James J Braddock VS Floyd Patterson

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:03

Braddock won the Baer fight easily??!?? Are you nuts? I know your obsessed with Braddock but please! Get a complete copy of that fight and watch it again. That fight was razor close and nobody knew who won when the decision was announced. I dont know if the scorecards reflect this but the action in the ring is close. Thats what is so pathetic about mythos grown up around Braddock. Its not like he pulled a Douglas and DOMINATED and KOd the man most people thought was invincible and would reign for another 10 years. He beat an unfocused guy who had all the natural gifts and none of the dedication on a night when the champ couldnt care less and thought he had a walkover. Whats rarely said, but should be remembered, is that half a dozen guys, maybe more, could have pulled off that feat on that night. Braddock was just lucky enough to be in the ring at that time otherwise wed remember him about as much as we do men like Corn Griffin and some of the other also rans of that era.

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:04

most of the time that is.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:09

klompton wrote:Braddock won the Baer fight easily??!?? Are you nuts? I know your obsessed with Braddock but please! Get a complete copy of that fight and watch it again. That fight was razor close and nobody knew who won when the decision was announced. I dont know if the scorecards reflect this but the action in the ring is close. Thats what is so pathetic about mythos grown up around Braddock. Its not like he pulled a Douglas and DOMINATED and KOd the man most people thought was invincible and would reign for another 10 years. He beat an unfocused guy who had all the natural gifts and none of the dedication on a night when the champ couldnt care less and thought he had a walkover. Whats rarely said, but should be remembered, is that half a dozen guys, maybe more, could have pulled off that feat on that night. Braddock was just lucky enough to be in the ring at that time otherwise wed remember him about as much as we do men like Corn Griffin and some of the other also rans of that era.

JUDGES HAD IT 7-7 11-4 AND 9-5... 11-4 THATS NOT CLOSE AT ALLLLLL... AND 9-5 ISNT SO CLOSE EITHER.. AND I HAVE SEEN WHAT IS AVAILABLE ON THE FIGHT.

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:10

I totally agree Klompton. Braddock has been overblown to the point of a hall of fame induction! It's the equvilent of Don Larson being inducted into baseball hall of fame for the world series perfect game.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:12

klompton wrote: Whats rarely said, but should be remembered, is that half a dozen guys, maybe more, could have pulled off that feat on that night..

So a half a dozen guys or more at the time could have done what james j braddock did that night? u might have some unexplainable hatred for jjb which ive seen from you in the past but are you kidding me. that is one of the greatest upsets in the history of boxing and has been dubbed so by great boxing minds, but your gonna come in here and say that more then a dozen fighters coulda done that? IMo your moronic. i might have my obsession but it usually doesnt effect my decision unless its a close fight, but its not like i would have jjb beating any top 10 heavyweight of all time and i would rank jbb around 25 or 26 all time.

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:15

It is the greatest upset of all time next to Tyson/Douglas not because Baer was so great but that Braddock was so ordinary. thus the nickname cinderella man. I dont think Braddock would make the top 75 heavyweights of all time.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:16

theone wrote:I totally agree Klompton. Braddock has been overblown to the point of a hall of fame induction! It's the equvilent of Don Larson being inducted into baseball hall of fame for the world series perfect game.

he won a heavyweight championship belt from a great HOF fighter.... he beat future Hof fighters max baer and JH lewis.... squared off with joe louis and knocked him down. fought for the light heavyweight title of the world.. fought the great tommy loughran.. beat top contenders for light heavyweight asnd heavyweight division such as slattery lasky lewis corn griffin monte scouzza.... he pulled off what was at the time the greatest boxing upset of all time.. he beat a very good tommy farr..oh and he did alot of this after getting his ass kicked by the depression and suffering a broken hand for a few years. certainly both those played into it, seeing as how we never will know how good braddock could have been.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:18

theone wrote:It is the greatest upset of all time next to Tyson/Douglas not because Baer was so great but that Braddock was so ordinary. thus the nickname cinderella man. I dont think Braddock would make the top 75 heavyweights of all time.

top 75 heavyweights of all time? your a god damn idiot..obviously you read what klompton said (who is at least smart and knows what the hell hes talkig about) and decided that you knew everything about JJB and that hes a terrible fighter or what not... but u find me 1 intellegent mind on this sight that agrees that braddock is not a top 75 heavyweight, and i will never post about the guy again... he is easily top 50 ive seen him in top 25, i rank him 25-30 somewhere in between there and i dont beleive that is so much of a stretch.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:22

His fight with Farr was considered a horrible decision. Slattery was a drunk. Loughran made him look so stupid it isnt funny. Hes absolutely horrible in that fight. He scored a flash KD of Louis big deal, he also got used as a punching bag and bore the scars of it for the rest of his life for anyone to see. And as for the scoring of the Baer fight 7-7 is a lot more in line than the other judges. The fight was close and anyone with eyes not colored by a non-homosexual man-crush can see that and the fact that Braddock is simply not that good of a fighter.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:25

klompton wrote:He scored a flash KD of Louis big deal, he also got used as a punching bag and bore the scars of it for the rest of his life for anyone to see. .

how many fighters can say they have knocked him down..especially when he was that young... and how many people wouldnt have been used as punching bags for the great joe louis..? im still interested in hearing how moer then a half a dozen fighters at the time coulda upset max baer? im listening...

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:36

By showing up...

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:40

God damn idiot? Sheesh, arent you taking this kind of personal Rory? For the record, my thought are my own and ive been following and studying the sport for over 30 years and have an extensive libary of fight films.
What amazes me about this whole topic is the someone needing to take an already inspirational figure like Braddock and trying to make him more than he was.
If Braddock was as good a you say, a top 25 fighter of all time then his story wouldnt be so amazing after all. Any top 25 rated heavyweight has a good shot at defeating Baez, and it shouldnt be considered such an upset.
By overhyping the man, your taking away the only reason we are still talking about him now.
p.s. i doubt if braddock was one of the best 20 heavyweights of the 30's.

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:41

Baer not Baez. Sorry

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:46

i never said he was top 25

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:49

i am not overhyping and ruining braddock because i woud rank him 25-30 on my list of heavyweights.. and im not ruining braddock because i think he has a legit shot of beating floyd patterson.... you on the other hand seem to think that JJB was some bum who decided he would show up and fight max baer one day and that would be it too him... read the books..go see the movie... read some articles.. braddock was a good fighter..and i would like to see the list of the 20 or more heavyweights of the 30's that were better then braddock.

and klompton i wanna your your list or half a dozen or more fighters doing what he did at the time.

since when did max baer become a pushover?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Sep 2005, 22:56

Give em hell Rory. One thing I know is Braddock or Patterson could take Baez, Bout all Joan could do is fight em off with that folk guitar of hers.

theone · Post by **theone** » 16 Sep 2005, 23:38

I never said Baer was a push over. He may be one of the top 25 heavies of all time; so if Braddock is also, then whats the big deal? By the way, all of the fighters below fought in the 30's and were better than Braddock.

Joe Louis
Max Baer-still better, eventhough he was upset that night.
Tommy Farr- was robbed
Palolino Uzcudun
max schmeling
Jack sharkey
bob Pastor
tony Galento
Abe Simon
Arturo Godoy
Lou Nova
Nathan Mann
Buddy Baer
Primo Carnera
Young stribling
Lee savold
Al Mccoy
Lem Franklin
tuffy Griffith
Ernie Shaaf

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 17 Sep 2005, 00:56

On that night:

Max Schmeling (the guy Braddock wouldnt defend his title against)
Primo Carnera
Tommy Farr
Johnny Risko
Tony Galento
Jack Peterson
Larry Gains
Len Harvey
Walter Neusel
Paolino Uzcudan
King Levinsky among others that could have accomplished what Braddock did that not ON that night.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 17 Sep 2005, 02:43

schmeling and farr would have had a fair shot.i don't think the likes of harvey would have done myself.can't see carnera either he'd still be remembering the first fight.
don't forget that baer was a feared fighter.a lot of fighters would have gone in thinking they were gonna lose.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 17 Sep 2005, 07:17

Ok "theone" your stinking up the joint if your saying Carnera is superior to Braddock. Somebody turn on the exhaust fan and get a can of Lysol.

theone · Post by **theone** » 17 Sep 2005, 07:25

He knocked out Sharkey and beat Lougran who easily beat Braddock.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 17 Sep 2005, 07:33

It is often difficult to be sure just what Carnera accomplished due to his "little friends" however I am convinced he KO'd Sharkey, but may have won that fight on an surly agreement if he had not produced the KO.

Still anyway you slice it I would not be in agreement that Carnera had anywhere near the skills of Braddock and Braddock would just take him to school. NO contest.

He wouldnt produce the same kind of fireworks Baer did for sure but he would be just as dominating only with finesse instead of power. Braddock is neither a superman nor a bum. Part of his bad luck story seems to be perceptions. He continues to be underestimated.

theone · Post by **theone** » 17 Sep 2005, 08:36

I dont think putting Canera over Braddock is any kind of stretch at all. beisdes upseting Baer all of Braddocks most impressive wins were against light heavy weights. His victory over Corn Griffith is sooo overrated. Griffith had only fought 11 times when he fought Braddock. john Henry Lewis was a soon to be light heavyweight great and Lasky an okay fighter was in the middle of a five fight winless streak when Braddock beat him.
Caneras win over some quality fighters like Paulino Uzcudun and Tommy Lougran (one of many Braddock conquerors) were never suspect, and his win over Sharkey overtime has been excepted as legit. Canara would have just used his size and strenght to club out a descision win against Braddock.
Now im not saying Canera was good. He was at best, like Braddock a mediocre fighter who had some good moments. In a battle between to such fighters I'll take the bigger mediocre fighter.

theone · Post by **theone** » 17 Sep 2005, 08:42

I stupidly said,

his win over Sharkey overtime has been excepted as legit

I beg your pardon, Accepted not excepted. I think im punch drunk just talking about Canera.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 17 Sep 2005, 09:44

Ok T1 your calling Carnera over Braddock, diversity of opinions are always welcome. However based on that call I'm seein the need for another can of Lysol and a bigger fan.