Who has the better record: Froch or Calzaghe

[Chambers2]

Froch, it's not even close.

Plus Calzaghe spent the last 4 years of his career ducking Froch

[hitman_hatton1]

calzaghe proved himself top dog in 2 weight divisions.

froch hasn't done that in 1 division yet.

end of.

[Trojans44]

.... umm .. I think thats where I come in and say Nathan Cleverly beats Froch when they fight

I do agree though that Froch has better names on his records for todays boxing fans. How some of those names will actually be valued in say 10 years time is another thing ..

The point alot of people miss when it comes to Frochs hard run at s-middle ... is the fact he has had no other option if he wanted to make good money.
Calzaghe did have the option though.
Froch is a very intelligent guy. If he too had an easy option that paid well, he would take it.

If Calzaghe didn`t have the easy option. He too would have done everything Froch has done .. except the two losses of course

I just made exactly this point on another thread. What other option did Froch have if he wanted a career? Fearless road warrior but cried a river over Kessler and refused to fight Abraham in Germany. Taylor had a brain injury and was dominating, Abraham had nothing at 168, Johnson is 400 and has more than ten losses, Dirrell was unfortunate in his first big fight, lost to Kessler and outclassed by Ward. Bute, what the hell was that about? The guy went to pieces when Froch leapt on him, it wasn't exactly a masterclass was it?

I think Froch's record is excellent, undeniably so, but I he garners rather too much credit from it. Froch over all flatters to deceive and Calzaghe would have blew past him with an easy UD.

[NazNaci1]

With respect, we are going around in circles here. By the same token we can say that Calzaghe garned a couple of controversial wins in Reid and Hopkins. Yes he 'won' both but should / could have lost both. So we need to keep that in the same context as Froch's win over Dirrell.

Then beating up Lacy, who went on to get pummelled by every other half decent fighter, including the shell of RJJ. And then we have Kessler. fighting away from home for the first time, regardless of whether some agree or not, he fought injured and with the added weight of personal issues, against a fine fighter in his hometown. Then he got beaten much more convincingly by Ward and won a tight, hard fight against Froch, in Denmark. So it's one thing, picking holes in Froch's record and if we do, we must do the same for Calzaghe.

And I won't even comment on the ridiculus premature stoppage over Mitchell, RJJ matchup, the fact the Johnson fight (which would have been a real toughie) fell through / JC withdrew 3x and then flat out avoided Dawson.

[Ezzard]

I don’t really understand this idea that Froch beating Taylor is tainted because Taylor was wining…

That should make it even more outstanding, not less so…

I think Benn deserves a shout here. Maybe his career being spread over two divisions hurts him a bit but he pretty much took on the best he could.

[Autobarn]

calzaghe of course has the better record but records can be deceptive.

froch has been on the outside for a long time, and indeed was at one point laughed at for demanding to defend his own title vs jermain taylor in the states...finally, he has a title, has a TV contract in the UK and can take fights on his own terms, at home (like calzaghe did).

the next step is surely to bring kessler down to 168, in nottingham (froch's terms, surely) for an impressive (hopefully) victory. both coming off impressive stoppages so let's see it.

[NazNaci1]

Was thinking the same thing, Ezz, regarding Benn. He gets little praise but he fought pretty much everyone he could both here and abroad. It's that mystical '0' thing, again.

[Ezzard]

Was thinking the same thing, Ezz, regarding Benn. He gets little praise but he fought pretty much everyone he could both here and abroad. It's that mystical '0' thing, again.

McClellan came here with a massive rep. He got the draw with Eubank, I thought he won it. Was the Barkley fight at 160 or 168?

[NazNaci1]

Pretty sure it was 160.

[nobby_nobbins]

Benn's record is impressive but there are conspicuous names missing such as Toney, Nunn, Jones Jnr and McCullam. Overall I think I'd rate Benn slightly above Eubank despite never having beaten him but below Calzaghe and Froch.

[Chambers2]

calzaghe proved himself top dog in 2 weight divisions.

froch hasn't done that in 1 division yet.

end of.

I remeber you telling me for years that Froch would never win a World title

[fasteddie]

froch because he fought people in their prime and didnt duck no one,calzaghe has a great career record but imo froch has a better record

[fasteddie]

calzaghe proved himself top dog in 2 weight divisions.

froch hasn't done that in 1 division yet.

end of.

top dog in two weight divisions???? so beating an old hopkins and jones means your the best at light heavy does it??? fair point on the super middles but no way light heavy,if he would of fought dawson and tarvor and came out on top then i would agree,for the record i thought froch fought kessler at kessler game and forced him back in a really tight fight were as calzaghe fought kessler and run for most of the fight after a few hurtful body shots, just my opinion tho

[Bricks]

.... umm .. I think thats where I come in and say Nathan Cleverly beats Froch when they fight

I do agree though that Froch has better names on his records for todays boxing fans. How some of those names will actually be valued in say 10 years time is another thing ..

The point alot of people miss when it comes to Frochs hard run at s-middle ... is the fact he has had no other option if he wanted to make good money.
Calzaghe did have the option though.
Froch is a very intelligent guy. If he too had an easy option that paid well, he would take it.

If Calzaghe didn`t have the easy option. He too would have done everything Froch has done .. except the two losses of course

I just made exactly this point on another thread. What other option did Froch have if he wanted a career? Fearless road warrior but cried a river over Kessler and refused to fight Abraham in Germany. Taylor had a brain injury and was dominating, Abraham had nothing at 168, Johnson is 400 and has more than ten losses, Dirrell was unfortunate in his first big fight, lost to Kessler and outclassed by Ward. Bute, what the hell was that about? The guy went to pieces when Froch leapt on him, it wasn't exactly a masterclass was it?

I think Froch's record is excellent, undeniably so, but I he garners rather too much credit from it. Froch over all flatters to deceive and Calzaghe would have blew past him with an easy UD.

So what exactly is your point trojans44 that somehow Frochs success via the hard route can be demeaned, because you think if he had had the easier option he would have taken it? thats not much of a point.
As for anyone thinking Cleverly beats Froch! Big wow Froch refused to fight Abraham in Germany. He fought him in Helsinki and whooped his ass the same. The german thing was about bent judging not fear of a german crowd. Do understand these things. As for the crying a river over Kessler. I havent heard that. Both men like each other and accept it was a fight that could have gone either way. Froch is the kind of exciting fighter who takes risks and finds a way to win even if he looks vulnerable the fact is he has beaten Bute,G Johnson,Dirrel,Abraham,Taylor and Pascal and the Kessler match well that could have gone either way. Taylor did not have a brain injury fighting froch, Taylor was in peak form and thats why it took a 12th round hail mary ko by Froch to win. The point is Froch took on Taylor who Calzaghe avoided circa 2005-6. I think your criticisms of Froch are unbalanced, and ridiculous especially the "it wasnt exactly a masterclass against Bute "BS. Try and engage your brain mate.
If an old Hopkins could shutout and floor Joe over 6 rounds and than lose a very debatable decision, I think a hungry and motivated Froch has every chance of finding a way to beat him. Froch had an off night with Ward and I dont think its in Calzaghes nature to fight like Ward on the back foot stinking out the joint like he did circa 2000. Cal will come forward and Froch will counterpunch him all night and tear his face apart with his underrated power. I was once of the opinion Joe wins a head to head even if Frochs record is better. But I've learned not to be so ignorant about Froch anymore and so should you.

[Marlin Starfish]

Alan Rudkin faced better comp' than Froch and Calzaghe combined. Went to Japan to fight Harada, and Australia to fight Rose (which he won IMO) and fought in one of the greatest era's for one of the greatest divisions.

[desperados]

.... umm .. I think thats where I come in and say Nathan Cleverly beats Froch when they fight

I do agree though that Froch has better names on his records for todays boxing fans. How some of those names will actually be valued in say 10 years time is another thing ..

The point alot of people miss when it comes to Frochs hard run at s-middle ... is the fact he has had no other option if he wanted to make good money.
Calzaghe did have the option though.
Froch is a very intelligent guy. If he too had an easy option that paid well, he would take it.

If Calzaghe didn`t have the easy option. He too would have done everything Froch has done .. except the two losses of course

I just made exactly this point on another thread. What other option did Froch have if he wanted a career? Fearless road warrior but cried a river over Kessler and refused to fight Abraham in Germany. Taylor had a brain injury and was dominating, Abraham had nothing at 168, Johnson is 400 and has more than ten losses, Dirrell was unfortunate in his first big fight, lost to Kessler and outclassed by Ward. Bute, what the hell was that about? The guy went to pieces when Froch leapt on him, it wasn't exactly a masterclass was it?

I think Froch's record is excellent, undeniably so, but I he garners rather too much credit from it. Froch over all flatters to deceive and Calzaghe would have blew past him with an easy UD.

So what exactly is your point trojans44 that somehow Frochs success via the hard route can be demeaned, because you think if he had had the easier option he would have taken it? thats not much of a point.
As for anyone thinking Cleverly beats Froch! Big wow Froch refused to fight Abraham in Germany. He fought him in Helsinki and whooped his ass the same. The german thing was about bent judging not fear of a german crowd. Do understand these things. As for the crying a river over Kessler. I havent heard that. Both men like each other and accept it was a fight that could have gone either way. Froch is the kind of exciting fighter who takes risks and finds a way to win even if he looks vulnerable the fact is he has beaten Bute,G Johnson,Dirrel,Abraham,Taylor and Pascal and the Kessler match well that could have gone either way. Taylor did not have a brain injury fighting froch, Taylor was in peak form and thats why it took a 12th round hail mary ko by Froch to win. The point is Froch took on Taylor who Calzaghe avoided circa 2005-6. I think your criticisms of Froch are unbalanced, and ridiculous especially the "it wasnt exactly a masterclass against Bute "BS. Try and engage your brain mate.
If an old Hopkins could shutout and floor Joe over 6 rounds and than lose a very debatable decision, I think a hungry and motivated Froch has every chance of finding a way to beat him. Froch had an off night with Ward and I dont think its in Calzaghes nature to fight like Ward on the back foot stinking out the joint like he did circa 2000. Cal will come forward and Froch will counterpunch him all night and tear his face apart with his underrated power. I was once of the opinion Joe wins a head to head even if Frochs record is better. But I've learned not to be so ignorant about Froch anymore and so should you.

Debatable decision over Hopkins? What fight were you people watching? I seen a world class operator take the piss out of a helpless fighter on the ropes with no answer but to try and spoil his way out of there. It wasn't even close, Calzaghe was simply a class apart and literaly bent him over.

I'm a big fan of Froch, but Calzaghe is simply a class part. Too much is made of Froch's resume. Taylor outboxed him, dont get me wrong it was a great 12th round stoppage, but Taylor hasn't had a notable win at 168, infact he is 1W & 3L before moving back down. Same with Abraham, it's a good win, but hes a blown up 160 fighter who isn't world champion material at 168. e lost to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler. He was completely out his depth against Ward. He was slow and crude agaisnt Johnson (whos lost nearly as many as he's won in his last 30 odd fights) for a majority decision. Bute (who has already been knockedo ut by Andrade if we're being honest) is by far his best win, probably followed by Pascal.

[whiskey]

Debatable decision over Hopkins? What fight were you people watching? I seen a world class operator take the piss out of a helpless fighter on the ropes with no answer but to try and spoil his way out of there. It wasn't even close, Calzaghe was simply a class apart and literaly bent him over.

I'm a big fan of Froch, but Calzaghe is simply a class part. Too much is made of Froch's resume. Taylor outboxed him, dont get me wrong it was a great 12th round stoppage, but Taylor hasn't had a notable win at 168, infact he is 1W & 3L before moving back down. Same with Abraham, it's a good win, but hes a blown up 160 fighter who isn't world champion material at 168. e lost to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler. He was completely out his depth against Ward. He was slow and crude agaisnt Johnson (whos lost nearly as many as he's won in his last 30 odd fights) for a majority decision. Bute (who has already been knockedo ut by Andrade if we're being honest) is by far his best win, probably followed by Pascal.

Jesus.

Calzaghe got flattened and his nose broken by a man in his 40's , Enzo nearly had a god damn heart attack and that moment of fear, as the scores were read out scared Joe so badly he ran off and fought the ghost of the shell of the shadow of Roy Jones - then promptly retired !

"I'd never fight Roy Jones now, he's a completely shot fighter" - Calzaghes autobiography 2 years earlier.

He had two options after Hopkins fight Kelly Pavlik for his WBO or fight Froch for the WBC - and he did neither.

Warren had shook on a deal with Arum and was set to announce Pavlik - and he left "the best promoter in the world" as fast as he could after over a decade, to Warren's disbelief.

[desperados]

I'd still favour that man in his 40's to take Froch apart.

x2, hopkins would do to froch what ward did.

as for Joe fighting froch instead after BHop, he faught BHop in april 08, at which point, Froch was british champion. Maybe instead of rematching Bute/Kessler/Ward Frochs next fight should be Groves?

[whiskey]

I'd still favour that man in his 40's to take Froch apart.

Sure you would.

Your 25+ anti-Froch posts in this thread alone confirms this.

[jameswilson]

I'd still favour that man in his 40's to take Froch apart.

Sure you would.

Your 25+ anti-Froch posts in this thread alone confirms this.

I'm not anti Froch at all. You on the other hand are pro Froch to a point that's sickening.

Given that he is personal friends with Froch that's not that suprising tho. I do have to concede that if I had a quid for every time in the last week that you've said 'Id back Hopkins against Froch' I think I could pay off Greece's debt all by myself.

[yiddo14]

Yet aren't you doing the very same thing to Froch's achievements DD?

Hopkins could well beat Froch now. I would put money on a prime Calzaghe against Froch, everyday of the week but neither has any bearing on who has the better record.

[nobby_nobbins]

Hopkins is a fiddle merchant. Froch is the messiah. This is how it is.

[Chambers2]

Hopkins is a fiddle merchant. Froch is the messiah. This is how it is.

Nuff Said

[Autobarn]

it's better that a fighter like froch doesn't have a safe career that is planned. by getting in tough fights, learning from mistakes, he can reinvent, stay fluid, rather than being stale and doing the same thing every fight.

cleverly will have to wait a bit longer for froch to be a stepping stone. indeed he'll have to wait a long time to even be on froch's radar. cleverly seems to make many of the mistakes (defensive, balance and in terms of punch delivery) that has blighted froch. i'd like to see cleverly tested a bit sooner so we can learn more about this guy.

anyway, who's rated in the IBF for froch? if he goes the mando route, he can remain champ for a while, especially if there aren't many big fights out there (he's had plenty of them already). time to stabilise froch's career, a bit.

[hitman_hatton1]

calzaghe proved himself top dog in 2 weight divisions.

froch hasn't done that in 1 division yet.

end of.

I remeber you telling me for years that Froch would never win a World title

you'll have to find that one.

i honestly can't remember.