Rank these guys on achievements...

[Ezzard]

if you can...

Manny Pac
Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
Michael Spinks
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Azumah Nelson
Bernard Hopkins
Erik Morales
Floyd Mayweather
James Toney
Roy Jones
Jeff Fenech

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Very difficult batch after the first two.

Leonard
Whitaker
Hearns
Hagler
Hopkins
Mayweather
Pacquiao
Jones
Spinks
Morales
Marquez
Barrera
Chavez
Nelson
Toney
Fenech

[Alan Partridge]

Leonard
Pacquiao
Whitaker
Hearns
Hagler
Mayweather
Chavez
Jones
Spinks
Morales
Marquez
Barrera
Nelson
Toney
Hopkins
Fenech

[HomicideHenry]

if you can...

Manny Pac
Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
Michael Spinks
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Azumah Nelson
Bernard Hopkins
Erik Morales
Floyd Mayweather
James Toney
Roy Jones
Jeff Fenech

#1- Pernell Whitaker (simply the best defensive fighter of my life time)

#2- Julio Cesar Chavez (simply the best offensive fighter of my life time)

#3- Bernard Hopkins (the Archie Moore of my life time without doubt)

#4- James Toney (from 154-200, he was a champ in all)

#5- Ray Leonard (saw the later years, but his staying power was remarkable)

#6- Floyd Mayweather (yep I finally got converted, who can touch this guy?)

#7- Juan Manuel Marquez (IMO (key words 'in my opinion') beat Pacman 3x's)

#8- Marvin Hagler (beat Leonard, but that win over Duran is questionable)

#9- Manny Pacquia (from 106-154 this man brought boxing back from comatose)

#10- Roy Jones (mainly for the charisma and television boost whenever he fought though I am convinced if Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Gene Tunney were in his era he would have dodged them all)

Everyone else on that list, meh, shake em up and they are all the same.

[HomicideHenry]

AND YES I AM AWARE MY COMMENTS WILL TRIGGER SOME DEBATE so before calling me a moron and the like, just remember its only one man's opinion

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Your list is too disgraceful for debate.

[HomicideHenry]

What cus I didnt have the great Sugar Ray as #1?

Look Leonard was an amaziiiiiiiiing fighter, but to me he didn't beat Marvelous Marvin, he sure as hell didn't beat Thomas Hearns in the rematch, he lost to Duran in the first bout. Yes he was a superstar and carried the sport after Ali finally was out of the picture. But to me his contributions were more mainstreaming the sport, than being the absolute best of that list. I dont think Leonard could have ever touched Sweet Pea, and I am not sure he could have held off Chavez to of been effective.

As for everyone else on that list; Hopkins is without question at top ten middleweight champion, and his longetivity and success at 175 is nothing short of remarkable. How can you argue against it? Toney had alot of ups and downs, but when he brought his A game there was very few who could hit him clean and let alone beat him and he did it over six weight divisions. Marvelous Marvin was in an inbetween era of greatness and mediocrity, but he did what he had to do and was simply Marvelous when doing it.

Mayweather, I have yet seen the last few opponents he has fought hit him with more than two or three clean punches a round; outside of Pacquia or Martinez I cant think of anyone from 135-160 who could remotely challenge him. Pacquia was robbed against Bradley, yes, but I wont go into hero worship of him; eight divisions he has fought and most were conquered, but lets be honest here outside of Bradley, Marquez and Cotto most of the men he has fought as of late were lambs led to slaughter.

As for the men I did not rank, what I say is true to a point, they are good fighters who were in tremendously great fights; but they were not great fighters.... If I had to pick but one of those I did not rank to make one exception for it would be Morales, and because his comeback has been nothing short of remarkable.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I hate leonard more than any fighter who has ever lived, him that low is just the tip of the iceberg for how poor your list is. Like I said, not worth debating.

Hearns wasn't great?

Everyone listed was a great fighter, your explanation is as bad as your list.

Toney wasn't a champ at 54 or 75 and Hagler handily beat Duran.

[HomicideHenry]

fornicate I overlooked Hearns ermmm....


#1- Pernell Whitaker (simply the best defensive fighter of my life time)

#2- Julio Cesar Chavez (simply the best offensive fighter of my life time)

#3- Bernard Hopkins (the Archie Moore of my life time without doubt)

#4- James Toney (from 154-200, he was a champ in all)

#5- Ray Leonard (saw the later years, but his staying power was remarkable)

#6- Floyd Mayweather (yep I finally got converted, who can touch this guy?)

#7- Juan Manuel Marquez (IMO (key words 'in my opinion') beat Pacman 3x's)

#8- Marvin Hagler (beat Leonard, but that win over Duran is questionable)

#9- Manny Pacquia (from 106-154 this man brought boxing back from comatose)

#10- Thomas Hearns (at 147 was arguably the most powerful puncher of all time)

#11- Roy Jones (mainly for the charisma and television boost whenever he fought though I am convinced if Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Gene Tunney were in his era he would have dodged them all)

Everyone else on that list, meh, shake em up and they are all the same.

[HomicideHenry]

And..... true @ Toney but he he a name player in most those divisions, if not a champion at one point or another.... as for Duran/Hagler, The Hands of Stone was leading after 13 rounds.... how on Earth Hagler could tip the decision by two rounds is beyond me

[SaadOffTheDeck]

And..... true @ Toney but he he a name player in most those divisions, if not a champion at one point or another.... as for Duran/Hagler, The Hands of Stone was leading after 13 rounds.... how on Earth Hagler could tip the decision by two rounds is beyond me

He was ahead on the judges cards after 12, then he lost the last 3 definitively. The actual fight wasn't that close.

Toney never had a fight at 154, not one. At 175, he was disinterested and never threatened much past the Griffin fights.

It's a difficult grouping, many of the fighters are interchangeable, but they are all great. Frankly, your comments expose a frightful lack of knowledge.

[Goodnight, Irene]

How the fvck does Mayweather outstrip Pacquiao on achievements!?

[HomicideHenry]

And..... true @ Toney but he he a name player in most those divisions, if not a champion at one point or another.... as for Duran/Hagler, The Hands of Stone was leading after 13 rounds.... how on Earth Hagler could tip the decision by two rounds is beyond me

He was ahead on the judges cards after 12, then he lost the last 3 definitively. The actual fight wasn't that close.

Toney never had a fight at 154, not one. At 175, he was disinterested and never threatened much past the Griffin fights.

We should do a DURAN/HAGLER score card thread

And true, but to start out at middleweight'ish and end up being a top heavyweight contender is reminescent to the days of Conn and Walker.

[HomicideHenry]

How the fvck does Mayweather outstrip Pacquiao on achievements!?

The "O" is a mightily impressive thing, that and the fact that Pacquia's fought wars while Mayweather makes everybody he fights look like amateurs. And that imo is more an achievement than tinker toy belts like the one Pacman won at 154 against Cotto's favorite punching bag.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

And..... true @ Toney but he he a name player in most those divisions, if not a champion at one point or another.... as for Duran/Hagler, The Hands of Stone was leading after 13 rounds.... how on Earth Hagler could tip the decision by two rounds is beyond me

He was ahead on the judges cards after 12, then he lost the last 3 definitively. The actual fight wasn't that close.

Toney never had a fight at 154, not one. At 175, he was disinterested and never threatened much past the Griffin fights.

We should do a DURAN/HAGLER score card thread

And true, but to start out at middleweight'ish and end up being a top heavyweight contender is reminescent to the days of Conn and Walker.

I don't think Walker and Conn abused steroids to gain weight and trudge along in a miserable division. James was great, no way in hell he was greater than the guys you have below him. Roy covered the same weight classes and shut Toney out in the ring.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

How the fvck does Mayweather outstrip Pacquiao on achievements!?

I consider them to be on par, I gave Floyd the nod for not using catch weights to diminish opponents and I think he is more talented. No issue with it the other way around and I might actually have both of them over Hopkins if I really went through it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

How the fvck does Mayweather outstrip Pacquiao on achievements!?

The "O" is a mightily impressive thing, that and the fact that Pacquia's fought wars while Mayweather makes everybody he fights look like amateurs. And that imo is more an achievement than tinker toy belts like the one Pacman won at 154 against Cotto's favorite punching bag.

I guess I can only disagree with every word and move on.

[HomicideHenry]

Jones imho was the most overated fighter of my life time. He fought a part time police officer for crying out loud in a world title defense. And beating Ruiz was no achievement, not when middleweights and welterweights for a hundred years have done the same damn thing against top five caliber heavyweights who would have kayoed Ruiz without breaking a sweat.

[Goodnight, Irene]

That I can agree with.

Classic fighter, who blew a large chunk of his legacy...just like Mayweather.

Would love to see Floyd follow in Roy's path just a little longer...D

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That I can agree with.

Classic fighter, who blew a large chunk of his legacy...just like Mayweather.

Would love to see Floyd follow in Roy's path just a little longer...D

Overrated compared to Toney? Who Hank ranks over Leonard? Jones has the biggest holes in a resume of any great fighter I can think of, but he was undoubtedly better than Toney in every way.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He was.

I just found Mayweather over Pacquiao particularly egregious, although in saying that, I couldnt be assed to come up with my own order, so I shouldnt be hugely critical.

[HomicideHenry]

Like I said gentlement its just one man's opinion, and I will be honest some of these men I rank more highly than others because I liked them as a fan and am seeing them through rose colored glasses. Trust me I could have been less generous to guys like Leonard and Jones, cus I hate them.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He was.

I just found Mayweather over Pacquiao particularly egregious, although in saying that, I couldnt be assed to come up with my own order, so I shouldnt be hugely critical.

It's a grueling grouping of guys that can be placed from 20-75 all time, after Leonard & whitaker who I would consider to be the clear top 2 here and Fenech who is a pretty obvious last.