Poorly attended shows?

[safeerah]

Yeah promoters seem to have forgotten how promotion works which is a massive shame..Over pricing and the move to subscription TV is slowly killing the sport.

Promoters need to stop depending on boxers to sell nearly all the tickets and be more pro-active. They should employ marketing companies to market their shows, spend more on advertising and make it more family orientated like the football industry did when they suffered from attendance reduction. In Tennis, football, cricket and other sports the competitors don't have to sell the tickets. The Promoters have to attract non boxing fans as well as boxing fans who are not linked to the fighters on the show, maybe they need to provide more entertainment in between fights then a bunch of girls with hardly any clothes on.

[damianhucker1]

Yeah promoters seem to have forgotten how promotion works which is a massive shame..Over pricing and the move to subscription TV is slowly killing the sport.

Promoters need to stop depending on boxers to sell nearly all the tickets and be more pro-active. They should employ marketing companies to market their shows, spend more on advertising and make it more family orientated like the football industry did when they suffered from attendance reduction. In Tennis, football, cricket and other sports the competitors don't have to sell the tickets. The Promoters have to attract non boxing fans as well as boxing fans who are not linked to the fighters on the show, maybe they need to provide more entertainment in between fights then a bunch of girls with hardly any clothes on.

I agree with you in principle but the problem i believe is money , any promotor wants to maximise what they can earn in the end product so in that theory doing as you just described is great , but as there are several people around that can only really be considered as sharks it makes things awkward as they know they could lose any particular boxer , regardless of contracts etc , so they want as much return as possible instantly as well as long term , which those 2 ways dont exactly go hand in hand , its not easy to make money both instantly and in the future , so the 2 kind of counteract each other , if things could be changed it would benefit all the promotors and the sport as a whole but would mean MOST promotors changing their ways to build the future all at the same time , unwaiveringly , can you imagine 95% of the promotors all working along the same lines to meet one target ? as much id like it to be the case it just wont happen .

in my view the thing making the shows decline is the desire to make short term gain , but how do we stop this , its difficult for small hall promotors for example to cover all their costs , theyve invested money into it , its natural they want to regain some of that investment before one of the bigger promotors come in and take their hot prospect , i really dont see how this could ever change .

if i ever win the euromillions rollover jackpot put on some boxing extravaganzas and build a fan base , but unfortunately thats unlikely to ever happen , and i believe its that kind of investment that would be needed to turn the tide .

What we need is one of these rich foreign oil tycoons who buy british football clubs to spot some potential in british boxing long term , and pump in some heavy investment , but again i think thats unlikely unfortunately .

[iamasadlittleboy]

Lets not forget "free" publicity though. Things like getting fighters onto mainstream TV shows such as BBC Breakfast, The One Show, Loose Women, This Morning, The Wright Stuff, Question of Sport, Match Of The Day, Soccer FM, Saturday Kitchen, Graham Norton, Day Break, Lorraine and The Alan Titchmarsh Show. Get their faces out there get people talking about them and get them some attention.

Eubank Jr was on This Morning the other week and things like that will help fighters become known. Boxers themselves are great at getting on social media (Facebook, Twitter and sites like this) but they need to get on mainstream TV to really attract the casual fans.

[Lightsoot]

Lets not forget "free" publicity though. Things like getting fighters onto mainstream TV shows such as BBC Breakfast, The One Show, Loose Women, This Morning, The Wright Stuff, Question of Sport, Match Of The Day, Soccer FM, Saturday Kitchen, Graham Norton, Day Break, Lorraine and The Alan Titchmarsh Show. Get their faces out there get people talking about them and get them some attention.

Eubank Jr was on This Morning the other week and things like that will help fighters become known. Boxers themselves are great at getting on social media (Facebook, Twitter and sites like this) but they need to get on mainstream TV to really attract the casual fans.

Are for your real? Boxers, particularly small hall ones, are lucky to get on their local radio shows let alone a mainstream TV show.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Lets not forget "free" publicity though. Things like getting fighters onto mainstream TV shows such as BBC Breakfast, The One Show, Loose Women, This Morning, The Wright Stuff, Question of Sport, Match Of The Day, Soccer FM, Saturday Kitchen, Graham Norton, Day Break, Lorraine and The Alan Titchmarsh Show. Get their faces out there get people talking about them and get them some attention.

Eubank Jr was on This Morning the other week and things like that will help fighters become known. Boxers themselves are great at getting on social media (Facebook, Twitter and sites like this) but they need to get on mainstream TV to really attract the casual fans.

Are for your real? Boxers, particularly small hall ones, are lucky to get on their local radio shows let alone a mainstream TV show.

I wasn't aiming that necessarily at the small hall guys but fighters as a whole. Guys like Cleverly, Burns, DeGale, Groves and the like should be getting their face on to national TV (which I probably should have said). I understand that isn't the out and out idea of the thread but it's something that bigger promoters and fighters need to be looking at, especially if they are tucked away on subscription TV with little to no advertising.

The small hall guys are unlikely to ever get that sort of chance but the bigger names need to try and get as much attention as they can with the hope of a trickle down effect.

[fightscorecollector]

Disagree with the Kelvin Hall show being poorly attended - one of the tiers was full and the other maybe had 100-150 seats at the back vacant. Could have had more floor seats in but there must have been at the very least 1600 -1800 there considering the capacity is 2500.

I was there also and i agree with what you say.

[dalcumly]

Great stuff on this thread ,and its the type of thing which drew me to this forum . Sensible discussions without the usual 'in jokes ' between friends .
I would add something else to the debate ,and I don't want promoters to take ALL the blame , but the old promoters loved boxing first and foremost . They KNEW what the fans wanted , because they were fans themselves . According to people I've met , Jack Solomons , hard headed businessman that he was , simply enjoyed being in and around boxers and boxing people .
Eddie Hearn seems to love the involvement ,as does Frank Maloney . Don't know if there are too many others !!!

[STEVE WOOD]

This is a good thread and I am working with Jeff Thomas to see what we can do to ensure VIP events are attractive to the general fans and not just the mates of boxers fighting . We have plenty of ideas which will be put into place for our first shows in the new season , 5 to be announced next week in different parts of the North West.(WRIC PM me and happy to meet for a chat)

Macho is dead right about the economy and we have to make sure the boxing show is a value for money event which will be a treat for the punters and they want to come back to the next event , even if there mate is not boxing. Going to work loads on the VIP brand and try to make people think of our events as special !!!

Also going to try and help the lads more aware of how they can sell tickets as the day a boxer can just turn up with a kitbag , fight a nody and walk away with his cash telling everyone how great he is have gone - and yes I have been quilty of assisting that model , but no longer.

STEVE WOOD

[saturday_kid]

Lets be honest us as hardcore fans dont want to see Prospect Vs Journeyman all the time - but were already sold, to make money promoters need the casual fans turning up to make money - and at £30 atleast for a ticket the only casual fans who are going to turn up are going to be the friends/family of prospects on the bill (who wont really know/care who theyre boy is fighting)

[saturday_kid]

Steve as WRINMC I would also be happy to lend a helping hand with your shows up here in the north west - been to a few and always enjoyed them.

[The Insider]

This is a good thread and I am working with Jeff Thomas to see what we can do to ensure VIP events are attractive to the general fans and not just the mates of boxers fighting . We have plenty of ideas which will be put into place for our first shows in the new season , 5 to be announced next week in different parts of the North West.(WRIC PM me and happy to meet for a chat)

Macho is dead right about the economy and we have to make sure the boxing show is a value for money event which will be a treat for the punters and they want to come back to the next event , even if there mate is not boxing. Going to work loads on the VIP brand and try to make people think of our events as special !!!

Also going to try and help the lads more aware of how they can sell tickets as the day a boxer can just turn up with a kitbag , fight a nody and walk away with his cash telling everyone how great he is have gone - and yes I have been quilty of assisting that model , but no longer.

STEVE WOOD

Good luck Steve. Nice to see your being pro active and taking the time to listen to the masses.

[earsjohn]

Cost is a big part of it, especially aligned to the "customer experience". I love fights at York Hall - it is drenched with history and the atmosphere at the right fights can be electric, but one semi-recent example shows just how wrong things can be.

A stacked card was announced 4-6 weeks prior to fight date - Bellew-McKenzie II, Larry O-John McD, Frankie Gavin, Liam Walsh and Ronnie Heffron. I used these fights to convince a couple of "casual" mates to part with £40 plus £5 booking fee and come along. As fight night approached, the card disintegrated to the point that Larry v Big John was the headline with Frankie Gavin outclassing an overmatched and exceedingly late opponent, Michael Lomax. There were no other fights of particular interest or entertainment on the undercard (Heffron, Skeete and Morgan all in typical prospect v journeyman fare).

Then you have the experience inside - access to the bar is abysmal, the seating is a joke and there is zero information about what is happening (aside from the out of date programme). When you consider what else you can get for £40 from an entertainment point of view, it does raise questions. The same money will get you in to most Premier League football games, a day of international cricket, a west end show, a mid range 3 course meal, tickets for a gig along with a few beers and maybe a t-shirt.

My question would be, then, in the context of competing entertainment provision, does boxing provide good value for money?

[mfc_se15]

Then you have the experience inside - access to the bar is abysmal, the seating is a joke and there is zero information about what is happening (aside from the out of date programme).

Good post mate. Have highlighted the above, as it is something that has always puzzled me. Why don't they generally put a (timed) running order in the programme? Don't get me wrong obviously I know fights can end early so the time would end up being a bit out, and you would then bring in the 'floating' fights. Just something that annoys me as on the odd occasion I take the old man with me to some of these small hall shows, hes not so bothered as I am about having a beer, so I buy him a programme that he can read whilst I'm at the bar - but when I come back and ask whose up next you can't work it out until the MC announces the name because the order in the programme seems to bear no relevance to the order on fight night!

[LeedsLad]

Fair play to Steve for being willing to listen to views.... all I'd ask is that unbeaten prospects aren't put in with journeymen that don't even try and win a round, never mind the fight.

I suppose the problem is that small hall promoters might manage these journeymen, and feel under obligation to keep them working and earning.

Why not put Johnny Greaves in with Kristian Laight, or Mickey Coveney?

If you put on entertaining shows, people WILL watch. 60-54 x 10 is rubbish. Not interested in the slightest.

If managers/trainers don't want to put their fighters in remotely risky fights, just tell them there's no work, the job centre is round the corner. Fighters will earn good money if they take proper fights and build up a bit of a profile.

Look at Froch, was in the backwaters for yonks, but the cream always rises to the top in the end, he's a star now. Marvin Hagler was much the same.

[bripez]

This is a good thread and I am working with Jeff Thomas to see what we can do to ensure VIP events are attractive to the general fans and not just the mates of boxers fighting . We have plenty of ideas which will be put into place for our first shows in the new season , 5 to be announced next week in different parts of the North West.(WRIC PM me and happy to meet for a chat)

Macho is dead right about the economy and we have to make sure the boxing show is a value for money event which will be a treat for the punters and they want to come back to the next event , even if there mate is not boxing. Going to work loads on the VIP brand and try to make people think of our events as special !!!

Also going to try and help the lads more aware of how they can sell tickets as the day a boxer can just turn up with a kitbag , fight a nody and walk away with his cash telling everyone how great he is have gone - and yes I have been quilty of assisting that model , but no longer.

STEVE WOOD

Hi Steve, firstly it is good that you come on this forum and are listening to the "ordinary fan".

To be honest, you should know what the problem is - and if you didn't then it is clear from the comments on this thread what the problem is.

I have made comments and asked questions on previous VIP threads but have never received a reply - this is not me being a smart @rse or having a go, but it is just that you are the only promoter I have access to. The problem is endemic throughout boxing in this country, and something needs to change soon otherwise it will become an even more minority sport and will eventually become a side-show.

I admire you for what you do and also for coming on here. I hope that you listen to the comments and that making the necessary adjustments will be economically viable.

[Jeff Thomas]

I don't think Steve is 'guilty' of anything. It's the way the sport was- and was the most sensible way to do things (build and then go for the big chance at 13-0+) but the way it is now things need to change to get people interested again.

I think people need a story, they need a relationship with the fighters in some form. I'd like to get to a point where shows stop being about consistent winning and more about short term form. People need to understand the implications for the winner and loser of matches. I think with so many platforms of communication available to promoters they really are in a good position to tell people about their fighters and shows. I also think that this platform is the same thing that kills the sports live gates .... Why would i spend 45 mins driving to a show, give some scrote £5 so my car doesn't get smashed, to sit through five hours of watching some talented, well trained, dedicated pros beating up a load of guys whose goal is to get through the four or six rounds. It's painful viewing- and that's coming from a huge boxing fan. After a while people who are interested in a particular fighter just go online and check the results promising to go and watch them when they finally step up in class.

I can't imagine many fighters 'building' a fan base on these prospect vs tba cards.

Most of these lads who turn over are mixing in open class championships in the amateurs and then they suddenly box guys who did little in the ams and realise they are a level or two below and just shut up shop and throw the odd counter.

I think the board now would do very well to produce an official set of rankings to assist promoters and match makers.

I also think that whilst the boxers must work to sell themselves and tickets it's now time to make the promoters work a bit more for their money, I don't mean to say that promoters don't work hard but I don't think they spend their time on productive things- chasing tickets and tales obviously is a necessary thing for them to do- but I'd love promoters to start making their shows the selling point rather then just a certain boxer.

I don't want to give my ideas away too much here as a couple of promoters have nicked some of my ideas already with not credit given, but if you can sell ur show on the premise that people are going to have a good night with entertaining fights then they will sell. If these unlicensed shows can do it with largely untalented lads filling the bills- then surely quality boxing, on a quality event will sell itself.

Matchroom are doing this right now. They are simply going to get quality fighters and stack the card. Then it sells. And I think small hall promoters can do this too but they must generate interest and then work on retention. One idea I had which I'll give away is set dates to get the ball rolling with regards to building building that customer relationship.

So just using Liverpool olympia as an example. VIP put a show on there every second week of every other month - so what six weeks apart? People know the shows on- the boxers know the shows on and people can plan around that date. Saving money for the event, making plans etc.... You could link in with a nightclub- sponsorship.... And so on.

[bripez]

Most of these lads who turn over are mixing in open class championships in the amateurs and then they suddenly box guys who did little in the ams and realise they are a level or two below and just shut up shop and throw the odd counter.

That is the whole point - why not match them against each other ?

It is because the boxers/managers/promoters/public want to see an unbeaten kid.

This has created the current situation where those boxers who sign for a big promoter know who and when they will be boxing and will be well prepared. Their opponent on the other hand is employed as just an "opponent" - we have all seen journeymen who have gone against the script and got themselves a win or two, then what happens - they suddenly realise that the phone has stopped ringing.

[Jeff Thomas]

Most of these lads who turn over are mixing in open class championships in the amateurs and then they suddenly box guys who did little in the ams and realise they are a level or two below and just shut up shop and throw the odd counter.

That is the whole point - why not match them against each other ?

It is because the boxers/managers/promoters/public want to see an unbeaten kid.

This has created the current situation where those boxers who sign for a big promoter know who and when they will be boxing and will be well prepared. Their opponent on the other hand is employed as just an "opponent" - we have all seen journeymen who have gone against the script and got themselves a win or two, then what happens - they suddenly realise that the phone has stopped ringing.

Yep and that's what needs to be changed.

If you make the show the draw and not just the fighter the sport begins to move in the right direction

[LeedsLad]

The journeymen that bag a win or two are the ones who's phones should be smoking hot

Doesn't it take as much time to look after a world class prospect, a domestic level one and an area level one?

Might as well find out which is which.

If Ricky Hatton was in against the likes of Laight, Greaves, Coveney etc every week (no disrespect intended), it would read KO1, TKO2, RTD2.... as it actually did against the likes of Karl Taylor, Kid McAulay etc.

The better lads ought to be getting these boys out of there in style. The ones that can't either need more development or simply aren't all that.... or aren't motivated enough. Stick them in I say, let's see what they've got.

[Alba]

So what are peoples ideas on promoting fighters within there local community ,and to make fighters known ?

[mbudgen]

Some ideas and viewpoints are way off the mark here, great topic from jeff btw, a very intelligent bright man.

First of all boxers have to sell tickets simply because small hall promoters struggle to find the revenue to pay marketing companies or advertising in national newspapers etc. suggesting boxers shouldn't sell tickets is something I completely agree with but at the end of the day the sport is backed by very little tv money and is suffering even more with certain promoters getting all tv dates, therefore not even allowing smaller promoters to battle for a few extra dates.

With no tv money and working on such tight budgets and margins tickets have to be shifted by boxers, I know at GP we advertised all over Essex (for adams harrsion show) and were on front page of newspaper for a month and the reality was it did little to shift mounds of tickets. It's a difficult one that we would love to rectify at GP and GME and are n the case for doing so and helping boxers concentrate on simply boxing not selling tickets.

[Glass Joe]

Clevedon had a great turn out. All the seats had gone and they were still letting people in standing anywhere to watch the fights.

[phil5555]

Let's lay it on the table! There are no tv dates.... There is no longer the requirement for fighters to built shitty unbeaten records. Fans are wiser, journeyman unfortunately for them will cease to be as required. We can start having a competitive sport again. This is a chance for boxing to move away from the mess created by the stupid requirement for inflated paper mâché records.


But show attenendence is sparse at best, for shows to go on what needs to change? What ideas would you suggest to get bums in seats....

The attendance at the Olympia last night was shocking. As it was at kelvin hall the other night.

Its because British boxing "promoters" dont know how to promote.

Stadium light show 15th July none tv show 2000 tickets gone