i absolutely do.
big bill wilson 6'3 229 lb
jerry jackson 6'4 254 lb
pat connely 6'5 213 lb
johnny skor 6'3 220lb
carmina vingo 6'4 190
sure these guys had some weight on them, but their utter mediocrity negated any advantage it would give them.
remember tyson is only 5'10 so height should be taken into considereation.
5'11 actually.
but why does size mean so much??? it doesnt.
It does actually. Thats why we have wieght classes. If two fighters are both are in the same skill level, then a size advantage would usually make the difference.
rocky probably was just as strong as tyson
you would have to be insane of or an obsessed Rocky fan to believe this.
Not only was he not as strong, but he was much slower and very prone to cuts. tyson would beat hi to a bloody pulp.
Prime Mike Tyson VS Prime Rocky Marciano
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Tyson didn't know how to fight out of a clinch, and Marciano was actually a pretty savvy guy when it came to that sort of basic fighting technique. The fact that he didn't box in the conventional sense doesn't mean he was a mindless soldier ant. Archie Moore said about him, "He's a hard man. He doesn't let you fight your fight!" Marciano was also much stronger than nearly any other man his size as Moore once against attested to, saying "Marciano is far and away the strongest man I've ever encountered. And believe me, I've met some tough ones." (those quotes can be found in Marciano's biographies for an immediate source) Moore was in with some very big heavyweights and some full-sized heavyweight contenders, like Nino Valdes(6'3", 210 pounds, a hard-hitting Cuban #1 contender who Moore beat to get the title shot at Marciano), Bob Baker(6'2", 210, another top heavyweight contender), and James J. Parker(6'3", 220-pound hard-hitting Canadian heavyweight contender), and according to Moore, the man who fought them all, Marciano was far stronger than any of them.
Anyway, I think it's extremely hard to believe Marciano would just be flattened in one or two rounds by anyone, period. Maybe if Tyson started fast and hard and maintained the upper-hand, he could knock Marciano around for a few rounds and stop him in four or five. I actually think guys like Walcott and Moore were more likely to catch Marciano flush early because of their caginess, experience, and great counterpunching. Tyson would be in the trenches with Marciano, meaning Rocky would be more in his element and would have a guy standing right with him just like he wanted, and vice versa. I think Tyson would have the advantage in the first few rounds comptetitively, perhaps scoring a knockdown early, but Marciano would take charge as the fight progressed and eventually put an exhausted, discouraged, bloodied Tyson down for the count in the later rounds.
both guys have enough power to seriously hurt or KO the other guy. Both guys would hurt the other guy. That's a given.
Now, Marciano tended to become a better fighter when he was hurt.
Mike Tyson tended to become a lesser fighter when hurt
Tyson has a limited heart and when he starts the lose and the pressure gets to him, he'll start giving up and getting lazy, dropping his hands and not fighting with his normal intensity he is used to with scared opponents. This is when Rocky starts to land heavy shots and Tyson drops.
and even if u wanna make an issue of size, u have no arguement as past his prime or not, tyson was beaten by a smaller hoylfield.
Anyway, I think it's extremely hard to believe Marciano would just be flattened in one or two rounds by anyone, period. Maybe if Tyson started fast and hard and maintained the upper-hand, he could knock Marciano around for a few rounds and stop him in four or five. I actually think guys like Walcott and Moore were more likely to catch Marciano flush early because of their caginess, experience, and great counterpunching. Tyson would be in the trenches with Marciano, meaning Rocky would be more in his element and would have a guy standing right with him just like he wanted, and vice versa. I think Tyson would have the advantage in the first few rounds comptetitively, perhaps scoring a knockdown early, but Marciano would take charge as the fight progressed and eventually put an exhausted, discouraged, bloodied Tyson down for the count in the later rounds.
both guys have enough power to seriously hurt or KO the other guy. Both guys would hurt the other guy. That's a given.
Now, Marciano tended to become a better fighter when he was hurt.
Mike Tyson tended to become a lesser fighter when hurt
Tyson has a limited heart and when he starts the lose and the pressure gets to him, he'll start giving up and getting lazy, dropping his hands and not fighting with his normal intensity he is used to with scared opponents. This is when Rocky starts to land heavy shots and Tyson drops.
and even if u wanna make an issue of size, u have no arguement as past his prime or not, tyson was beaten by a smaller hoylfield.
and even if u wanna make an issue of size, u have no arguement as past his prime or not, tyson was beaten by a smaller hoylfield.
holyfield was 215pds of solid muscle and had already been a ful fledge heavyweight for eight years.
How can you honestly envision rocky trading with tyson? Tyson had way faster hands and would outpunch Rocky 4 to 1. Ezzard Charles past his prime weighing only 189lbs. wet toe to toe with rocky for 15 rounds! in the second fight he was doing the same until rocky stopped him. Charles managed to split the rocks nose in half! How do you explain that away?
holyfield was 215pds of solid muscle and had already been a ful fledge heavyweight for eight years.
How can you honestly envision rocky trading with tyson? Tyson had way faster hands and would outpunch Rocky 4 to 1. Ezzard Charles past his prime weighing only 189lbs. wet toe to toe with rocky for 15 rounds! in the second fight he was doing the same until rocky stopped him. Charles managed to split the rocks nose in half! How do you explain that away?
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
actually the 2nd fight, charles was knocked out pretty easy. marciano won almost every round and knocked down charles in the 2nd, and besides a freakish cut, marciano dominated the rematch.
marciano was just as strong as holyfield if not stronger, did u read my last post?????????
jaclem interviewed charles and ezzard called rocky the strongest fighter hes ever faced. and ezzard fought a lot of big strong heavyweight far bigger than tyson.
The fact that he didn't box in the conventional sense doesn't mean he was a mindless soldier ant. Archie Moore said about him, "He's a hard man. He doesn't let you fight your fight!" Marciano was also much stronger than nearly any other man his size as Moore once against attested to, saying "Marciano is far and away the strongest man I've ever encountered. And believe me, I've met some tough ones." (those quotes can be found in Marciano's biographies for an immediate source) Moore was in with some very big heavyweights and some full-sized heavyweight contenders, like Nino Valdes(6'3", 210 pounds, a hard-hitting Cuban #1 contender who Moore beat to get the title shot at Marciano), Bob Baker(6'2", 210, another top heavyweight contender), and James J. Parker(6'3", 220-pound hard-hitting Canadian heavyweight contender), and according to Moore, the man who fought them all, Marciano was far stronger than any of them.
I actually think guys like Walcott and Moore were more likely to catch Marciano flush early because of their caginess, experience, and great counterpunching.
And let's face it, Rocky probably had more power than a lot of big heavyweights of modern era - infact I'm certain of it. It's quite complicated how velocity works, but it's not all about weight and strength (although Rocky was extremely strong), and more to do with arm length, speed of the hand and muscle fibres. I've seen him on his custom made 300lb bag, and I was VERY impressed.
marciano was just as strong as holyfield if not stronger, did u read my last post?????????
jaclem interviewed charles and ezzard called rocky the strongest fighter hes ever faced. and ezzard fought a lot of big strong heavyweight far bigger than tyson.
The fact that he didn't box in the conventional sense doesn't mean he was a mindless soldier ant. Archie Moore said about him, "He's a hard man. He doesn't let you fight your fight!" Marciano was also much stronger than nearly any other man his size as Moore once against attested to, saying "Marciano is far and away the strongest man I've ever encountered. And believe me, I've met some tough ones." (those quotes can be found in Marciano's biographies for an immediate source) Moore was in with some very big heavyweights and some full-sized heavyweight contenders, like Nino Valdes(6'3", 210 pounds, a hard-hitting Cuban #1 contender who Moore beat to get the title shot at Marciano), Bob Baker(6'2", 210, another top heavyweight contender), and James J. Parker(6'3", 220-pound hard-hitting Canadian heavyweight contender), and according to Moore, the man who fought them all, Marciano was far stronger than any of them.
I actually think guys like Walcott and Moore were more likely to catch Marciano flush early because of their caginess, experience, and great counterpunching.
And let's face it, Rocky probably had more power than a lot of big heavyweights of modern era - infact I'm certain of it. It's quite complicated how velocity works, but it's not all about weight and strength (although Rocky was extremely strong), and more to do with arm length, speed of the hand and muscle fibres. I've seen him on his custom made 300lb bag, and I was VERY impressed.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
actually the 2nd fight, charles was knocked out pretty easy. marciano won almost every round and knocked down charles in the 2nd, and besides a freakish cut, marciano dominated the rematch.
the rock almost got tko'd in the second fight fight becasue of the nose injury.
What is your take on the 1st fight? The one where Charles matched him punch for punch for much of the fight?
jaclem interviewed charles and ezzard called rocky the strongest fighter hes ever faced.
Of coarse he was. They never fought a fighter like tyson. There was no way those "big" heavyweights were as strong as tyson. Even if they were, they could not have been as fast or hit that hard. tyson would hit Rocky so fast and hard it would rip his face apart like toliet paper.
marciano was just as strong as holyfield if not stronger, did u read my last post?????????
How exaclty did you come to this conclusion? holyfeild was an intense weightlifter who trained with world champion bodybuilder Lee Haney.
the rock almost got tko'd in the second fight fight becasue of the nose injury.
What is your take on the 1st fight? The one where Charles matched him punch for punch for much of the fight?
jaclem interviewed charles and ezzard called rocky the strongest fighter hes ever faced.
Of coarse he was. They never fought a fighter like tyson. There was no way those "big" heavyweights were as strong as tyson. Even if they were, they could not have been as fast or hit that hard. tyson would hit Rocky so fast and hard it would rip his face apart like toliet paper.
marciano was just as strong as holyfield if not stronger, did u read my last post?????????
How exaclty did you come to this conclusion? holyfeild was an intense weightlifter who trained with world champion bodybuilder Lee Haney.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
charles didnt match him punch for punch. charles trained hard and had tons of speed and outboxed him in early rounds and then rocky turned the tide in mid rounds and started to get to charles with damaging blows, and then a hard punch to charles adams apple (legal) slowed charles down, marciano won every round 10-15 and outslugged charles all the way down the stretch.
marciano won a clear decision.
what makes u think he will take out rocky very fast when he cant take out pinklon thomas, bonecrusher, tillis, and others fast
marciano had very underating defense and hes not gonna come out their and just tear up rocky. rocky wil put way to much pressure on tyson who wont be able to fight marciano inside and marciano will be pushing tyson around. marciano pushed men around much bigger than tyson. marciano will land on tyson, marciano has one of the highest outputs of any heavyweight, he will land on tyson and i know tyson cant take his punches.
when tyson sees a similar version of hoylfield, except this guy hits alot harder, is much more aggresive, and much better stamina, and much more punch output, tyson will fold. marciano wont be intimidated at all by tyson. it will come down to who wants it more. both guys have enough power to seriously hurt or KO the other guy. Both guys would hurt the other guy. That's a given.
Now, Marciano tended to become a better fighter when he was hurt.
Mike Tyson tended to become a lesser fighter when hurt.
marciano won a clear decision.
what makes u think he will take out rocky very fast when he cant take out pinklon thomas, bonecrusher, tillis, and others fast
marciano had very underating defense and hes not gonna come out their and just tear up rocky. rocky wil put way to much pressure on tyson who wont be able to fight marciano inside and marciano will be pushing tyson around. marciano pushed men around much bigger than tyson. marciano will land on tyson, marciano has one of the highest outputs of any heavyweight, he will land on tyson and i know tyson cant take his punches.
when tyson sees a similar version of hoylfield, except this guy hits alot harder, is much more aggresive, and much better stamina, and much more punch output, tyson will fold. marciano wont be intimidated at all by tyson. it will come down to who wants it more. both guys have enough power to seriously hurt or KO the other guy. Both guys would hurt the other guy. That's a given.
Now, Marciano tended to become a better fighter when he was hurt.
Mike Tyson tended to become a lesser fighter when hurt.
Last edited by BrocktonBlockbuster49 on 19 Sep 2005, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
i already tried to educate u guys, but u failed to read my message and comment on my points because u had nothhing to say to them.
amazing how holyfield shows u how to beat mike tyson,
u dont think marciano who hits a lot harder than holyfield and is more aggresive will do the same to tyson if not much worse.
tyson will quit once marciano gets to him.
amazing how holyfield shows u how to beat mike tyson,
u dont think marciano who hits a lot harder than holyfield and is more aggresive will do the same to tyson if not much worse.
tyson will quit once marciano gets to him.
How can you educate anybody when your agruments lack reason and ignores logic?
Ive asked you this before and i'll ask you again, How did you surmise that Marciano is stronger than Holyfield? A man naturally bigger, who worked out extensively with weights? How do you know Marciano punched harder? you think it would have taken Tyson or holyfield that many punches to beat Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore? You really believe that Marciano could stand up to Tysons barrages, even though much smaller men dropped him and cut him severely? You can watch a tape of both fighter at their peak and honestly say that marciano could stand and trade with the much faster punching tyson?
Ive asked you this before and i'll ask you again, How did you surmise that Marciano is stronger than Holyfield? A man naturally bigger, who worked out extensively with weights? How do you know Marciano punched harder? you think it would have taken Tyson or holyfield that many punches to beat Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore? You really believe that Marciano could stand up to Tysons barrages, even though much smaller men dropped him and cut him severely? You can watch a tape of both fighter at their peak and honestly say that marciano could stand and trade with the much faster punching tyson?
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ringsider
- Heavyweight
Pinklon thomas was TKO-d in the 6-th.what makes u think he will take out rocky very fast when he cant take out pinklon thomas, bonecrusher, tillis, and others fast
Holyfield had speed in his corner.. more speed overall than Mike and Tyson was also very Rusty and failed to go to the body - lack of skill. Now Rocky was slow and not very mobile to maneuver away from the Mike train... TKO 1 or 3-rd. That era was very different .. if cruiser goes against heavy nowa days he have to have some superrior speed or skill to win .. I doubt that rocky could be champion in this division ..but your throwing him to beat Mike Tyson in his prime.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
u keeep bringing upo ezzard charles and archie moore, u forget marciano changed his style in his later days, becoming more of polished and better defeseively but in doing so he lost some of his power. he wasnt a slugger anymore after lastaraza II.
marciano had a lot more power than holyfield and just as much as tyson. marciano had many one punch Knockouts,
rex layne stood there and took bob satterfields best punches, then was knocked out cold by one marciano right hand. it was a punch that "sheered laynes front teeth off at the nubs".
- marciano one left hook sent 6'4 carmine vingo into a coma.
- marciano one right hand knocked out walcott cold, rematch needed one right hand again
- marciano in his early fights, basically all one punch knockouts. knockouted out huge guys like jerry jackson and johnny skorr with one punch.
- harry kid mathews was only knocked out once in his career, when marciano finished him off with 2 left hooks.
- marciano knocked down layne twice with rights, the first time he was saved by the bell
i could go on and on but i think i proved a point about power.
mike tyson wasnt the best infighter and couldnt fight out of a clinch, rocky would be beaitin the shit out of tyson inside and clubin away at him, and if gets that right home, its bye bye for tyson.
if holyfield can stay in there and knockout mike tyson, what makes u think marciano cant?????
marciano had a lot more power than holyfield and just as much as tyson. marciano had many one punch Knockouts,
rex layne stood there and took bob satterfields best punches, then was knocked out cold by one marciano right hand. it was a punch that "sheered laynes front teeth off at the nubs".
- marciano one left hook sent 6'4 carmine vingo into a coma.
- marciano one right hand knocked out walcott cold, rematch needed one right hand again
- marciano in his early fights, basically all one punch knockouts. knockouted out huge guys like jerry jackson and johnny skorr with one punch.
- harry kid mathews was only knocked out once in his career, when marciano finished him off with 2 left hooks.
- marciano knocked down layne twice with rights, the first time he was saved by the bell
i could go on and on but i think i proved a point about power.
mike tyson wasnt the best infighter and couldnt fight out of a clinch, rocky would be beaitin the shit out of tyson inside and clubin away at him, and if gets that right home, its bye bye for tyson.
if holyfield can stay in there and knockout mike tyson, what makes u think marciano cant?????
u keeep bringing upo ezzard charles and archie moore, u forget marciano changed his style in his later days, becoming more of polished and better defeseively but in doing so he lost some of his power. he wasnt a slugger anymore after lastaraza II.
Did you actually watch these fights? i have numerous times and all i saw rocky doing against Charles and Moore was slug, slug slug, until they could not take anymore punishment. he displayed no defensive skill whatsoever.
if holyfield can stay in there and knockout mike tyson, what makes u think marciano cant?????
Common sense. holyfield would have destroyed anyone Marciano had beaten worse than the rock did.
Did you actually watch these fights? i have numerous times and all i saw rocky doing against Charles and Moore was slug, slug slug, until they could not take anymore punishment. he displayed no defensive skill whatsoever.
if holyfield can stay in there and knockout mike tyson, what makes u think marciano cant?????
Common sense. holyfield would have destroyed anyone Marciano had beaten worse than the rock did.
tyson/marciano
Well now, "theone", you're comparing Holyfield in the mix. Maybe that would be a good thread - "Holyfield vs Marciano".
However big and strong Tyson was, Marciano's style would have Tyson charging in expecting to pummel this smaller man. Rocky's defense was, yes he could get hit, but he also rolled with alot of shots too. I think his style would have Tyson looming over him, thinking he could put him away early, and the Rock catching Tyson. Tyson did go to the body when younger - Rocky covered the body well. Tyson did throw combos to the head - Rocky threw combos as well.
I think in this particular fight, it would come down to who really wanted it more. I'd give that edge to Rocky Marciano. Because he always gave his heart out in his fights.
However big and strong Tyson was, Marciano's style would have Tyson charging in expecting to pummel this smaller man. Rocky's defense was, yes he could get hit, but he also rolled with alot of shots too. I think his style would have Tyson looming over him, thinking he could put him away early, and the Rock catching Tyson. Tyson did go to the body when younger - Rocky covered the body well. Tyson did throw combos to the head - Rocky threw combos as well.
I think in this particular fight, it would come down to who really wanted it more. I'd give that edge to Rocky Marciano. Because he always gave his heart out in his fights.
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ringsider
- Heavyweight
What a bunch of moronic people around here. This "Yes Rocky did get hit but rolled with the shots", thinking is absurd. In his prime nobody rolled with Mike Tyson's shots. They rolled onto their back and were counted out. Talk about rewriting and making up boxing history to suit your own fighter fantasy. 
this
Nobody Tyson faced could take shots like The Rock and keep punching. And if we're so "moronic", why do you stay around here instead of going to a site more suited to your style of "intelligent input" like Eastside boxing or Boxingmonger.com.ringsider wrote:What a bunch of moronic people around here. This "Yes Rocky did get hit but rolled with the shots", thinking is absurd. In his prime nobody rolled with Mike Tyson's shots. They rolled onto their back and were counted out. Talk about rewriting and making up boxing history to suit your own fighter fantasy.
And my fantasy would be seeing you sliding your vehicle under a gasoline truck. I'd flick my match as I walked by; thereby ridding the world of one less parasite.
What a bunch of moronic people around here. This "Yes Rocky did get hit but rolled with the shots", thinking is absurd. In his prime nobody rolled with Mike Tyson's shots. They rolled onto their back and were counted out. Talk about rewriting and making up boxing history to suit your own fighter fantasy.
Hey ringsider, the absurdity on this topic doesnt hold a candle to whats being written in the John L Sullivan against Modern fighters post. Check it out for a laugh.
Hey ringsider, the absurdity on this topic doesnt hold a candle to whats being written in the John L Sullivan against Modern fighters post. Check it out for a laugh.
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ringsider
- Heavyweight