Would froch v ward in Nottingham be a different out come ?

[Trojans44]

No-one will agree but I didnt see the awesome performance that everyone else did. Froch basically wildly charged him and Bute couldnt cope. Whats so great about that? If anything he was a tad sloppy. The story of that fight was how astonishingly poor Bute turned to be.

Ward is so far ahead of Froch that the notion of them fighting again borders on comical.

Froch has an excellent record but in my mind that doesnt detract from the fact that when it really boils down it, he really isnt that good. He deserves credit for making the most of his limited ability.

[whiskey]

No-one will agree but I didnt see the awesome performance that everyone else did. Froch basically wildly charged him and Bute couldnt cope. Whats so great about that? If anything he was a tad sloppy. The story of that fight was how astonishingly poor Bute turned to be.

Ward is so far ahead of Froch that the notion of them fighting again borders on comical.

Froch has an excellent record but in my mind that doesnt detract from the fact that when it really boils down it, he really isnt that good. He deserves credit for making the most of his limited ability.

Your the guy who found it 'laughable' that anyone could pick Groves over Degale, a fighter whom 'could win a title tomorrow'.

And did you not say that Alex Arthur could have beaten everyone in and around his weight class 'if he lived up to his enormous potential' ?

You obviously have an incredible eye for ability.

[Dan Dares]

Ward is so far ahead of Froch that the notion of them fighting again borders on comical

Comical? That's bollocks.

Ward is obviously a very difficult boxer to beat, but his best wins are at home. If he came over (which he wont) I'd make it more or less 50/50.

[crusader]

Ward is so far ahead of Froch that the notion of them fighting again borders on comical

Comical? That's bollocks.

Ward is obviously a very difficult boxer to beat, but his best wins are at home. If he came over (which he wont) I'd make it more or less 50/50.

How would a different location make Froch significantly better? How would it significantly impair Ward? I don't think Froch offers much that Ward couldn't handle, regardless of location. They could fight in Froch's living room and I would favor Ward given his superior ability and decisive victory over Froch; labelling their rematch 50-50 and ascribing the result of their inital fight to location is unfair to Ward's ability, in my opinion.

Given the competitiveness of their bout, would you favor Dirrell over Froch if they rematch in the USA? Is Pascal-Froch II nearly 50-50 in Canada?

[Brute]

I would like to see froch v Kessler next in Nottingham as it would be a guaranteed cracker, but every time froch fights at home he raises his game massively, so would the crowd help him to victory against ward with a home advantage ?

The first Froch/Ward fight was close. A rematch would be a good fight anywhere. I doubt that the "home ground" would be the determining factor.

[Trojans44]

I did say Arthur failed to live up to his very considerable potential, I didnt say he would beat everyone in and around his weightclass. I did say that it was laughable to pick Groves over Degale and was obviously wrong. I was very surprised to learn that I'm not infallible.

I really hope that the bookies catch the same strain of hysteria and that Ward/Froch 2 is priced 50/50.

If subsequent posters think the Ward fight was close there's really no point reasoning with them. It just wasnt. Neither was the Taylor fight until Taylor's terrible problem with holding a shot was exposed.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Styles make fights. If Ward came to Nottingham (which he would never do anyway) it doesn't matter how many Froch fans get on their feet. He would still frustrate Froch and outpoint him.

However I could honestly see Bute beating Ward if they fought in Montreal. Ward may be a level above Froch – on the other hand he may just be all wrong stylistically but lose to other guys Froch would be able to impose his will on.

[Dan Dares]

How would a different location make Froch significantly better? How would it significantly impair Ward? I don't think Froch offers much that Ward couldn't handle, regardless of location. They could fight in Froch's living room and I would favor Ward given his superior ability and decisive victory over Froch; labelling their rematch 50-50 and ascribing the result of their initial fight to location is unfair to Ward's ability, in my opinion.

I'm not being unfair to ward's ability, and im certainly not ascribing the result of their initial fight to location. Froch was beaten fair by a very good boxer. I had it 111-117 from memory.

I do think Froch had an off-night though, and I think he'd try something different in the next fight. I think the Bute fight will give him huge confidence, as would the crowd if he fought at Nottingham, which i think would be a fair bit bigger. I would have Ward a slight favourite, but not much. He's never been away.

Given the competitiveness of their bout, would you favor Dirrell over Froch if they rematch in the USA?

Yep, probably would. He's one of the fastest boxers ive seen, a very tricky customer.

Is Pascal-Froch II nearly 50-50 in Canada?

Dunno.

[crusader]

Apologies for misconstruing your post; my construal was based on the reasoning below:

If you think the odds are tight due to the location, you don't think the one-sidedness of the original bout stemmed from fundamental differences in ability. If you're assigning nearly even odds to the rematch on this basis, you think location played a major role in determining the result of the original bout. Thus, you're largely ascribing that result to location, while taking innate differences out of the equation. This is unfair to Ward, who outclassed Froch at times with superior speed, defense, and in-fighting, abilities which don't, in my opinion, significantly change with location.

I'd make Ward a strong favorite. Froch is a very good fighter, but I don't see what he could offer that Ward couldn't deal with, regardless of a location change and its concomitants.

[jessi]

Apologies for misconstruing your post; my construal was based on the reasoning below:

If you think the odds are tight due to the location, you don't think the one-sidedness of the original bout stemmed from fundamental differences in ability. If you're assigning nearly even odds to the rematch on this basis, you think location played a major role in determining the result of the original bout. Thus, you're largely ascribing that result to location, while taking innate differences out of the equation. This is unfair to Ward, who outclassed Froch at times with superior speed, defense, and in-fighting, abilities which don't, in my opinion, significantly change with location.

I'd make Ward a strong favorite. Froch is a very good fighter, but I don't see what he could offer that Ward couldn't deal with, regardless of a location change and its concomitants.

That's a fair comment but I believe your missing my point, I'm simply asking if home advantage for froch and away disadvantage for ward might change things ! People say a ring is a ring and there right, but have they ever had a fight where there punches don't get a cheer and the most ordinary punches against them bring the house down, apart from playing into the minds of the judges it might also completely work against the mind of a boxer who isn't head strong !

[damianhucker1]

Thing is wards a former amateur star and olympian , hes fought away plenty of times and should know how to deal with it

[charlieb]

Ward's a bridge too far, and it's not in Froch's best interest to pursue a rematch. He may have performed a little better than some of his contemporaries, but they appeared to be on completely different levels, it wasn't a close fight in any sense. Location won't impact that unless there's a level of corruption employed that would put Arum's cronies to shame.

Ward's horrible style won't come unstuck until he meets someone like Dirrell, and even then I don't think Dirrell has the required mental make-up to pull it off. Froch's only chance would be to land a haymaker, possible, but unlikely. The same goes for the rest of the field, Ward's best left alone.

[Syntax Error]

I would like to see froch v Kessler next in Nottingham as it would be a guaranteed cracker, but every time froch fights at home he raises his game massively, so would the crowd help him to victory against ward with a home advantage ?

I doubt it.

Ward was so superior in all aspects of boxing that I doubt that a home advantage would be enough to make the difference.

Saying that, I do believe Carl would be better in rematch because he now knows how good Ward really is & will try & make the necessary adjustsments.

[Dan Dares]

Thus, you're largely ascribing that result to location

No I'm not. I'm saying Froch had a bad night, and I think he'd do a lot better if he fought him again, especially at home. I think it gives him an advantage.

You suggest that travelling away from home will have no effect whatsoever on Ward's performance? I think it might, and I think 10,000 fans shouting for Froch might too.

[crusader]

Apologies for misconstruing your post; my construal was based on the reasoning below:

If you think the odds are tight due to the location, you don't think the one-sidedness of the original bout stemmed from fundamental differences in ability. If you're assigning nearly even odds to the rematch on this basis, you think location played a major role in determining the result of the original bout. Thus, you're largely ascribing that result to location, while taking innate differences out of the equation. This is unfair to Ward, who outclassed Froch at times with superior speed, defense, and in-fighting, abilities which don't, in my opinion, significantly change with location.

I'd make Ward a strong favorite. Froch is a very good fighter, but I don't see what he could offer that Ward couldn't deal with, regardless of a location change and its concomitants.

That's a fair comment but I believe your missing my point, I'm simply asking if home advantage for froch and away disadvantage for ward might change things ! People say a ring is a ring and there right, but have they ever had a fight where there punches don't get a cheer and the most ordinary punches against them bring the house down, apart from playing into the minds of the judges it might also completely work against the mind of a boxer who isn't head strong !

I understood you.

I'm suggesting that a sizeable disparity between will remain, despite a location shift. The disparity would, in my opinion, produce a bout that isn't competitive enough for the judges to give Froch, even in Nottingham.

[crusader]

Thus, you're largely ascribing that result to location

No I'm not. I'm saying Froch had a bad night, and I think he'd do a lot better if he fought him again, especially at home. I think it gives him an advantage.

You suggest that travelling away from home will have no effect whatsoever on Ward's performance? I think it might, and I think 10,000 fans shouting for Froch might too.

That was my construal of your first post. I still think you've suggested that location--through its respective impact on the fighters--was salient in determining the outcome of the original bout. If you didn't, it's nonsensical to state "Ward is obviously a very difficult boxer to beat, but his best wins are at home. If he came over (which he wont) I'd make it more or less 50/50."

I'm not suggesting that Ward is unaffected by travelling, although that may be true. I claim that the fundamental disparity between Froch and Ward wouldn't be eliminated by location shifts. Froch, whether in the USA or Nottingham, offers nothing that Ward can't handle. Conversely, Ward offers speed and skills that Froch can't handle, in my opinion.

[davie]

changing the venue of his biggest 3 fights to dat

froch vs kessler in nottingham. froch wins this time. but i'm not sure it's the venue that swings it, it's the fighters,

froch vs bute in nottingham. bute still wins, but froch might be that bit more confident and snatch a couple rounds

bute vs froch in canada. i believe if bute can get his head in the right place (a big if) this can be a lot closer fight next time.
i still fancy froch, as the last win was so emphatic, but it could be a very interesting fight to watch

[whiskey]

I did say Arthur failed to live up to his very considerable potential

So by your logic, sometimes a fighter does not fight to their true potential sometimes ?

When Carl tries to force fights, he is less effective - as evident in Taylor and Ward fights abroad.

But when he goes with the flow and is switched on, he's a 50-50 fight against anyone. When he is reading a fighter he is far better than trying bully them.

When he is patient, waiting for the leaks to appear in their game then he can punish them. Once he gets them reeling he is a great finisher.

He tried to grind Ward, but he was too savvy for that. Next time he'd make changes and try a completely different tactic.

I'm not saying victory for Carl is assured by any means - but he would fair better.

And if the fight was in nottingham, nothing would prepare Ward for that at all. Amateur fans sit with dozens of other nation's fans at events. The arena would be very raucous and intimidating indeed.

[Ezzard]

Thanks for the reply Gomez…

I don’t understand how such a poor fighter as Carl has beaten so many top fighters… Amazing isn’t it? I tend to rate how good someone is by how well they actually do in the ring. I know it’s old fashioned…

I also don’t get why Carl wouldn’t want a rematch with Ward. He’s proved over and over that he wants to fight the best. Why wouldn’t he want to fight the top guy. Carl is clearly number 2 at the moment. And even if he loses again it doesn’t harm his rep.

The venue has to make a difference. Maybe not enough of a difference. I can accept that. But it would be a factor. I had the first fight 117-112 (but I accept I am probably biased towards Carl). A strict ref… Bit of a home advantage… Fans screaming when carl lands… Might be enough… Or maybe he loses a tight decision… Or even just closer than last time… So what? Carl, by always fighting the best, has shown himself to be bullet–proof.

[mickey1975]

I did say Arthur failed to live up to his very considerable potential

So by your logic, sometimes a fighter does not fight to their true potential sometimes ?

When Carl tries to force fights, he is less effective - as evident in Taylor and Ward fights abroad.

But when he goes with the flow and is switched on, he's a 50-50 fight against anyone. When he is reading a fighter he is far better than trying bully them.

When he is patient, waiting for the leaks to appear in their game then he can punish them. Once he gets them reeling he is a great finisher.

He tried to grind Ward, but he was too savvy for that. Next time he'd make changes and try a completely different tactic.

I'm not saying victory for Carl is assured by any means - but he would fair better.

And if the fight was in nottingham, nothing would prepare Ward for that at all. Amateur fans sit with dozens of other nation's fans at events. The arena would be very raucous and intimidating indeed.

And Ward would never, ever, come over. Not because he is scared, but because he makes more at home and has already beat him easily. Froch has only ever travelled because he had no choice. TV didnt want him and his promoter had no say. He cried about the location for the AAA bout and was clearly unsettled by taking on Kessler in Denmark! He must know how Dirrel feels...

[Ezzard]

Carl didn’t slither out of facing Ward like Andre did…

[Counter-puncher]

nobody in world boxing slithers quite like Dirrell does....

[whiskey]

Carl didn’t slither out of facing Ward like Andre did…

He slithered out of a Bute fight too. Said 'no way I'm fighting a champion in his hometown.

Fancy that eh? A challenger not having to leave his hometown and instead has the champion delivered to him?

Although it does happen sometimes (Bute against Froch, Froch against Kessler, Kessler against Ward).

But Dirrel ain't done sh*t with his tedious career to command an audience wanting to see him - and he must be the most poorly advised active fighter out there.

He left Al Haymon a couple of months ago... To be managed by his grandpa FFS !!

The Dirrels are like the Klumps, all sitting farting on the sofa playing Madden on their playstation.

[Dan Dares]

nobody in world boxing slithers quite like Dirrell does....

He's bloody quick.

[lefthook82]

Carl Froch is a great fighter but try as I might, I can't take to him. Ward would deal with him again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I beat him, Carl conceded he had lost to the better man. But since then he has been excusing the defeat by saying he was much more fully focused and on his game against Bute.

‘I don’t buy into that. What I do believe is what he said at the time, that he was in the best shape of his life for our fight.

‘Why wouldn’t he have been? As the Super Six final and a title unifier it was the biggest fight of his life. The fact is that I had a lot to do with his problems that night. He couldn’t get to me and there will be nothing different if we meet again.’

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