement would have been decisive. Ward and Dirrel gave Froch fits.

RE: LACY. He was ruined after the Calzaghe fight.He was a lot more durable than Bute was last night and copped a hiding over 12 rounds and that did for his career.

[NazNaci1]

Fair point Lennox, then again there a fair few that thought Hopkins and, in particular Reid, beat Calzaghe.

[big lennox]

True. When it comes down to styles I think Calzaghe's would be all wrong for him, like Wards is. Fair play to Froch though, he has really got a career to be proud of and I bet he will treasure last nights win and the atmosphere of the crowd.

[yiddo14]

Taylor is as good a win as Hopkins. Hopkins arguably beat Calzaghe. I didn't watch it at the time but I came here to read the rbr and even the majority of the British forum had B-Hop shading it.

Kessler is a better win than any of Carl's but Carl has more 'better' wins if you like.

Calzaghe was the better fighter. Carl has the better record.

[Camcas]

Calzaghe was the much better fighter and tbh he still has the better record as well

[Quixall]

I think that Froch has the slightly better resume or record, but Calzaghe beats Froch prime for prime...........

One of the major probems with Calzaghe's record is his lack of stand out names. We all know that Jones was well past it and that Hopkins had seen better days, though i have always maintained that i thought Hopkins won that fight. Calzaghe has Lacy (over-hyped) Kessler, Jones (Shot) and Hopkins (old guy) on his record, Froch has Dirrel (average) Abraham (good win) Johnson (way past it) Bute (over-hyped) Taylor ( Excellent win) , whilst losing to Kessler and Ward. When you analyse the resume's there is not that much in them and as someome has also said, i believe that Calzaghe would have beaten all the fighters that Froch has beaten. For me Froch is one of the best British fighters we have had, no question, but as for the Calzaghe vs Froch debate, Calzaghe still comes out on top for me.

[mrbassie]

I think Froch, he's fought everybody who's anybody in the division and there's more talent in it overall than when Calzaghe was on top.
Take away Hopkins, which was a close fight and one which I scored razor-thinly the other way and as far as upper tier opponents you've got, in no particular order:

Lacy-who I think would have been beaten by any super six participant with the exception of Green

Kessler-probably his best win, competitive fight just as was the froch fight.

Eubank-who was definitely on the slide.

Mitchell-Decent win but again I'd pick Kessler, Froch, Ward, Abraham, Taylor-indeed I'd probably pick Lacy too-to beat him.

Brewer: Another good win, one of his best.

Actually, having written all that I don't think they're poles apart but I still give the nod to Froch on the competition fought front.
Also worth noting that Froch has all these big fights back to back and has basically fought everybody while Calzaghe is more famous (infamous?) for fighting tons and tons of no marks and to a lesser extent some of the names missing from his record, i.e younger Jones, Collins (what a great fight that would have been!).

Calzaghe would have beaten Froch any day of the week imo but I still rate Froch based on if nothing else setting the bar so high in actively persuing the best and biggest fights and not sitting at home, refusing to travel and letting them slip by.

Just my opinion, feel free to tear it to shreds.

[CheckHook]

Kessler-probably his best win, competitive fight just as was the froch fight.

I agree with alot of what you say, but this is stretching the truth a little for me.... Kessler Vs Calzaghe may have been competative, but not in the same way Froch Vs Kessler was. I thought Kessler edged Froch in an exciting fight but against Calzaghe he was always one step behind after the first 4. The result was never in doubt and you certainly couldnt find anyone who had Kessler up on the cards at the end.

[IRLangmaid25]

Tough one to call. But when you look at Froch his stand out opponents are (and there are alot)

Lucian Bute
Glencoffe Johnson former Light Heavyweight champion
Andre Ward pound for pound ranked and current WBA Super and WBC champion
Arthur Abraham former IBF Middleweight Champion
Jean Pascal who later became WBC champion
Mikkel Kessler two time WBA and WBC champion
Jermain Taylor former undisputed Middleweight Champion
Robin Reid former WBC Super-Middleweight Champion
Brian Magee current WBA interim champion and former British champion

Calzaghe's are
Bernard Hopkins 2 weight world champion and the oldest man ever to win a world title
Roy Jones 4 weight World champion
Kessler
Chris Eubank former WBO Middleweight and Super Middle champion
Reid
Jeff Lacy former IBF champ
Ritchie Woodhall former WBC champion
Bryon Mitchell former WBA champion
David Starrie former British champion

While they are the major names on each other's slates, I reckon Froch as the edge of over Calzaghe as he foughts the likes of Bute Kessler, Ward, Abraham et al back to back with no easy fights in between them, while Calzaghe did have a few "gimme" fights in between his marquee names on his slate.

[Palimpsest]

Calzaghe beat Tocker Pudwill, Froch has nothing on his record to match this achievement.

[hoot]

Froch

[Syntax Error]

Calzaghe beat Tocker Pudwill, Froch has nothing on his record to match this achievement.

That name will haunt Calzaghe forever.

It's a real shame that Calzaghe didn't find his passport until the end of his career, because he could have had some great battles abroad at the start of the 00s & we might not even be having this discussion.

[mrbassie]

Kessler-probably his best win, competitive fight just as was the froch fight.

I agree with alot of what you say, but this is stretching the truth a little for me.... Kessler Vs Calzaghe may have been competative, but not in the same way Froch Vs Kessler was. I thought Kessler edged Froch in an exciting fight but against Calzaghe he was always one step behind after the first 4. The result was never in doubt and you certainly couldnt find anyone who had Kessler up on the cards at the end.

Yeah, that didn't come out right. Just meant it wasn't a walkover.

[Max Molyneux]

Froch.

[josh fg]

Froch was lucky to be in the Super Middle division when it was strong, and he has faced all of the best fighters out there, but Calzaghe hurt his case in this by avoiding the closest thing thing to a legitimate challenger for the best in the world in Sven Ottke, who was pretty mediocre. In many ways the main thing we have to thank for this is the loss, for Frank Warrent of his monopoly over British boxing meaning it wasn't all about protecting Hatton and Calzaghe's "0's".

The only British world champion with a comparible consistent record against world class fighters in my life time is Lennox Lewis and I suspect they - and possibly Khan - will be better remembered in history.

[gobbles]

Calzaghe beat Kessler, Kessler beat Froch.

[Pat Butcher]

If Froch had beaten Kessler then I would say Froch without doubt but as he's lost a two fights then it is debatable.
When Froch retires there will be no questions at all cos he's fought everybody. Calzaghe didn't, he cruised for too long

[deadpan]

Froch has faced pretty much everyone that could be expected of him. Down to an unwillingness to travel/Wazza's milk the WBO safety first approach/bad timing, Joe missed out on some assignments that would have given him a Froch-like 'bring on all-comers' veneer -

Reid 2
Mitchell 2 (he was surely deserving with such a contentious ending)
RJJ (prime)
Ottke
Mundine
Beyer
Green
Froch!!!!!!!
Johnson

Joe faced too many foes of the calibre of

MacIntyre
Pudwill
Salem
Sobot
Thornberry
Sobot
Ashira
Jimenez
Manfredo
Myrkychan (or summat)

And he looked unconvincing in a lot of these.

Maybe Joe would've whooped everyone in the first list. In which case there'd have been much less of a debate. And much less criticism for him for seemingly wasting vast periods of the first 8 years of his title reign. Would he have entered an equivalent Super Six in 1998? By comparison the demands of that tournament epitomised Froch's approach to his own career, wishing to test himself regardless of the risks of losing his '0'.

Maybe those of us in the Froch camp are swayed too much by Carl's attitude next to so many years of general frustration with Joe's career.