The poor management of British fighters

[Camcas]

When you look through some of the rankings for British fighters it is shocking how badly promoted some of them are, fighters having one fight a year against a guy with more wins than losses. I know promoters have a lot of fighters to deal with but this mismanagement is frankly shocking and ruining a few good fighters chances of getting somewhere in boxing. Clearly there are financial constraints restricting promoters, but if the load is too much then release some fighters so you can get it to a manageable level. You have to feel sorry for the fighters who mostly are training hard when there is no date for them to fight on because of their promoters not seeming to give them the time. Few examples:

Rocky Fielding- Had a good PF win KO'ing all of the fighters on his way to title you'd think he would be on his way to a title shot but no he has fought 4 journeymen since then and there is no clear direction as to where he is going in the future. Finally he has got fed up of the situation and left Warren so maybe now he will start progressing.

Martin Murray- Coming off a career best performance against Sturm and he hasn't fought since then? Surely coming off a result like that he would be Hatton's top priority as he could be the one to get a first world title for their promotions, but he has been left waiting aimlessly for an opponent and now his comeback has finally been announced he gets stuck on the undercard of a promotion against a relative nobody on the world scene, he should really be fighting top 30 guys but instead he has really been left behind.

Kevin Mitchell- Got a great comeback win against previously undefeated John Murray surely a chance to go onto the world scene, but instead he is left training for a fight that keeps getting put back and his only fight in a year is a ten rounder against Felix Lora which no disrespect but is hardly the level in which he should be fighting at. He has fought twice in two years which is shocking for a fighter entering his prime years. Even if you can't bring in a world champion for him surely you can get a top 25 guy to test him and keep his profile in the public eye and keep the fighter himself developing his career.

George Groves- Coming off one of the best wins of last year against James Degale surely he should be regularly fighting a developing his skills yet since that win he has fought once in over a year after moving to Warren which is shocking. Had several fights postponed for supposed 'injuries'. A developing prospect needs to be fighting 4-6 times a year yet he is being left waiting for fights and not getting any in ring practice. He had huge backing after the Degale win and was really a star with the public yet since that performance he has completely fallen off the radar and has lost a lot of his fan appeal with his treatment of Kenny Anderson.

Denton Vassell- Developing prospect who needs in ring time to develop his skills yet has completely fallen off of the map in the British scene. Hasn't fought for 7 months now and there is no signs that he has a fight lined up anytime soon which is hindering his chances and preventing him from gaining any type of skill development.

Rendall Munroe- Joined Hatton in 2010 after fighting in a brave effort for a world title and has since gone on to fight nobody of note since that time. He does finally have a fight lined up but it is 18 months too late and he has probably lost 18 months of his best in terms of his boxing career and he should have really fought 4-5 top ranked fighters in that time, but instead his promotion has been non existent and he has gone completely off the world scene.

Stuart Hall- Has had one fight since September and given his age he really needs to get a move on because now are his best years as a fighter and they are getting ruined as a fighter. Was meant to fight on last Saturday bill but that was called off for some reason and he has no clear signs of where his next fight will be at.

Stephen Foster- After loosing his Euro title he was out of the ring for a year just wasting what are again his prime years. Since then he has gone on to fight in two meaningless six rounders which are doing nothing for him if we tell the truth and there are no signs that he has any title match in the running anytime soon.

Richard Towers- Turned pro in 2009 and yet hasn't moved from fighting bums and most of the being guys who are fat and a foot smaller than him which is doing nothing for his development. The guy isn't a young fighter who can learn he is 32 years old and these are his prime years yet he is fighting complete nobodies. Finally has a title shot now but that should have come 2 years ago and he has lost a lot of good boxing time.

Martin Lindsay- Lost his British title in 2010 and since then has completely fallen off the radar of the title scene. Has fought in two meaningless six rounders since then which will have done little for him as a fighter. There are no signs that he is going to get a meaningful fight anytime soon yet he is now in the prime years for him as a fighter and really needs to be in meaningful fights for his career.

Travis Dickinson- Won PF in January 2011 yet after that had over a year out of the game. Since then has fought three journeymen and has elevated himself nowhere near title level for a fighter with his ability level this is simply not good enough. He needs to be getting into 10-12 rounders to test him and develop him so he is ready for the titles when they come along.

Jamie Cox- Lost to Sai in September and since then has vanished from the radar completely, for a guy that was a very strong amateur his promotion has been nothing short of embarrassing.

Joe Murray- Must be worst promoted fighter in Britain, since turning pro he has fought nobody of note and frankly hasn't fought anyone which makes him any closer to the title picture than when he turned pro

Liam Walsh- Great win in what was on of FOTY last year yet since then hasn't fought, has a huge following in Norwich yet has never fought there as a pro? which is frankly unacceptable, should be regularly fighting every 3 months yet is being left to rot by Warren

Michael Walsh- Hasn't fought in over 18 months, heard he wants fights yet his promoter simply isn't delivering them?

Ryan Walsh- Hasn't fought in 9 months and has no clear fights lined up really needs to be fighting regularly to develop his skills yet this doesn't seem to be happening

There are more fighters which could be added to the list but I think the picture is clear. The promotion/management of some of these fighters simply isn't good enough and many of these fighters simply aren't fighting regularly enough to get the basic money which they need to support their families. Some of the promoters need to not concentrate on just the big money fights and focus on developing their fighters as once you do that the big money fights will come

[smoggy7188]

Cox has been having problems with his hands and thats why he is out.
Both the Dickinson brothers have had injury problems- also Travis had fight against Ajisafe which fell through for English title.
One of the Walsh brothers ( I think the youngest) broke his hand or arm
Martin Murray had a world title shot but criminal past scuppered that which aint promoters fault.
Foster Jnr is fighting Buckland next.
Kevin Mitchell has had criminal problems which stopped him from getting shot at rios.
Groves had 3injuries (1 depending on who u believe)

Agree with Fielding, Vassell, Munroe (no idea why he left Maloney), Hall, Towers (although i think they are taking it easy cos of his time inside) Walsh brothers (not getting fights isnt their fault).

I think Lindsay wanted a rest.

Totally agree with your comments about Joe Murray, his career is just random to be honest.

Good and interesting post though.

[Camcas]

Cox has been having problems with his hands and thats why he is out.
Both the Dickinson brothers have had injury problems- also Travis had fight against Ajisafe which fell through for English title.
One of the Walsh brothers ( I think the youngest) broke his hand or arm
Martin Murray had a world title shot but criminal past scuppered that which aint promoters fault.
Foster Jnr is fighting Buckland next.
Kevin Mitchell has had criminal problems which stopped him from getting shot at rios.
Groves had 3injuries (1 depending on who u believe)

Agree with Fielding, Vassell, Munroe (no idea why he left Maloney), Hall, Towers (although i think they are taking it easy cos of his time inside) Walsh brothers (not getting fights isnt their fault).

I think Lindsay wanted a rest.

Totally agree with your comments about Joe Murray, his career is just random to be honest.

Good and interesting post though.

I realise that some of them have injuries and the like, but in general there is a lack of fights because of the promoters desire for money making fights all the time.

Groves had two fights lined up but they got scraped because of poor ticket sales then admittedly he got injured and I understand Mitchell had the criminal problems but taking that into account couldn't Frank then get him a shot at decent fighter in Britain.

I also think promoters take on too many fighters and simply can't handle that many which inevitably leaves some being forgotten about which is a shame. Although I agree sometimes it isn't the promoters fault I.e Dickinson's

[JimJim2009]

Too many promoters and too many fighters who can headline a main event (not that this is a bad thing), compounded by too few TV dates from TV companies who can pay a substantial fee per show. Seems like the top promoters won't put on a show without TV backing, or Maloney and Hatton at least. Plus, there is a big gulf between what TV companies want, and what the promoters think they should settle for. TV companies want the best fights and best match ups possible, promoters seem to want to give them something like Denton Vassell vs a teak tough ghanian as a main event. Quigg vs Munroe is the sort of fight that should be made more often in the UK. I'm glad to see Sky TV are cracking the whip and pushing for quality. Maloney would probably have got Tom Dallas to 20-0 before the bubble burst, where's the harm in Sky pushing for Price vs Dallas ? Maloney allegedly wasn't happy because it meant the end of one of his prospect's unbeaten records but so what. Maybe Maloney (sorry to pick on him) shouldn't invest so much time and money into a roofer in the first place. No disrepect to Dallas intended. It all gets back to TV channels subsidising our major promoters and the conflict between those parties. If Sky put £100k up for a show they have a right to demand quality.

[DannyNaz]

Good post agree with what is said, it's annoying for fans but I can't imagine how annoying it must be for the actual fighters. Being hyped up winning fights knocking guys out looking good but Waiting 7-10 months for a fight. I would loose motivation and dedication.

Carl greaves is the man. Looks after all his fighters, but more importantly is brutally honest with them and explains the whole game with ticket sellers/journeymen etc.

[smoggy7188]

Cox has been having problems with his hands and thats why he is out.
Both the Dickinson brothers have had injury problems- also Travis had fight against Ajisafe which fell through for English title.
One of the Walsh brothers ( I think the youngest) broke his hand or arm
Martin Murray had a world title shot but criminal past scuppered that which aint promoters fault.
Foster Jnr is fighting Buckland next.
Kevin Mitchell has had criminal problems which stopped him from getting shot at rios.
Groves had 3injuries (1 depending on who u believe)

Agree with Fielding, Vassell, Munroe (no idea why he left Maloney), Hall, Towers (although i think they are taking it easy cos of his time inside) Walsh brothers (not getting fights isnt their fault).

I think Lindsay wanted a rest.

Totally agree with your comments about Joe Murray, his career is just random to be honest.

Good and interesting post though.

I realise that some of them have injuries and the like, but in general there is a lack of fights because of the promoters desire for money making fights all the time.

Groves had two fights lined up but they got scraped because of poor ticket sales then admittedly he got injured and I understand Mitchell had the criminal problems but taking that into account couldn't Frank then get him a shot at decent fighter in Britain.

I also think promoters take on too many fighters and simply can't handle that many which inevitably leaves some being forgotten about which is a shame. Although I agree sometimes it isn't the promoters fault I.e Dickinson's

I do agree that some promters have to many fighters which is why i am a fan of fighters having joint deals ie a deal with tv promoter and a non tv promoter especially younger fighters so they get the experience they need. A prime example being Jazza Dickens.

However, you cant blame promoters for wanting to make money though. Groves/Anderson is a good trade fight however it is not an arena fight unless you get a stacked undercard with sellers which is often announced closer to the fight.

I do agree with your premise that some fighters have had poor management. That is undeniable.

[leforge]

When you look through some of the rankings for British fighters it is shocking how badly promoted some of them are, fighters having one fight a year against a guy with more wins than losses. I know promoters have a lot of fighters to deal with but this mismanagement is frankly shocking and ruining a few good fighters chances of getting somewhere in boxing. Clearly there are financial constraints restricting promoters, but if the load is too much then release some fighters so you can get it to a manageable level. You have to feel sorry for the fighters who mostly are training hard when there is no date for them to fight on because of their promoters not seeming to give them the time. Few examples:

Rocky Fielding- Had a good PF win KO'ing all of the fighters on his way to title you'd think he would be on his way to a title shot but no he has fought 4 journeymen since then and there is no clear direction as to where he is going in the future. Finally he has got fed up of the situation and left Warren so maybe now he will start progressing. He left Warren now so maybe it will change

Martin Murray- Coming off a career best performance against Sturm and he hasn't fought since then? Surely coming off a result like that he would be Hatton's top priority as he could be the one to get a first world title for their promotions, but he has been left waiting aimlessly for an opponent and now his comeback has finally been announced he gets stuck on the undercard of a promotion against a relative nobody on the world scene, he should really be fighting top 30 guys but instead he has really been left behind.

He does need to be moved can Hattons do it

Kevin Mitchell- Got a great comeback win against previously undefeated John Murray surely a chance to go onto the world scene, but instead he is left training for a fight that keeps getting put back and his only fight in a year is a ten rounder against Felix Lora which no disrespect but is hardly the level in which he should be fighting at. He has fought twice in two years which is shocking for a fighter entering his prime years. Even if you can't bring in a world champion for him surely you can get a top 25 guy to test him and keep his profile in the public eye and keep the fighter himself developing his career.

No comment

George Groves- Coming off one of the best wins of last year against James Degale surely he should be regularly fighting a developing his skills yet since that win he has fought once in over a year after moving to Warren which is shocking. Had several fights postponed for supposed 'injuries'. A developing prospect needs to be fighting 4-6 times a year yet he is being left waiting for fights and not getting any in ring practice. He had huge backing after the Degale win and was really a star with the public yet since that performance he has completely fallen off the radar and has lost a lot of his fan appeal with his treatment of Kenny Anderson.

Meant to be fighting Anderson soon

Denton Vassell- Developing prospect who needs in ring time to develop his skills yet has completely fallen off of the map in the British scene. Hasn't fought for 7 months now and there is no signs that he has a fight lined up anytime soon which is hindering his chances and preventing him from gaining any type of skill development.

Been not very well promoted. tommy Gilmour now managing may change

Rendall Munroe- Joined Hatton in 2010 after fighting in a brave effort for a world title and has since gone on to fight nobody of note since that time. He does finally have a fight lined up but it is 18 months too late and he has probably lost 18 months of his best in terms of his boxing career and he should have really fought 4-5 top ranked fighters in that time, but instead his promotion has been non existent and he has gone completely off the world scene.

Bad move to leave Maloney. If he beats Quigg he be managed well

Stuart Hall- Has had one fight since September and given his age he really needs to get a move on because now are his best years as a fighter and they are getting ruined as a fighter. Was meant to fight on last Saturday bill but that was called off for some reason and he has no clear signs of where his next fight will be at.

Not sure whats up
Stephen Foster- After loosing his Euro title he was out of the ring for a year just wasting what are again his prime years. Since then he has gone on to fight in two meaningless six rounders which are doing nothing for him if we tell the truth and there are no signs that he has any title match in the running anytime soon.


Lined up for Buckland
Richard Towers- Turned pro in 2009 and yet hasn't moved from fighting bums and most of the being guys who are fat and a foot smaller than him which is doing nothing for his development. The guy isn't a young fighter who can learn he is 32 years old and these are his prime years yet he is fighting complete nobodies. Finally has a title shot now but that should have come 2 years ago and he has lost a lot of good boxing time.

Martin Lindsay- Lost his British title in 2010 and since then has completely fallen off the radar of the title scene. Has fought in two meaningless six rounders since then which will have done little for him as a fighter. There are no signs that he is going to get a meaningful fight anytime soon yet he is now in the prime years for him as a fighter and really needs to be in meaningful fights for his career.

Think he may have a fight deal with matchroom

Travis Dickinson- Won PF in January 2011 yet after that had over a year out of the game. Since then has fought three journeymen and has elevated himself nowhere near title level for a fighter with his ability level this is simply not good enough. He needs to be getting into 10-12 rounders to test him and develop him so he is ready for the titles when they come along.

Was meant to fight Ajisafe he pulled out

Jamie Cox- Lost to Sai in September and since then has vanished from the radar completely, for a guy that was a very strong amateur his promotion has been nothing short of embarrassing.

Bad injury but he not happy with the opportunities apparently

Joe Murray- Must be worst promoted fighter in Britain, since turning pro he has fought nobody of note and frankly hasn't fought anyone which makes him any closer to the title picture than when he turned pro

No idea

Liam Walsh- Great win in what was on of FOTY last year yet since then hasn't fought, has a huge following in Norwich yet has never fought there as a pro? which is frankly unacceptable, should be regularly fighting every 3 months yet is being left to rot by Warren

Has a fight on 22nd June against tba

Michael Walsh- Hasn't fought in over 18 months, heard he wants fights yet his promoter simply isn't delivering them?
Not sure

Ryan Walsh- Hasn't fought in 9 months and has no clear fights lined up really needs to be fighting regularly to develop his skills yet this doesn't seem to be happening

Not sure

There are more fighters which could be added to the list but I think the picture is clear. The promotion/management of some of these fighters simply isn't good enough and many of these fighters simply aren't fighting regularly enough to get the basic money which they need to support their families. Some of the promoters need to not concentrate on just the big money fights and focus on developing their fighters as once you do that the big money fights will come

[STEVE WOOD]

More boxers and less dates means it is going to get even harder . The boxers and trainers are going to have to let the good fighters fight each other and for fair money to as there is less of that about as well .

If every one is not reasonable over the next 12-24 months then a lot will not be fighting , not always the managers or promoters fault .

[dondada]

Very interesting thread. Don't agree with them all but do with several. Thought provoking stuff.

[Pig]

The isn't one eddie Hearn fighter here , let me guess a Hearn freind having a dig ?

[SteveDow]

Good post OP.

I think the problem is as much a sign of the times as it is mismanagement or poor promotion. The lack of TV dates and their greater insistence on quality over quantity following the Haye v Harrison/Klitschko debacles means that opportunities are clearly more limited since promotors will obviously want to maximise revenues on the shows they promote. As someone said above, the inevitable consequence of all of this is that in order for fighters to progress they are going to have to fight and beat quality opponents earlier on in their careers. This will mean that more prospects are going to have to be matched up earlier in their careers, which is no bad thing in my view. There is nothing worst than fighters getting massively padded records and then being brutally exposed when they take their first step up.

[dondada]

The isn't one eddie Hearn fighter here , let me guess a Hearn freind having a dig ?

Dunno...feel free to add some poorly managed (promoted?) Hearn fighters to the list...

[earsjohn]

The isn't one eddie Hearn fighter here , let me guess a Hearn freind having a dig ?

Which Hearn fighters would you suggest have been poorly managed in the manner of those highlighted?

[JamesH]

I think Hearn has a good track record of improving on the previous management of his clients. Sure there are exceptions, but he seems to be doing alright imo.

[Camcas]

The isn't one eddie Hearn fighter here , let me guess a Hearn freind having a dig ?

Not at all, if you can think of a Hearn fighter who should be on the list I will happily add him there

[whiskey]

Why Norfolk show ground can't be booked for a little Walsh brothers card hasn't been done is a mystery really.

No excuse about tv dates, they're on a dedicated boxing channel. I'm sure some of the names like John Murray etc wouldnt mind a run-out on it too I'd imagine against a tune-up for a bit of pocket money either.

Liam Walsh's last fight was top draw, shame to see his career switched-off and gathering cobwebs against a TBA miles away.

[Greavesy]

Agree with above post

There big ticket seller

so to me makes no sense

i know they are still training etc

a friend of mine was recently

hired to go down to spar all 3 of them

paid him £100 per day

he was pretty pissed to then find

another guy i know had been paid £100 per round

to spar someone who posts on here

[Tommy Gunn13]

Why Norfolk show ground can't be booked for a little Walsh brothers card hasn't been done is a mystery really.

No excuse about tv dates, they're on a dedicated boxing channel. I'm sure some of the names like John Murray etc wouldnt mind a run-out on it too I'd imagine against a tune-up for a bit of pocket money either.

Liam Walsh's last fight was top draw, shame to see his career switched-off and gathering cobwebs against a TBA miles away.

Im also puzzled why they havnt used the show ground for the Walsh brothers,think all 3 will be in action in the next month or two..

[Tommy Gunn13]

Agree with above post

There big ticket seller

so to me makes no sense

i know they are still training etc

a friend of mine was recently

hired to go down to spar all 3 of them

paid him £100 per day

he was pretty pissed to then find

another guy i know had been paid £100 per round

to spar someone who posts on here

£100 a round

[Craig14]

Tommy would you spar for a hundred quid a round?

[FIGHTFANs]

On another note i do think sky are killing boxing giving all the dates to one promoter Theres going to be a lot of boxers out of work and a lot boxers boxing for shit money.

[keithmoonhangover]

I spoke to the promoters of one of these fighters and he said.......

"If only he would get off his lazy arse......."

My point is that when a fighter is inactive, it's sometimes his fault.

[dalcumly]

Excellent thread which touches on the reasons why professional boxing is dying . There are 2 factions involved in boxing - those who are in it to make money and those who are not . In the first group are fighters , trainers , managers , promoters , the media and their employees ( Magazines and TV stations ) , sanctioning bodies and paid officials . The other side are the fans , volunteers like Board inspectors and other unpaid officials . The BBC drew out years ago ,followed by SKY ending PPV and cutting back on programmes , citing too many arguments and disputes . The national press have vanished from ringside .The whole thing is a shambles . Certain promoters will not allow their boxers to fight on another promoters bill. Managers will not allow their boxers to fight on certain promoters bills . Promoters/managers will only allow their boxers to fight guys who they will definitely beat. So called champions fight opponents who they shouldn't be even accepting as sparring partners ,and our media allow it . The Boxing News this week have ran an article which seems to suggest that drug abuse ( PEDS) is so rife that we should just accept it . Some journeymen turn up for fights looking as if they've just stepped out the pub having demolished a fish supper . The costs to a promoter of running a small hall public show are so great that they will probably lose money and the boxers themselves are being pressured beyond belief to sell tickets . Surely it's the promoters job to 'promote' the bill and sell tickets .
Back in the day guys like Jack Solomons and Harry Levene were in it to make money as well - but they knew what the public would accept and what the public wanted and if they didn't produce then the fans would vote with their feet .
At the top end of the scale the big money is to be made from TV , therefore the TV companies need to get round the table and thrash out deals . For example Channel 5 and SKY should sit down and demand a Fury v Price fight . Local small promoters should be prepared to work with their rivals and put on the fights the fans want to see in their region . The idea of having 3 paid judges at British fights is killing the game . The fees for doctors is astronomical . The Board should not take ANY money from promotions which have ran at a loss . Boxers and their managers have to be realistic and reduce their demands . I could go on but I fear its too late .
Its becoming embarassing when friends ask - whose the world middleweight champion - why is Haye v Chisora being allowed - why is their no boxing on the BBC - why do amateurs look as if it is children sparring ,or pretending to be sparring - why do some boxers wear skirts instead of shorts - why are boxers allowed to slag each other off in the build up to fights etc etc

[Tommy Gunn13]

Tommy would you spar for a hundred quid a round?

I dont think id last a round in my current shape

£100 a round seems alot of £££ for the Walsh Brothers to pay out,there not superstars&that seems excessive for them to pay that IMO

[Craig14]

I earn't the equivilant of 200 pounds for painting a room today. Picked up, 3 pints after work and then dropped off. Not punched in the head once. Although I might be getting a phone call tomorrow. Anyway all I'm trying to say is 100 quid a round sounds more than fair, I'm sure a lithuanian would do it for 30 though. painting and punched in the head.