Some Thoughts On Chavez v Taylor I

[Seamus]

I recently re-watched the fight, undisturbed, in it's entirety, and came away thinking that I'd be hard pressed to come up with another bout where one fighter so thoroughly 'appeared' to be beating his opponent in every area, and yet ended up being stopped in the final seconds. Going into the final rd, Chavez was further behind (on my scorecard) against Taylor, then he was against Whitaker, and yet despite the fact that he was losing badly thru 11 rds, his punches, which weren't landing anywhere near as frequently as Taylor's, were quietly doing more damage than the former's. Julio Cesar Chavez get's slagged off alot on BoxRec as being overrated, but his performance against Taylor for sheer determination and toughness and for turning a one sided defeat into a last second stoppage victory was truly amazing.

[BoxBuzz]

I wouldn't argue with his tenacity. But that was a bit of a gift in small portion from Taylor using some poor judgment, and a ref who probably would not have been out of line if he would have stayed out of the outcome. But as far as "who would you rather be" at the end of the fight? OK....I'd rather have been Julio, no matter what action the ref may have taken.

Julio under rated? I hadn't noticed that.

For what it's worth, he did NOT appear to be having that sort of affect on Whitaker, and at the end of that exchange, I'd much rather have been Sweet P.

[Ezzard]

Two top fighters in a truly great fight.

You might argue that the other Taylor should have been allowed to get pasted some more by Froch.

If you render your opponent unable to defend himself then it shouldn’t matter how long is on the clock. I think that’s it. Mission complete. You win. I guess the argument with the Chavez fight is… was Meldrick unable to defend himself?

Whatever your view. Chavez proved himself the better fighter.

Meldrick should never have been put in with Terry Norris.

[Datsue]

Two top fighters in a truly great fight.

You might argue that the other Taylor should have been allowed to get pasted some more by Froch.

If you render your opponent unable to defend himself then it shouldn’t matter how long is on the clock. I think that’s it. Mission complete. You win. I guess the argument with the Chavez fight is… was Meldrick unable to defend himself?

Whatever your view. Chavez proved himself the better fighter.

Meldrick should never have been put in with Terry Norris.

[Seamus]

Against Taylor, going into the final rd, Chavez had been hit with many more hard shots than he had vs Whitaker, but he had been quietly landing. Against Whitaker however he was missing punches till his arms were gone.

And for those who think Richard Steele may have given Chavez a gift, do keep in mind he let Taylor get away with numerous low blows throughout the fight.

[dempseyfire]

Two top fighters in a truly great fight.

You might argue that the other Taylor should have been allowed to get pasted some more by Froch.

If you render your opponent unable to defend himself then it shouldn’t matter how long is on the clock. I think that’s it. Mission complete. You win. I guess the argument with the Chavez fight is… was Meldrick unable to defend himself?

Whatever your view. Chavez proved himself the better fighter.

Meldrick should never have been put in with Terry Norris.

Meldrick actually wasn't given the chance to defend himself. It's not like the round prior to the KD had been an ugly one-sided beating.

Chavez gets a legit win in my book but it's definitely the result of some luck in Taylor looking to the stupid screaming Lou Duva opposed to the ref in the last few seconds . . .

I definitely think the fight prior to the last round had been more competitive than Whitaker-Chavez though. While Whitaker didn't land as many eye catching flurries, there wasn't ONE round in that fight in which Chavez had a DECISIVE edge, as JCC did in the 2nd and then in the last two rounds . .

[Sportofkings]

Two top fighters in a truly great fight.

You might argue that the other Taylor should have been allowed to get pasted some more by Froch.

If you render your opponent unable to defend himself then it shouldn’t matter how long is on the clock. I think that’s it. Mission complete. You win. I guess the argument with the Chavez fight is… was Meldrick unable to defend himself?

Whatever your view. Chavez proved himself the better fighter.

Meldrick should never have been put in with Terry Norris.

He was never even given the chance to prove was he able to defend himself or not, Jermain Taylor on the other hand was, thats where the whole controversy arises. I personally think that it is unlikely that Chavez would have even been able to land a single punch on Taylor in the few seconds that were left on the clock

[Ambling Alp]

He may have landed a shot. The time on the clock is not what bothers me. As dempseyfire mentioned, Taylor was distracted by Duva. Duva deserves some of the blame. Steele probably should have realized that Taylor was distracted, which was why Taylor was not responding to him. You never know what Steele was going to do as a referee. He might stop a fight at the drop of a hat or let a one-sided beating go on.
And though Taylor fought a great fight, some of the blame has to go him for getting himself in trouble in the first place.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Never gets mentioned, but I dare say Taylor's knee damage from the year before may've been crucial in this bout.

A little more mobility = Win.

[keithmoonhangover]

Richard Steele.....

2:30 onwards....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgenYK7VaxY

Taylor doesn't respond and the fight is stopped.

8:21 onwards....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uhAZeEA54

Hearns doesn't repsond and the fight goes on.

For what it's worth, if Steele had let the fight go on, Taylor would have won, but there would have been an immediate rematch and Chavez would have won convincingly.

[Ambling Alp]

And Steele stopped the first Ruddock -Tyson fight prematurely. On the other hand, he let Tate-Olajide go for for 15 rounds in a one-sided beating. You never knew what he was going to do.

An immediate rematch (say 5-6 months later) between Chavez-Taylor would have been interesting.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Robbery

[keithmoonhangover]

Robbery

That's boxing..... sadly.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Its a 12-round bout, not an 11-round, 2-minute, and 58-second bout.

There is no objective argument against stopping a fight with two seconds remaining. If a ref makes a call there he wouldnt elsewhere, in the bout, he is robbing the attacking fighter of a result.

At which point is Chavez supposed to stop throwing punches? With five seconds left? Ten? Twenty?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm not getting into the same tired argument. Time matters in fights, were you furious that the referee didn't stop Rafa/Izzy 3 in the closing seconds? If so, valid point. I don't see any conceivable reasoning behind stopping this fight past Steele being on King's payroll.

[BoxBuzz]

Incompetence is far more common than ill will or corruption. Even in boxing.

I think it was just a very bad day at the office for Steele. Very bad judgment. And a built in cover story of "safety first"'

Just an Awful outcome IMHO.

[yancey]

Incompetence is far more common than ill will or corruption. Even in boxing.

I think it was just a very bad day at the office for Steele. Very bad judgment. And a built in cover story of "safety first"'

Just an Awful outcome IMHO.

Bad day at the office, eh?

[Seamus]

The easiest thing Taylor had to do in 12 rds was to say "I'm OK" and he didn't.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The easiest thing Taylor had to do in 12 rds was to say "I'm OK" and he didn't.

Thaaaank you.

[BoxBuzz]

Was Taylor a MENZA aluminist?

Perhaps not lol.

With high hopes I went back and checked the record today.....apparently even today, Taylor still lost that fight, despite my having the far better side of this debate. If Steele would have sneezed at that point, the clock would have run out and Taylor would have had the victory.

This all happened due to a lack of pollen in the air.

[Seamus]

If Steele would have sneezed in Taylor's direction, Meldrick might have fallen over.

I doubt there'd be as much complaining if Chavez had been way ahead at the time of the stoppage, but I know of no such rule that tells a referee he must take that into consideration.

[keithmoonhangover]

If Steele would have sneezed in Taylor's direction, Meldrick might have fallen over.

I doubt there'd be as much complaining if Chavez had been way ahead at the time of the stoppage, but I know of no such rule that tells a referee he must take that into consideration.

Yes, but Steele didn't even ask other fighters that question when they were knocked down and when he did, he didn't wait for them to respond. Hearns is the case in point.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I can live with someone saying Steele was in King's pocket. Thats plausible.

I cant live with someone saying its unreasonable to stop a bout with a certain amount of time left. Thats retarded.

Pure emotion talking.

[Sportofkings]

I can live with someone saying Steele was in King's pocket. Thats plausible.

I cant live with someone saying its unreasonable to stop a bout with a certain amount of time left. Thats retarded.

Pure emotion talking.

Some very good boxing people have agree that the fight was stopped prematurely. Imo the fact that Steele waved the fight off too soon is what gets a lot of people, not just the time left on the clock. Anyways referees are only human, you think they haven't given fighters the benefit of the doubt in cases where they were hurt/knocked down and there was fornicate all time left on the clock?

[fatcity69]

I think the fact that Taylor was never the same fighter again after this fight tells us that in truth the fight was stopped too late rather than too early. His corner should have pulled him out before the 10th round. Yes he was ahead on points, but the punishment he was allowed to take in piling up those points would shorten his career and affect his whole life.