Boxing News Top 100 - Randolph Turpin ???

[dalcumly]

The number one boxer of all time is reckoned by many to be Sugar Ray Robinson . At his peak he was dethroned for his undisputed middleweight title by Randolph Turpin . 90 days later in New York Randy had him going again ,and in the 10th with the referee about to stop the fight Sugar Ray landed a peach and after a barrage Turpin was stopped .
I've just checked Boxing News's top 100 magazine again and I can't find Randy mentioned .
I might have missed him , but if I'm right how can you beat the best ever in a world title fight and fail to be mentioned in the top 100 ,when people like Marcel Cerdan are there ??
And there are plenty of video's featuring Turpin so there is no excuse .

[morria]

I believe that Sugar Ray was the best fighter of all time. The Randy Turpin defeat gets overlooked unfortunately as Randy was a very good boxer. Cerdan was an excellent fighter who blitzed through the world rankings until he came unstuck due to Jake Lamotta (through injury) I think the best of all time depends on the guys that are judging it

[dalcumly]

There is a difference . Rahman didn't beat the best fighter of all time and didn't do as well in the re-match . In addition Rahman got lucky and landed a haymaker , Turpin outboxed Robinson for 15 rounds .

And I might add , how can Jack Berg , who won a world title in an unrecognised weight division ,be rated so highly when Ken Buchanan misses out ?

Its great fun to discuss the selections ,because none of us will get it right .

[stujones]

Its an impossible task, but generally I think its a good list.

I personally think Oscar De la Hoya is a tad too low, well maybe not too low, but I would just have him ahead of Morales and Barerra who are above him.

Where is Emile Griffith? That is the clearing omission.

Why didn't "ringside" classify Ted Kid Lewis as British - they left him out when they highlighted the top 5 Brits.... they also implied that Holyfield failed to make the cut when really he is a respectable 27

[dalcumly]

Machoman , yes I take your point and well made , but in terms of all round boxing ability Turpin has to be up there with the best in Britain and if so must be up there above Berg as least .

I just feel at times Randy's forgotten when top fighters are discussed and nobody can take it away - he did beat Robinson fair and square . If the great man was less than fully fit , he still made the weight , and lasted 15 rounds easily according to reports .

But , as I said , beauty is in the eyes of the beholder ,and we could argue all day . Thanks for posting .

[Finn]

To be fair they did say on ringside it was one of the hardest top 100's to compile and noone every agrees.

Is Sugar Ray Robinson the number 1 on everyones list? I think most in the know would agree he is. Ali in my opinion would be second but many would disagree with me.

[Finn]

To be fair they did say on ringside it was one of the hardest top 100's to compile and noone every agrees.

Is Sugar Ray Robinson the number 1 on everyones list? I think most in the know would agree he is. Ali in my opinion would be second but many would disagree with me.

Where was Mayweather jr. on the list? I've long been in the Ray Robinson camp but over the last few years I've come to believe that Floyd might be the greatest boxer of all time. I'll reserve judgement for a few years after his retirement but his skill-set is/was magnificent.

their argument was that a lot of the fighters havent finished their careers yet and also people tend to remember fighters with more fondness with time. RJJ was an example they used, his later fights are damaging his reputation but in 10/15 years time will people have forgotten about them and only remembered the good stuff. Its all opinion but i think PBF may have missed his chance of being a future top 10 by not fighting pac a year or two ago, however put him in the ring with any fighter in history of the same weight class and i think he would have won.

[bennie]

If Ezzard Charles ain't in the top 20, the list don't mean shit.

[Finn]

If Ezzard Charles ain't in the top 20, the list don't mean shit.

I thought he was in the top ten or was that mee and nelsons lists?

[jimcook]

To be fair they did say on ringside it was one of the hardest top 100's to compile and noone every agrees.

Is Sugar Ray Robinson the number 1 on everyones list? I think most in the know would agree he is. Ali in my opinion would be second but many would disagree with me.

Where was Mayweather jr. on the list? I've long been in the Ray Robinson camp but over the last few years I've come to believe that Floyd might be the greatest boxer of all time. I'll reserve judgement for a few years after his retirement but his skill-set is/was magnificent.

their argument was that a lot of the fighters havent finished their careers yet and also people tend to remember fighters with more fondness with time. RJJ was an example they used, his later fights are damaging his reputation but in 10/15 years time will people have forgotten about them and only remembered the good stuff. Its all opinion but i think PBF may have missed his chance of being a future top 10 by not fighting pac a year or two ago, however put him in the ring with any fighter in history of the same weight class and i think he would have won.

kosta tzu,pernell whitaker, tommy hearns ,sugar ray leonard,roberto duran,casamayor,pacman, chavez, taylor....a small list of fighters from the last thirty years or so who , in my opinion, would easily beat mayweather...and im sure there are quite a few more. mayweather has avoided far too many fighters, and fighters in their prime. ffs even castillio beat him. who has mayweather actually fought since he was 135 ibs 10 years ago?? sosa , ndou,corley, brussels,hatton , mitchel, gatti, judah ,baldomir, (jmm, odh,mosley, ortiz, and cotto. dela hoya was already past it, cotto smashed by pac, mosley past it too and jmm well past his prime and too small at the weight. and from this you come to the conclusion that he would beat everyone from history including the great ray robinson! laughable.

[Emmseegee]

Out of curiosity i picked through Robinson's record, its a remarkable achievement that he fought so many contests but a lot of the opponents wouldn't make sparring partners for world champions these days.
Look at the records of them going into the fights, some of them are ridiculous. Some guy's second and final fight of his career was against Robinson who was having about his 150th!

The average record of the opponents he beat were as below:
Fights 58.4 Wins 39.3 Losses 15.1 Draws 4.3

The average record of the opponents he lost to were as below:
Fights 53.6 Wins 42.1 Losses 9.2 Draws 2.4

Robinson also lost 9.5% of his fights!

(Numbers rounded to 1 decimal place before anyone jumps on the figures lol)

Im not disagreeing that Robinson was an amazing fighter but making the point that every fighters record can be picked apart. They figures above dont reflect the guy who is universally recognised as the greatest fighter of all time do they?

[Finn]

kosta tzu,pernell whitaker, tommy hearns ,sugar ray leonard,roberto duran,casamayor,pacman, chavez, taylor....a small list of fighters from the last thirty years or so who , in my opinion, would easily beat mayweather...and im sure there are quite a few more. mayweather has avoided far too many fighters, and fighters in their prime. ffs even castillio beat him. who has mayweather actually fought since he was 135 ibs 10 years ago?? sosa , ndou,corley, brussels,hatton , mitchel, gatti, judah ,baldomir, (jmm, odh,mosley, ortiz, and cotto. dela hoya was already past it, cotto smashed by pac, mosley past it too and jmm well past his prime and too small at the weight. and from this you come to the conclusion that he would beat everyone from history including the great ray robinson! laughable.

he is unbeaten and beat a man who beat tszyu - you say he hasnt fought anyone and yet mention Hatton, gatti, JMM, odh, mosley, cotto, ortiz, judah. If you think pacman would beat PBF easily then we are in opposite camps. I also dont think SRL would have beaten PBF.

[jimcook]

kosta tzu,pernell whitaker, tommy hearns ,sugar ray leonard,roberto duran,casamayor,pacman, chavez, taylor....a small list of fighters from the last thirty years or so who , in my opinion, would easily beat mayweather...and im sure there are quite a few more. mayweather has avoided far too many fighters, and fighters in their prime. ffs even castillio beat him. who has mayweather actually fought since he was 135 ibs 10 years ago?? sosa , ndou,corley, brussels,hatton , mitchel, gatti, judah ,baldomir, (jmm, odh,mosley, ortiz, and cotto. dela hoya was already past it, cotto smashed by pac, mosley past it too and jmm well past his prime and too small at the weight. and from this you come to the conclusion that he would beat everyone from history including the great ray robinson! laughable.

he is unbeaten and beat a man who beat tszyu - you say he hasnt fought anyone and yet mention Hatton, gatti, JMM, odh, mosley, cotto, ortiz, judah. If you think pacman would beat PBF easily then we are in opposite camps. I also dont think SRL would have beaten PBF.

then you need to go and have a look at some of ray leonards fights. also id like to know just how you think fmj would have beaten tommy hearns. how could he have kept hearns off him? how could he have avoided hearns big rangy punches , jabs and rights. i truly believe hearns would have hit him at will and smashed him to pieces. ray leonard had everything ...defence, offence, speed of hand and foot, tactical brain, heart, chin, flair, ko power in either hand...there is no way mayweather could live with ray leonard at welterweight.

[Finn]

kosta tzu,pernell whitaker, tommy hearns ,sugar ray leonard,roberto duran,casamayor,pacman, chavez, taylor....a small list of fighters from the last thirty years or so who , in my opinion, would easily beat mayweather...and im sure there are quite a few more. mayweather has avoided far too many fighters, and fighters in their prime. ffs even castillio beat him. who has mayweather actually fought since he was 135 ibs 10 years ago?? sosa , ndou,corley, brussels,hatton , mitchel, gatti, judah ,baldomir, (jmm, odh,mosley, ortiz, and cotto. dela hoya was already past it, cotto smashed by pac, mosley past it too and jmm well past his prime and too small at the weight. and from this you come to the conclusion that he would beat everyone from history including the great ray robinson! laughable.

he is unbeaten and beat a man who beat tszyu - you say he hasnt fought anyone and yet mention Hatton, gatti, JMM, odh, mosley, cotto, ortiz, judah. If you think pacman would beat PBF easily then we are in opposite camps. I also dont think SRL would have beaten PBF.

then you need to go and have a look at some of ray leonards fights. also id like to know just how you think fmj would have beaten tommy hearns. how could he have kept hearns off him? how could he have avoided hearns big rangy punches , jabs and rights. i truly believe hearns would have hit him at will and smashed him to pieces. ray leonard had everything ...defence, offence, speed of hand and foot, tactical brain, heart, chin, flair, ko power in either hand...there is no way mayweather could live with ray leonard at welterweight.

the same way he beats everyone else.

[jimcook]

he is unbeaten and beat a man who beat tszyu - you say he hasnt fought anyone and yet mention Hatton, gatti, JMM, odh, mosley, cotto, ortiz, judah. If you think pacman would beat PBF easily then we are in opposite camps. I also dont think SRL would have beaten PBF.[/quote]
then you need to go and have a look at some of ray leonards fights. also id like to know just how you think fmj would have beaten tommy hearns. how could he have kept hearns off him? how could he have avoided hearns big rangy punches , jabs and rights. i truly believe hearns would have hit him at will and smashed him to pieces. ray leonard had everything ...defence, offence, speed of hand and foot, tactical brain, heart, chin, flair, ko power in either hand...there is no way mayweather could live with ray leonard at welterweight.[/quote]

the same way he beats everyone else.[/quote]
oh you mean avoid them until they are done , or just completely avoid them.

[jimcook]

Out of curiosity i picked through Robinson's record, its a remarkable achievement that he fought so many contests but a lot of the opponents wouldn't make sparring partners for world champions these days.
Look at the records of them going into the fights, some of them are ridiculous. Some guy's second and final fight of his career was against Robinson who was having about his 150th!

The average record of the opponents he beat were as below:
Fights 58.4 Wins 39.3 Losses 15.1 Draws 4.3

The average record of the opponents he lost to were as below:
Fights 53.6 Wins 42.1 Losses 9.2 Draws 2.4

Robinson also lost 9.5% of his fights!

(Numbers rounded to 1 decimal place before anyone jumps on the figures lol)

Im not disagreeing that Robinson was an amazing fighter but making the point that every fighters record can be picked apart. They figures above dont reflect the guy who is universally recognised as the greatest fighter of all time do they?

yeah, but to be fair he had over 200 fights. the modern fighter is lucky if he has a quarter of that.

[Emmseegee]

Its a completely different sport since they days. Some of they fights are ridiculous.
Look at the record for robinson on boxrec.
Over half of the guys shouldnt have been in the same ring as him

[StevenB]

Thing with Mayweather is when you consider the list of names he's faced over a long period, it would have been physically impossible to have fought them all at their peak! Because of the relatively long time between fights in the very modern era, it's just not possible to consistently fight the best over a long period when they're at their peak I don't believe.

Based on pure skill, I've not seen a better fighter in my lifetime than Floyd. Others have been far more exciting to watch and far more devastating, but in the art of hitting and not getting hit, Floyd is the best I've seen. Others may have been more elusive, but Floyd can whack a bit too.

[forcefraser]

The old timers always get the nod over the modern day fighter. It will always be the case.

Take Joe Louis. A great fighter in his ERA no doubt, but put him in prime for prime with Lennox Lewis and Lennox beats him every day of the week. Louis comes in the top 5 of the best fighter ever, but Lewis is 35th??

Disgraceful not to see Marvin Hagler in the top 10.

[Chris W 1982]

Anyone who thinks Floyd Mayweather would beat Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard hasnt watched Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard. Its as simple as that.

Can someone please explain to me how Mayweather beats a prime Hearns? It simply cant be done.

[Chris W 1982]

Thing with Mayweather is when you consider the list of names he's faced over a long period, it would have been physically impossible to have fought them all at their peak! Because of the relatively long time between fights in the very modern era, it's just not possible to consistently fight the best over a long period when they're at their peak I don't believe.

Based on pure skill, I've not seen a better fighter in my lifetime than Floyd. Others have been far more exciting to watch and far more devastating, but in the art of hitting and not getting hit, Floyd is the best I've seen. Others may have been more elusive, but Floyd can whack a bit too.

Dyu consider Mayweather to better than a prime Roy Jones?

Mayweather's best attribute has been his matchmaking. How a man goes to 140lb to face Bruseles and Gatti whilst Hatton, Cotto and Tszyu occupy the top spots is beyond me.

Hugely skilled and equally negative, Mayweather has proven to be a defensive genius in a vast majority of his contests but the DLH and Castillo performances are fresh in my mind and I often wonder what a younger, fresher DLH would have done to him.

Mayweather v Forrest at 147 would also have been intriguing but I'd be absolutely astonished if Floyd would have wanted any part of one of boxing's golden jabs.

Mayweather's record, certain performances and character make him an all-time great but there's so many questions that remain unanswered about him and the solutions to them problems could easily have been found.

[Finn]

Anyone who thinks Floyd Mayweather would beat Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard hasnt watched Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard. Its as simple as that.

Can someone please explain to me how Mayweather beats a prime Hearns? It simply cant be done.

These forums are littered with the carcases of posters who have claimed theres no way this fighter could beat that fighter, then been proved wrong when the fights actually happen. I've watched plenty of hagler, hearns, duran and leonard and i think PBF would have beaten them.

[jimcook]

Anyone who thinks Floyd Mayweather would beat Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard hasnt watched Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard. Its as simple as that.

Can someone please explain to me how Mayweather beats a prime Hearns? It simply cant be done.

These forums are littered with the carcases of posters who have claimed theres no way this fighter could beat that fighter, then been proved wrong when the fights actually happen. I've watched plenty of hagler, hearns, duran and leonard and i think PBF would have beaten them.

you being one of them. i seem to remember you going on about how katsidis was gonna rip burns head off and shit in his neck. what you know about boxing can be written on a postage stamp.you should stick to watching you tube videos of two bob hard men and beating up drunks.
if it wasnt dumb enough that youve got mayweather to beat hearns leonard and duran, youve just stated that he would beat hagler too. you are the man!

[Chris W 1982]

Anyone who thinks Floyd Mayweather would beat Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard hasnt watched Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard. Its as simple as that.

Can someone please explain to me how Mayweather beats a prime Hearns? It simply cant be done.

These forums are littered with the carcases of posters who have claimed theres no way this fighter could beat that fighter, then been proved wrong when the fights actually happen. I've watched plenty of hagler, hearns, duran and leonard and i think PBF would have beaten them.

you being one of them. i seem to remember you going on about how katsidis was gonna rip burns head off and shit in his neck. what you know about boxing can be written on a postage stamp.you should stick to watching you tube videos of two bob hard men and beating up drunks.
if it wasnt dumb enough that youve got mayweather to beat hearns leonard and duran, youve just stated that he would beat hagler too. you are the man!

I co-sign.

With sheer belief that Mayweather would beat Hearns, surely you can tell us all how he does it. Imagine Mayweather trying to hide on the ropes pot-shotting from the shoulder whilst Hearns struggles to find a way in.

Hearns would take a matter of seconds to find the range and once that was detected, Floyd wouldnt get near him all night and if he did then it ends instantly.

[Chris W 1982]

Anyone who thinks Floyd Mayweather would beat Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard hasnt watched Tommy Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard. Its as simple as that.

Can someone please explain to me how Mayweather beats a prime Hearns? It simply cant be done.

These forums are littered with the carcases of posters who have claimed theres no way this fighter could beat that fighter, then been proved wrong when the fights actually happen. I've watched plenty of hagler, hearns, duran and leonard and i think PBF would have beaten them.

you being one of them. i seem to remember you going on about how katsidis was gonna rip burns head off and shit in his neck. what you know about boxing can be written on a postage stamp.you should stick to watching you tube videos of two bob hard men and beating up drunks.
if it wasnt dumb enough that youve got mayweather to beat hearns leonard and duran, youve just stated that he would beat hagler too. you are the man!

I co-sign.

With sheer belief that Mayweather would beat Hearns, surely you can tell us all how he does it. Imagine Mayweather trying to hide on the ropes pot-shotting from the shoulder whilst Hearns struggles to find a way in.

Hearns would take a matter of seconds to find the range and once that was detected, Floyd wouldnt get near him all night and if he did then it ends instantly.