Charles Freeman aka"The American Giant"

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 16 Mar 2006, 18:35

Anyone know what became of him?
Repots vary as to his actual height
(said to be bewtween 6 feet 10 and one half inches tall to seven feet six inches tall.
He fought William Perry aka The Tipton Slasher in Sawbridgeworth
December 14. 1842.
Reportly Charles Freeman died from consumption(tuberculosis)
in England.
I was wondering if his body was taken by a Medical College or museum,which were real interested in giants back then.
BTW Why doesnt there appear to be a ring record of his bouts at boxrec?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Mar 2006, 17:49

Charles Freeman fought in the bare-knuckle era, so his fighst were under the London Prize Ring rules---which BoxRec.com don't count, cus they only account for bouts under the Marquis of Queensbury.

Charles Freeman fought British Heavyweight champs Ben Caunt and William Perry, Caunt was also a big man for the time, but nowhere as big as Freeman.

I could never find his record, but only his name in a few other fighters records---I too heard of his height being anywhere from 6'10" to 7'3", never heard of him being 7'6".

He was 6'10", this I know for sure, when he fought in the USA, as did he when he fought Caunt and Perry. His latter years, he supposedly grew to 7'3" as well, but this could be no more than exaggeration, for the average height of a full grown man was no more than 5'8", only a handful of people in the United States were 6' tall or more.

Wish there was more written about him, for he was undefeated I believe and was quite an imposing figure, and from what I heard could soundly outbox even skillful fighters.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 18 Mar 2006, 16:04

Why doesnt someone compile the bouts of the bare knuckle era?
No doubt many bare knuckle fighters later fought under the Marquis of Qeensbury rules.
It would help to understand the era and development better in my opinion.

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 18 Mar 2006, 17:22

The Sept. 1931 THE RING magazine had an article on Freeman:
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/R ... ember_1931

Information from that article has today been put in a newly-created Freeman page in the Wikipedia:
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Charley_Freeman

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 18 Mar 2006, 19:17

Wow, that is far more information I have ever seen on Freeman.

Makes me wonder about other giant sized Heavyweights as well, like Jim Culley (wrestler/boxer from Ireland), Gogea Mitu, and John Rankin who were all 7'4".

All I could ever find on them is their boxing records.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 25 Mar 2006, 20:34

I read somewhere where Andre the Giant was actually around 6 feet 11 inches9and not seven feet five)
he was real athletic when he was a teenager and in his early 20's.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 26 Mar 2006, 02:03

From what I heard he was 7' tall when he left for Paris, France when he first became a professional wrestler---but never grew past that height, but only became a victim of acromegaly, which occurs in gigantism, after an adult has reached physical maturity---and rather than have the bones lengthen they thicken, thus resulting in large feet, hands and an elongated face.

Of course before he starred in the film CONAN THE DESTROYER, along side Wilt Chamberlain, he had back surgery and that could have made him 6'11" because Chamberlain was a little over 7'1", not quite 7'2", and he was slightly taller than Andre The Giant.

Also, if you notice in the movie THE PRINCESS BRIDE, actor who played Wesley, the main character, is 6'5" himself and was not much shorter than Andre---but of course, this was after his back surgery as well.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 07 Apr 2006, 12:08

Supposedly Andre was roughly 6'10". Wilt claimed he was 7'1 1/16" Heh

http://img521. .us/img521/7852 ... ilt1vh.jpg

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 25 Nov 2006, 16:35

Andre looks about to be an even seven feet tall in this photograph.
I seem to rember Wilt Chamberlain mentioning in his 1973 autobiography that he(Wilt) measured seven feet one inch lying down.
I would be surprised if that was a real low estimate.
I think Wilt Chamerlain may have been concious about his height.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 25 Nov 2006, 16:37

I think I had a similiar look on my face in one photograph of myself.
Except I was standing between two strippers with really big bazooms!!!

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » 26 Nov 2006, 16:39

Nice physique,Ah-nold.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 28 Apr 2012, 03:32

I finally found out what became of Charles Freeman after he went to England in 1842.
He contracted tuberculosis around 1844 and died October 1845.
here is his obit as it appeared in some periodicals of 1845.
http://books.google.com/books?id=N9fis- ... g=PA649&dq

here is a published scientic paper from 1846,by a physcian who had used Freeman as a test subject
on his study of the capacity of the lungs.
pp219-220.

http://books.google.com/books?id=K7IRAA ... g=PA219&dq

In November 1842 he was measured by a physician asbeing 6 ft 11 and one-fourth inches tall.
His fighting weight was 299 lbs and he had a 47 inch chest circumference.
Shortly before he passed away at the Winchester Hospital in England,
he had wasted away from consumption down to only 6 ft 7 and one-half inches tall,
and weighed only 141 lbs.

and here is a photograph of Charles Freeman(sort of).

http://www.books.google.com/books?id=ag ... g=PA171&dq

(thats Charles Freeman to the left)

Boilermaker · Post by **Boilermaker** » 29 Apr 2012, 00:49

Excellent thread, and i will look through this very quickly.

The facts of this article are presumably not too reliable but interesting nonetheless. This one has him at 8 ft and still growing, at one stage.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... rchLimits=

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Apr 2012, 02:12

Here is some additional evidence that the skeleton on display at the Royal College of Surgeons in England
is that of Charles Freeman.
Osteological Catalogue of the Museum of the Royal College of Surgeons of England.(1879)
page 25.
(RCS specimen no. 224)

http://books.google.com/books?id=rZ0aAA ... pg=PA25&dq

(for some reason the catalogue lists him as having died in 1854,instead of 1845,obviously a typo)
However I do not believe his true identity was really revealed until the late 1860's, according to the 1845 obit
Charles Freeman was buried in Winchester Cemetery by his friend and fellow pugilist Ben Caunt.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 24 May 2012, 21:02

I came across this paper that has 2 photographs of the skull of Charles Freeman
(Royal College of Surgeons specimen no.224)
This article appeared in the Transactions of the Pathology Society of London(1898)
'An acromegalic skull and the skull of a normal giant'.
(the acromegalic skull is that from an individual from Italy
and the skull of the normal giant is that of Charles Freeman)
scroll up to just below page 148 to see the photograph of the skull of Charles Freeman
(Plate V,figures 1 and 2)

http://www.books.google.com/books?id=uL ... g=PA191&dq

For a bare knuckled prize fighter ,he sure looked to have had a nice set of choppers.
His extreme height( 6 ft 11 and one-fourth inches tall)
must have been a really good defense.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 11 Jul 2012, 18:14

Brutu wrote:I came across this paper that has 2 photographs of the skull of Charles Freeman
(Royal College of Surgeons specimen no.224)
This article appeared in the Transactions of the Pathology Society of London(1898)
'An acromegalic skull and the skull of a normal giant'.
(the acromegalic skull is that from an individual from Italy
and the skull of the normal giant is that of Charles Freeman)
scroll up to just below page 148 to see the photograph of the skull of Charles Freeman
(Plate V,figures 1 and 2)

http://www.books.google.com/books?id=uL ... g=PA191&dq

For a bare knuckled prize fighter ,he sure looked to have had a nice set of choppers.
His extreme height( 6 ft 11 and one-fourth inches tall)
must have been a really good defense.

From what reports I have read, the pro contests he had were incredibly boring. However, a pro debut against the worlds best fighter and a rematch with the same man, is quite impressive. For all his strength and size, Freeman evidentially couldn't break an egg.

Fje79 · Post by **Fje79** » 20 Jul 2012, 21:57

Brutu wrote:Why doesnt someone compile the bouts of the bare knuckle era?
No doubt many bare knuckle fighters later fought under the Marquis of Qeensbury rules.
It would help to understand the era and development better in my opinion.

Has anyone tried to compile such a thing? Is there somewhere to look up a list of boxers from the bare knuckle era and their records?

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 21 Jul 2012, 03:31

Fje79 wrote:Has anyone tried to compile such a thing? Is there somewhere to look up a list of boxers from the bare knuckle era and their records?

http://archive.org/details/fistianaororacl00dowlgoog
Frank Lewis Dowling - Fistiana: Or, The Oracle of the Ring (1841)
Although containing a lot of errors.

Fje79 · Post by **Fje79** » 21 Jul 2012, 10:36

Senya13 wrote:
Fje79 wrote:Has anyone tried to compile such a thing? Is there somewhere to look up a list of boxers from the bare knuckle era and their records?
http://archive.org/details/fistianaororacl00dowlgoog
Frank Lewis Dowling - Fistiana: Or, The Oracle of the Ring (1841)
Although containing a lot of errors.

Thanks for the link... it seems, though, that there would still be a large gap from 1841 to the Sullivan/Kilrain fight.

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 21 Jul 2012, 12:24

CBZ has the records of English bareknuckle champions - http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/barenuk.htm and American champions - http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/bare-am.htm

AngryGoon38 · Post by **AngryGoon38** » 21 Jul 2012, 13:45

Brutu wrote:I finally found out what became of Charles Freeman after he went to England in 1842.
He contracted tuberculosis around 1844 and died October 1845.
here is his obit as it appeared in some periodicals of 1845.
http://books.google.com/books?id=N9fis- ... g=PA649&dq

here is a published scientic paper from 1846,by a physcian who had used Freeman as a test subject
on his study of the capacity of the lungs.
pp219-220.

http://books.google.com/books?id=K7IRAA ... g=PA219&dq

In November 1842 he was measured by a physician asbeing 6 ft 11 and one-fourth inches tall.
His fighting weight was 299 lbs and he had a 47 inch chest circumference.
Shortly before he passed away at the Winchester Hospital in England,
he had wasted away from consumption down to only 6 ft 7 and one-half inches tall,
and weighed only 141 lbs.

and here is a photograph of Charles Freeman(sort of).

http://www.books.google.com/books?id=ag ... g=PA171&dq

(thats Charles Freeman to the left)

Pnuemonia. Not Tuberculosis.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 06 Jun 2013, 23:37

here is a link to some updated info on Charles Freeman.

http://thetallestman.com/charlesfreeman.htm

zojo · Post by **zojo** » 08 Jun 2013, 14:00

Too bad basketball was not invented at that time.

DaveyMac · Post by **DaveyMac** » 25 May 2014, 19:31

great thread! I wish there was a photo of him from when he was alive.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 25 May 2014, 20:20

DaveyMac wrote:great thread! I wish there was a photo of him from when he was alive.

There is a couple of posters that survive, that are penciled drawings of him from the time period, or not long after he died. There is a picture of him in such fashion on a cover of the National Police Gazette, the premiere sports magazine of the era, alongside William Perry. He's depicted as having a big bushy mustache and wavy hair. Whether this is an accurate depiction of him or not, is really anyone's guess. The only way to possibly find an accurate portrait of him would of been in the Barnum Museum archives, but there was the famous fire. It could be possible, some relic of him exists still, and has yet to be shown public.

Charles Freeman aka"The American Giant"

Charles Freeman aka"The American Giant"

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