curtis wood wrote:After reading what most people in the know seem to be saying I think maybe its time for me to admit to myself that the majority of fighters are using peds, but if I admit that then that puts a different slant on why I got into this sport in the first place, I started boxing because I looked up to fighters and was in awe of some of them and use to watch the tmv and say I want to be just like him, so if I'm to accept that some of my favourite fighters are juiced up that makes me think well what's the point, I feel like a kid who just found out farther christmas isn't real, sad day for me if I'm to believe what I'm being told
That's sad, Curtis. For what it's worth, I don't believe the practice is very widespread. Most gyms/trainers I know wouldn't countenance it, even if they could organise it, which I have my doubts about. But I might be wrong.
However, how do we know? That's the point. Get some proper testing in, FFS.
curtis wood wrote:After reading what most people in the know seem to be saying I think maybe its time for me to admit to myself that the majority of fighters are using peds, but if I admit that then that puts a different slant on why I got into this sport in the first place, I started boxing because I looked up to fighters and was in awe of some of them and use to watch the tmv and say I want to be just like him, so if I'm to accept that some of my favourite fighters are juiced up that makes me think well what's the point, I feel like a kid who just found out farther christmas isn't real, sad day for me if I'm to believe what I'm being told
It's a sad day for us all Curtis, but especially for boxers like yourself and even more so for Dave Ferguson
and thats the problem right there, the 1st time i watched usain bolt run like the wind my 1st thought was hes defo cheating to be able to run that fast, boxing is heading that way and that is bad news, if its common knowledge that people are taking stuff it makes it harder to accept a defeat like a man, instead people will think hes defo on gear and to beat him im gunna have to get with the programm, before you know it the game is riddled with cheats and its game over for boxing as we know it
It's not rife at all. Utter bull. Larry came into Boxing from being a good standard sprinter and a chemist! He'd also spent years in prison for dishonest crimes! It will be the athletics culture in him.
Interesting thread. I'm in the common sense camp that believe that boxing peds are probably rarely unused at the level that Larry reached at but possibly fairly well used at international title level.
Larry has disgraced himself personally but not the sport so much. He came across as intelligent, earnest and thoughtful but he was a lying cheat. I don't think forum members should take it personally.
Looking at him (i met him once at the Peacock Gym) it was impossible not to have suspicions but the words of that US football coach quoted earlier ring very true. I've heard it said before too; The PEDS won't change you into a boxer who can't fight into a great but if you are already at least very good it can give you an extra edge. There is too much skill involved.
I think that this is one of the reasons that Mosley, RJJ and James Toney are cut some slack because that have/had great natural gifts and skills which definitely appear to have more reason for their wins that any superhuman strength or stamina.
I was thinking of that steroid monster Bob Sapp too. Brute strength would perhaps make him more exciting to watch under Queensbury rules but i don't think he necessarily get any closer to the top in boxing with peds than without them.
curtis wood wrote:and thats the problem right there, the 1st time i watched usain bolt run like the wind my 1st thought was hes defo cheating to be able to run that fast, boxing is heading that way and that is bad news, if its common knowledge that people are taking stuff it makes it harder to accept a defeat like a man, instead people will think hes defo on gear and to beat him im gunna have to get with the programm, before you know it the game is riddled with cheats and its game over for boxing as we know it
Curtis, i think people without inside knowledge of the sport are making out the PED problem to be more then it actually is...it's actually laughable some people are claiming 90% when i'd put the figure more like 10% and that's probably exaggerating the figure.
curtis wood wrote:After reading what most people in the know seem to be saying I think maybe its time for me to admit to myself that the majority of fighters are using peds, but if I admit that then that puts a different slant on why I got into this sport in the first place, I started boxing because I looked up to fighters and was in awe of some of them and use to watch the tmv and say I want to be just like him, so if I'm to accept that some of my favourite fighters are juiced up that makes me think well what's the point, I feel like a kid who just found out farther christmas isn't real, sad day for me if I'm to believe what I'm being told
That's sad, Curtis. For what it's worth, I don't believe the practice is very widespread. Most gyms/trainers I know wouldn't countenance it, even if they could organise it, which I have my doubts about. But I might be wrong.
However, how do we know? That's the point. Get some proper testing in, FFS.
Who decides which PEDs (supplements etc) are allowable? Is Norateen ok to use? Some of the boxers are sponsored and supplied by supplement manufacturers. It all seems shady to me; the supplement business is big money.
curtis wood wrote:and thats the problem right there, the 1st time i watched usain bolt run like the wind my 1st thought was hes defo cheating to be able to run that fast, boxing is heading that way and that is bad news, if its common knowledge that people are taking stuff it makes it harder to accept a defeat like a man, instead people will think hes defo on gear and to beat him im gunna have to get with the programm, before you know it the game is riddled with cheats and its game over for boxing as we know it
Curtis, i think people without inside knowledge of the sport are making out the PED problem to be more then it actually is...it's actually laughable some people are claiming 90% when i'd put the figure more like 10% and that's probably exaggerating the figure.
Rubbish, the 10 % being the ones caught, get real.
I've thought a guy who got banned after we thought by testing positive. BUT IMO it is a very very small minority who cheat, Larry coming out saying all this after he gets caught is laughable. Also I really don't see wot peds would help when boxing tbh
I think part of the problem is that 99.9% of athletes will take something that they know to be legal if they believe it will help their performance, I used to take anti-inflammatories before playing rugby and cricket.
But everything that I took was given to me by the club doctor, and we were tested every three months by the club - in part because they cared about us and partly because they were helping local schools in an anti-drug campaign.
But with boxers and other pro athletes, who are they getting supplements from?
Who is checking them?
I'm not citing any particular case here but I'd wager that a lot of athletes have been busted having been told by their supplier that their stuff was legal.
That's different to (say) Ben Johnson, who was sick of being beaten by Carl Lewis and decided to introduce the juice in cycles.... or Flo Jo, who was blatantly cheating and decided to retire when a more thorough routine was brought in.
With boxing I think that with the other inherent risks such as losing weight etc - that is widely ignored - a testing programme of simply pissing in a pot once every three months and then a post fight blood test would be a huge step in the right direction.
If it's money that's the issue, f**king find it from somewhere!!
Arniesgym wrote:I've thought a guy who got banned after we thought by testing positive. BUT IMO it is a very very small minority who cheat, Larry coming out saying all this after he gets caught is laughable. Also I really don't see wot peds would help when boxing tbh
If PEDs did not help a boxer then they would not be used and supplement manufacturers would not carry advertisements on boxers shorts and in boxing magazines.
Although PEDs cannot help a boxers technique or instincts; if; as advertised; they help hydration, carry electrolites efficiently, help with muscle recovery and with stamina/endurance then a boxer using them is at a physical and nutritional advantage over a non using boxer.
If they hindered a boxer then t wouldn't be such an issue.
The BoxRec home page has a banner ad for a supplement manufacturer/supplier and clicking on the ad shows the claimed effects of use and testimonials from users.
LeedsLad wrote:I think part of the problem is that 99.9% of athletes will take something that they know to be legal if they believe it will help their performance, I used to take anti-inflammatories before playing rugby and cricket.
But everything that I took was given to me by the club doctor, and we were tested every three months by the club - in part because they cared about us and partly because they were helping local schools in an anti-drug campaign.
But with boxers and other pro athletes, who are they getting supplements from?
Who is checking them?
I'm not citing any particular case here but I'd wager that a lot of athletes have been busted having been told by their supplier that their stuff was legal.
That's different to (say) Ben Johnson, who was sick of being beaten by Carl Lewis and decided to introduce the juice in cycles.... or Flo Jo, who was blatantly cheating and decided to retire when a more thorough routine was brought in.
With boxing I think that with the other inherent risks such as losing weight etc - that is widely ignored - a testing programme of simply pissing in a pot once every three months and then a post fight blood test would be a huge step in the right direction.
If it's money that's the issue, f**king find it from somewhere!!
curtis wood wrote:After reading what most people in the know seem to be saying I think maybe its time for me to admit to myself that the majority of fighters are using peds, but if I admit that then that puts a different slant on why I got into this sport in the first place, I started boxing because I looked up to fighters and was in awe of some of them and use to watch the tmv and say I want to be just like him, so if I'm to accept that some of my favourite fighters are juiced up that makes me think well what's the point, I feel like a kid who just found out farther christmas isn't real, sad day for me if I'm to believe what I'm being told
That's sad, Curtis. For what it's worth, I don't believe the practice is very widespread. Most gyms/trainers I know wouldn't countenance it, even if they could organise it, which I have my doubts about. But I might be wrong.
However, how do we know? That's the point. Get some proper testing in, FFS.
totally agree isnt this the type ogf thing the bbof c board who should be organising?
dondada wrote:
That's sad, Curtis. For what it's worth, I don't believe the practice is very widespread. Most gyms/trainers I know wouldn't countenance it, even if they could organise it, which I have my doubts about. But I might be wrong.
However, how do we know? That's the point. Get some proper testing in, FFS.
totally agree isnt this the type ogf thing the bbof c board who should be organising?
costs money of course.
It's like I said in another thread. The guys testing me when I was a swimmer and a rugby player were never purely testing rugby players. And during my time in the navy it was an independent organisation who did the drug testing for us there.
The BBBoC need to use some of their money to get this in order and pay what can't be a huge amount to get one of these organisations to take charge of drug testing at domestic level. We've seen in the 2 threads here that at European level the EBU take care of this and obviously above that, the respective organisations take charge of their drug testing policies. I don't think it would cost that much to have drug testing as standard for British title fights, and random visits to gyms or post fight by the drug testing guys to test boxers who have a BBBoC licence.
The really sly ones are the ones that turn a blind eye to it all and hook a few in and turn a blind eye to others; Roach is making a living; the others a fortune.
I've never liked him to be honest, he's just a remarkably arrogant man, and a pretty overrated trainer IMO, all that Dr. Roach crap got way out of hand.
Not nearly as much of a tw@t as Alex Ariza though. He should be stoned to death.
