Muhammed Ali v Jack Dempsey

[Tomasino]

Yes he was, a great light heavy. Crawl out of jacks ass Irene. Smokin Joe would have knocked the tar out of him. I'm sure the great Fireman Jim Flynn would have beaten Joe by KO though

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yes he was, a great light heavy. Crawl out of jacks ass Irene. Smokin Joe would have knocked the tar out of him. I'm sure the great Fireman Jim Flynn would have beaten Joe by KO though

Still getting your facts backward, Davey Boy?

Frazier couldnt handle Dempsey's punching power if his mothers life depended on it.

And Joe thought he had his hands full with Quarry...

[BoxBuzz]

Quarry would give Jack all he could handle......


for a few rounds.

[Alan Partridge]

Dempsey is all wrong for Ali.

Dempsey by SD

[BoxBuzz]

Dempsey is all wrong for Ali.

Dempsey by SD

Meh....

There are a few elite fighters that these words may not have serious meaning for. Sure some opponents will be more challenging, but by nature of who they are, they will ALWAYS have a shot. All things being equal...weight division etc.

Jofre, SRR, Benny Leonard, Willie Pep....and I think Ali would fit in this list. There are of course others as well.

However by stating the outcome as a SD....it seems you would agree.

[dempseyfire]

Yes he was, a great light heavy. Crawl out of jacks ass Irene. Smokin Joe would have knocked the tar out of him. I'm sure the great Fireman Jim Flynn would have beaten Joe by KO though

Dempsey was bigger than Frazier, but try again . . .

[BoxBuzz]

Yes he was, a great light heavy. Crawl out of jacks ass Irene. Smokin Joe would have knocked the tar out of him. I'm sure the great Fireman Jim Flynn would have beaten Joe by KO though

Dempsey was bigger than Frazier, but try again . . .

Really? Surely not by much.

Jack was taller by (officially) by 1.5 inches....though some would say Joe was not really 5 11 1/2. I met him, and I stand 5'10...and I THOUGHT I was as tall or taller but he was such a fireplug of a presence that it could have just been my imagination.

Jack's reach was 77" and Joe's 73

But on the other hand....Joe fought (on average) at about 15 pounds higher weight than Jack. Like I say, Joe was a fireplug, He was a guy with a substantial frame.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yes he was, a great light heavy. Crawl out of jacks ass Irene. Smokin Joe would have knocked the tar out of him. I'm sure the great Fireman Jim Flynn would have beaten Joe by KO though

Dempsey was bigger than Frazier, but try again . . .

Really? Surely not by much.

Jack was taller by (officially) by 1.5 inches....though some would say Joe was not really 5 11 1/2. I met him, and I stand 5'10...and I THOUGHT I was as tall or taller but he was such a fireplug of a presence that it could have just been my imagination.

Jack's reach was 77" and Joe's 73

But on the other hand....Joe fought (on average) at about 15 pounds higher weight than Jack. Like I say, Joe was a fireplug, He was a guy with a substantial frame.

Astute point.

If theres one thing sure to sink Dempsey, its a 15-pound weight disadvantage. LOL.

[Tomasino]

Yes he was, a great light heavy. Crawl out of jacks ass Irene. Smokin Joe would have knocked the tar out of him. I'm sure the great Fireman Jim Flynn would have beaten Joe by KO though

Dempsey was bigger than Frazier, but try again . . .

Pretty sure DBM meant Tommy Gibbons (was a great LHW).

That's what I meant, and pretty near the end of his long career. Anyway I'm just saying, I don't rate Dempsey much at all, I understand lots of guys idolise him so will finish up here

[BoxBuzz]

Astute? ....I thought of it as subtle, and perhaps irrelevant other than a formality. (I'll jump to the bold assumption that we agree on this.)

I would add that this particular point could be sensibly processed easily by many....while frustratingly floating just outside the grasp of a few.

(perhaps due to the difference in "reach".)

[John Galt]

In Dempsey's book about boxing technique, he said that he weighed 180 for the Willard fight. He said they announced him at 187.

[dempseyfire]

Dempsey at his peak was completely ripped to shreds at 190 lbs. He could've weight a very solid 210-215 like Holyfield did easily but they trained for endurance and maximum speed.
Frazier, a phenomenally conditioned athlete but definitely a higher body-fat % at his peak weight of 205.

Regardless, there's no discernable difference in terms of body frame but Jack has the height and reach advantage.

As for Dempsey saying he weighed 180, I don't see why anyone would've lied about the public weights, especially since Dempsey had been consistently weighing 185-200 the year prior to fighting Willard. Boxers have a habit of stretching the truth to make themselves look better . . just see Ruby Robert's claim that he beat Corbett weighing in the 150s . . .

[BoxBuzz]

Dempsey at his peak was completely ripped to shreds at 190 lbs. He could've weight a very solid 210-215 like Holyfield did easily but they trained for endurance and maximum speed.
Frazier, a phenomenally conditioned athlete but definitely a higher body-fat % at his peak weight of 205.

Regardless, there's no discernable difference in terms of body frame but Jack has the height and reach advantage.

As for Dempsey saying he weighed 180, I don't see why anyone would've lied about the public weights. Boxers have a habit of stretching the truth to make themselves look better . . just see Ruby Robert's claim that he beat Corbett weighing in the 150s . . .

sensible....

[dempseyfire]

Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

Dempsey was stopped only once in over 83 fights, and that was a likely dive. Dempsey getting dropped/stunned by Firpo and Carpentier isn't any worse than Frazier getting hurt and dropped twice by Bonavena or having his knees buckle vs Joe Bugner/Manuel Ramos.

Dempsey didn't fight those guys after barely ten pro bouts. Of course you know that, but choose not to mention it as you overrate your hero. Dempsey would have been slaughtered by either Frazier or Ali.[/quote]

Dempsey also didn't have an extensive amateur career and prominent backers ensuring top-of-the-line training camps from his pro debut onward. By contrast Dempsey at the beginning of 1917 (for his lone, dubious KO loss to Flynn) was without a consistent manager, basically training himself, and taking whatever fights he could whenever he could to put food on the table.

If you'd told Yank Durham that Frazier would've "slaughtered" Jack Dempsey he would've laughed in your face.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Awww, don't worry, your boy was the best kid. Nobody could touch him.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I must say, whatever ones pick, I find the idea Dempsey cant hurt Frazier hysterically funny.

Fraziers heart was beyond reproach. His chin was a totally different story.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Dave Boy,

Regarding your last post, NOW it matters when a guy is at the end of his career!? LOL.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He could hurt Joe, that's the only response you will get from posts that indicate Jack will just toss out a right hand and a hook and knock Frazier flat. The argument has been waged too many times by the same people to bother discussing it rationally, just don't use your own hyperbole and then try to call out others for theirs. It only comes up when somebody tosses out bait - it's usually you.

I would strongly disagree with Dempsey having a better chin than Frazier.

[Ezzard]

Dempsey’s biggest problem with Ali is that he likes to start quick and so does Ali…pace himself in the mid rounds and come back again late. But he has the crouch, the bob and weave, the left hook…the foot speed… Ali wins most of the time. But not all of the time.

Against Frazier those first few rounds will be all Jack’s. Then Joe storms into the fight. I think Irene is gambling on those early rounds to be enough for Jack to close the show. He might be right. Even if he isn’t, it’s a fair argument.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Which ticket would you pay more for, Ezz?

[Ezzard]

Which ticket would you pay more for, Ezz?

Ticket to watch the fight(s)… Jack and Joe…

Ticket, as in a betting slip for who wins… I probably lean towards your logic.

[Bricks]

Ali 81 v Dempsey 1927 lol!

[Bricks]

Frazier is as perfect a waiting victim as a young Dempsey could ask for.

Its only a question of how many knockdowns the ref will permit before Frazier is put out of his misery.

I agree with this and am impressed by most of your posts on this topic.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ouch Irene, who needs to reevaluate now?

[Seamus]

I try to stay out of Heavyweight discussions, but eventually couldn't resist this one. So, how does an Ali vs Dempsey bout play out ? It would be like Dempsey fighting a bigger stronger version of Tunney.