Best combination Pro-Amateur Careers

[Ambling Alp]

Thought this might be fun.

Who had the best combination of pro and amatuer career?
A couple of ground rules:
1. Both amateur and pro careers count equally.
2. While the Olympics are obviously important, is not the only thing to consider for the amateur part. World Championships, Golden Gloves, AAU tournaments, etc. count as well.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Off the top of my head, and without being an expert on amateur laurels, I'll offer up Whitaker.

[Giancarlo]

Ray Leonard must be in with a shout.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Pea was much more accomplished as an Amateur, I'd give Ray the slight edge professionally.

[Giancarlo]

Pea was much more accomplished as an Amateur, I'd give Ray the slight edge professionally.

I think I'd agree. Both great fighters.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ironically they were both looked at as inferior to Olympic teammates that disappointed in the pro's.

[Giancarlo]

Ironically they were both looked at as inferior to Olympic teammates that disappointed in the pro's.

I remember in 1976 Howard Davis bagged the Val Barker trophy for the best boxer at the games, got some good TV paydays but looked a bit shaky on the way to getting his first title shot and a very rude awakening at the hands of an under-rated and motivated Jim Watt.

I seem to recall it being hard work for him after that though he came very close to upsetting the undefeated Edwin Rosario.

I read somewhere that he is doing OK now and passing on his knowledge to young fighters.

It's a tough game.

[Giancarlo]

imo, davis jr. was a very solid fighter. taking away the fact he didn't live up to his amateur hype; he still had a pretty successful career and turned in a lot of great performances. i really admire his style

We are comparing him to blokes who were amongst the very top pros of recent times, Barry.

In that company he falls a bit short, surely.

Apart from the Rosario fight, what are all these great performances you allude to?

[dajuggernaut]

Mayweather and Ali deserve a mention.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ironically they were both looked at as inferior to Olympic teammates that disappointed in the pro's.

I remember in 1976 Howard Davis bagged the Val Barker trophy for the best boxer at the games, got some good TV paydays but looked a bit shaky on the way to getting his first title shot and a very rude awakening at the hands of an under-rated and motivated Jim Watt.

I seem to recall it being hard work for him after that though he came very close to upsetting the undefeated Edwin Rosario.

I read somewhere that he is doing OK now and passing on his knowledge to young fighters.

It's a tough game.

A girl that worked for me in Florida was dating his son and got me an autograph and I briefly met him. He is doing well and running a gym.

He looked solid heading into the Watt fight,Vilomar Fernandez & maurice Watkins were good fighters, but agreed that he froze a bit under the pressure and against an underrated champion. The last second KD loss to Rosario was heartbreaking for me, I was a huge fan.

[orbtastic]

Curry?

[Counter-puncher]

Curry?

duh, i knew there was a good answer i had lurking back there somewhere.....

[orbtastic]

Some will say he was a failure as a pro but to me, he did "better" than the likes of Breland et al.

[The Great John L]

Mike Spinks

[Expug]

Goin back a few years. Fidel Labarba

[scallum]

Ward may become a part of this topic soon

[giacomino]

I know a lot of folks on here don't like him, but DeLaHoya, for all his flaws, had a pretty good combination career. Not as good as Pea (whom I think he beat) Ali and or Sugar Ray, but pretty good.

[Ketchel]

Joel Casamayor has to have a shout.

[Ambling Alp]

Goin back a few years. Fidel Labarba

That is a good pick.
Have to consider Ray Robinson. He had a great amateur career and of course a great pro career as well.
A few others worth mentioning:

Joe Louis
Pascual Perez
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Nino Benvenuti
Thomas Hearns
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis.

[Expug]

Goin back a few years. Fidel Labarba

That is a good pick.
Have to consider Ray Robinson. He had a great amateur career and of course a great pro career as well.
A few others worth mentioning:

Joe Louis
Pascual Perez
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Nino Benvenuti
Thomas Hearns
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis.

Was Ray undefeated in the am's Alp? I seem to recall that. Not sure though.I think he may have fought there at 135 pounds too. He was probably unstopable.

[AngryGoon38]

Aaron Pryor

Ray Mercer

Duane Bobick

[scallum]

Did Sugar Ray defeat Pep as Amatuers?

[Ambling Alp]

Goin back a few years. Fidel Labarba

That is a good pick.
Have to consider Ray Robinson. He had a great amateur career and of course a great pro career as well.
A few others worth mentioning:

Joe Louis
Pascual Perez
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Nino Benvenuti
Thomas Hearns
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis.

Was Ray undefeated in the am's Alp? I seem to recall that. Not sure though.I think he may have fought there at 135 pounds too. He was probably unstopable.

I think robinson was undefeated as an amateur. I have seen that mentioned in passing in a couple of places. I have read a some biographies on him that goes inio a some detail regarding his amateur career and doesn't list any losses, though I don't tink they specifically say that he as undefeated.

He fought at featerweight and then moved up to lightweight towards the end of his amteur career. He won the New York Golden Gloves title at featherweight in 1939 and the lightweight title in 1940. (Though I have seen at least one source say it was the featherweight not the light weight tile that he won in 1940.)

The New York Golden Gloves were a big deal back then. They would pack in 20,000 in Madison Square Garden for it.

I am guessing that he never entered the National Golden Gloves tournament; at least I have never seen any mention of it.

-As for scallums question about robinson and Pep:It is doubtful that they ever fought.
First, I have never seen any mention of that and I have seen mention of many amateurs that Robinson did fight. You would think that Pep would have been mentioned had they fought.
Secondly, Robinson fought most of amateur fights in New York while Pep was based in Connecticut.
Lastly, Pep was smaller. He won the Connecticut Golden Gloves as a bantamweight.

[Expug]

Thanks Alp. The Golden Gloves in NY and here in Chicago were huge and prestigous even through the seventies. Chicago champs used to fight the NY champs every year too. I wonder if they had that back then and if Ray fought a Chicago champ...used to call the event the inter city Golden Gloves championships.

[Giancarlo]

I thought it was now generally agreed that Robinson had two losses in the amateurs.

Buzz, put your junior historian hat on and check this out for us.