Froch vs martinez at 164

[Adamj1987]

not my idea, i've seen it floating around on facebook though.

i thought froch would be too weight drained for a bout at 164 but i had the discussion about weight making and was told froch said he could make 160

i have no doubt he could make weight but i doubt he would be effective at the weight

[gobbles]

Who would pay for this? Considering Carl was knocked back by Showtime and HBO as an opponent for Bute

[Adamj1987]

would froch be effective at the weight? DLH made 147 but was too drained

[jameswilson]

not my idea, i've seen it floating around on facebook though.

i thought froch would be too weight drained for a bout at 164 but i had the discussion about weight making and was told froch said he could make 160

i have no doubt he could make weight but i doubt he would be effective at the weight

I haven't seen any quote from Froch saying he could make 160 but if he could then I think it's a better move in weight for him than moving up to 175. He would beat Sturm and if he fought and beat Martinez that would rocket him up the P4P ratings.

[damianhucker1]

Its certainly a fight that would interest me , i really dont know how easilly froch could make the weight (or not)

but if he thinks he can then im sure he would feel pretty confident against martinez

[Finn]

Martinez would be insane to take that fight.

[Greavesy]

Martinez would be insane to take that fight.

Martinez is too small

he can go down to 154

so he says anyway

[dookus]

I dont think Froch is a small SMW, he's just not a crazy drainer like Bute or Pascal. He never looked outsized compared to, say, Kessler.

[whiskey]

Carl can't make 160 if he wanted to.

165 at a push, but no lower.

At 167 his skin is paper thin.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yeah, no way do i see him making 164, and the only way Martinez wins if Froch is weight drained.

Froch is a much bigger stronger man, he'd have to be well drained to lose. Martinez is great, but really he's a light middleweight.

[brian13]

Martinez can't go up that high because he isn't that big. Froch can't go that low.

On a point mentioned below, apparently the reason why showtime turned down the fight was because they paid Bute the amount of money they did when they signed him, to fight the winner of the Super Six and not the runner up. The Ward fight couldn't be made and so Bute went after Froch. HBO apparently didn't take it because they would be building up their biggest rival network's fighter and if Bute / Ward was made had Bute beaten Froch. Showtime were going to be staging the bout not them.

[stujones]

I'm not sure where the notion that Froch is a small Super Middle has come from? Okay he is not a drainer, but thats because of his very clean living and good training regime throughout the year.

Froch looked much bigger than Ward and Dirrell, and bigger than Magee (who has also campaigned at 175). The only fighter in which he looked relatively smaller than was Bute - but I wonder if Bute is tight at the weight. I think any fighter who looks bigger than Froch at 167 you have to question how comfortable they are at the weight.

Froch weight and frame is perfect for 167.

Martinez is a small Middleweight.

[DavidPayne]

Carl is just a consummate professional and a perfect 12 stone.

Bute is larger framed.

I doubt Carl could dip to 164 effectively.

[yiddo14]

Plenty of options for Carl at his optimum weight. No need to kill himself getting to 164 against a guy who although a top fighter, simply has no buisiness at such a high weight.

[IRLangmaid25]

Froch is a quite a small Super middle and that was quite clear when up against Bute who seemed a lot bigger. I would fancy Carl's chances moving down rather than up,all be bit down may have to be a catch weight. I think they even said in the build up that Froch could maybe make middle and he natural walks round at about 170 so maybe yes. Martinez Vs Froch catch weight would be a cracker

Froch a small Super-Middle? mate you need to get down to Vision Express. I am sorry I do not buy that for as second Mark, the only top Super-Middle who would make Froch look small is Thomas Oosthuizen and he is 6ft 4!!. A small Super-Middle would be someone like Arthur Abraham who is barely 5ft 10 but is stocky. Froch is a big Super-Middle but always in excellent shape and lives well, does not smoke does yoga and recent gave up the Guinness with his mates.

[Marlin Starfish]

Froch makes 168 with ease.

The question is would the cut to 160 (that's what I'm talking about, for the lineal middleweight championship) strip Froch of what makes him such a presence at super middle? The natural strength, engine and resilience.

Because if it didn't he'd do a job on Sergio IMO. Neither man are as slick as they think they are, fortunately for Froch since Taylor onwards he has steadily realised that. Martinez is getting older and fighting merely above average contenders and it hasn't forced him to iron out his bad habits. Martinez has fast hands though, I do wonder just how slow Froch would look against guys that are smaller and quicker than the cruisers boiling down to make 168.

Froch won't ever be top dog at 168 while Ward is around. I'm usually against excessive weight cutting, but if Froch can continue to train hard at endurance and sharpening his tools and not sacrifice too much of what makes Froch Froch then I'd love to see him challenge Martinez, who doesn't seem to be taking on that high a calibre of challenger at the mo', whilst the guys with the potential to challenge him won't fight each other and get the requisite top tier experience needed to really give Martinez a go (Pirog, Golovkin, HNDNJ, Chavez Jr, I'm looking at you)

Froch would tear Martinez a new one IMO. He takes rounds off, is quick but flawed, and isn't all that elusive. Then Froch can run the gauntlet of hungry contenders until he retires as middleweight king and one of Britain's greatest....well, as a Froch fan I'd love it :-)

[wrimc]

So where do people think that Froch would operate more comfortably. Will he be able to put on the required size and muscle to operate effectively with the big boys at 175? Or would it in theory be better for him to cut and go for middle ( not something I think will happen but for hypothetical arguments sake) For the record I think Froch will stay at 168 for the forseeable future.

[IRLangmaid25]

I think Carl Froch will stay at 168 for me as I still think there are some good fights out there for him as he can go for

Robert Stieglitz (currently scheduled for a WBO defence would make a good unification match which would sell well in Germany and the UK)
Thomas Oosthuizen who is willing to travel having had 2 of his last four fights in the States. But might be too young and not ready to be thrown in with a beast like Froch

Adonis Stevenson IBF number 2 on the list with a fair whack on him but got starched by Darnell Boone he might be angling for a title shot.
or Edwin Rodguriez.

As I don't see both DeGale and Groves being near World level yet. Brian Magee he defeated in 11 rounds back in 06 for the British and COmmonweath straps so I don't see a rematch between those two at all

Or goes for a rematch with Kessler.

[Adamj1987]

So where do people think that Froch would operate more comfortably. Will he be able to put on the required size and muscle to operate effectively with the big boys at 175? Or would it in theory be better for him to cut and go for middle ( not something I think will happen but for hypothetical arguments sake) For the record I think Froch will stay at 168 for the forseeable future.

I dont think he will move weight he will be a career super middle

[Adamj1987]

So where do people think that Froch would operate more comfortably. Will he be able to put on the required size and muscle to operate effectively with the big boys at 175? Or would it in theory be better for him to cut and go for middle ( not something I think will happen but for hypothetical arguments sake) For the record I think Froch will stay at 168 for the forseeable future.

I dont think he will move weight he will be a career super middle

I agree. Unless he cashes out at the end in a fight against a LHW.

A pascal rematch if he recaptures a title or 2?

[wrimc]

I have always liked the idea of a Clev match or maybe a Pascal rematch if there was something in it for Carl. Both need to beat a couple of decent opponents before this match becomes viable though. It is funny that because Froch stays around the 12st limit people cant decide whether he is at the limit at that size ie would be hard for him to shed any further pounds or if he would be too small for LHW.

[icemax]

Froch is a natural 168Lbs fighter and its actually refreshing to see a man fighting at his natural weight. McCracken has said on more than one occasion that Carl couldn't get safely down to 160.

[Lilo]

Can't see any reason why his next fight won't be Kessler in England in Sept/Oct.

Easy fight to make. No real options other than each other. Big draw, big money, rematch. 50/50.

Its absolutely perfect.

[DavidPayne]

I think Carl Froch will stay at 168 for me.

I'm sure he is very fond of you but this strikes me as a stretch.

[johnswan1]

I am not a fan of fighters moving around weights unless it's a natural progression upwards.

I think Martinez is hugely over-rated anyway. Macklin and Barker both had success against him until they wore themselves out, and neither of these guys are really elite fighters.

Martinez has been knocked out by Margarito, lost a decision to Paul Williams, and drew with Kermit Cintron.

Pavlik was flat when Martinez beat him, he then scored a wonderful KO of Williams in his rematch before winning three fights against Dzinziruk, Barker and Macklin. P4P no.3 is a bit high in my view.

He is the best fighter in a poor middleweight division. I would like to see him in with one of Abraham, Cotto, Alvarez or Mayweather next.