Boxers who weren't great when you met them...

[thepocketrocket]

I think Lennox thinks he is better than he actually was. He is most famous for beating Holyfield and Tyson when they were pretty much past it (Tyson was a walking corpse), plus losing to Oliver Mcall and Haseem Rachman. Yes, there are always excuses like 'oh, he wasn't properly fit'. Hard shit, you wouldn't have seen the greats of the sport getting knocked out by guys like these.

We always had to put up with people saying that Lennox wasn't popular because he was Canadian, or because he was black. No, Lennox always came across as arrogant, and not in a funny, tongue in cheek way.

Lewis cleared out his division. He isn’t to blame for the fact he came on later than others and should be given credit for not going to prison, losing his form in his early-20s and for not having countless wars with lesser men, as Holyfield did. If a guy was leagues below Lewis he tended to brutally chin him. Lewis is punished for things we generally praise a fighter for and why is this, because he’s aloof and confident, call the cops. So what if his passport said Canada, his heart was Jamaican and his media savvy side was British.

Plus Lewis legitimately beat a guy who went on to become one of the world’s number one and the people who cream over Vitali should bear in mind that Lewis ripped his face up and TKO’d him.

Merchant may have purposefully and erroneously labelled the TKO win as “controversial”, but it was a clean win. Lederman summed it up best when explaining why he couldn’t take to Lewis, he said: “Lewis often ignores you, but Wlad and Vitali will happily stop and talk to you on the corridors.” That tells us more about Harold, and the men who take to the mic, than it does about Lewis. Lennox brought in good figures for HBO in his latter career and some decent fights, Wlad and Vitali don’t, but at least they’ll do a stop and chat next time they get on the network, eh?

His longevity always stands him in good stead, but cleaning up old men and over hyped guys like Grant and Tua doesn't make him a top six heavy of all time.

Credit him with having the intelligence to get out when he did, he knew Vitali was only going to get better with proper notice and he was only going to get older. Fighters are judged harshly for the defeats they have when they shouldn't even be fighting any more....Lennox got out of Dodge at the right time.

And there is no excuse for being a dick

[danconnollyeire]

I think Lennox thinks he is better than he actually was. He is most famous for beating Holyfield and Tyson when they were pretty much past it (Tyson was a walking corpse), plus losing to Oliver Mcall and Haseem Rachman. Yes, there are always excuses like 'oh, he wasn't properly fit'. Hard shit, you wouldn't have seen the greats of the sport getting knocked out by guys like these.

We always had to put up with people saying that Lennox wasn't popular because he was Canadian, or because he was black. No, Lennox always came across as arrogant, and not in a funny, tongue in cheek way.

Lewis cleared out his division. He isn’t to blame for the fact he came on later than others and should be given credit for not going to prison, losing his form in his early-20s and for not having countless wars with lesser men, as Holyfield did. If a guy was leagues below Lewis he tended to brutally chin him. Lewis is punished for things we generally praise a fighter for and why is this, because he’s aloof and confident, call the cops. So what if his passport said Canada, his heart was Jamaican and his media savvy side was British.

Plus Lewis legitimately beat a guy who went on to become one of the world’s number one and the people who cream over Vitali should bear in mind that Lewis ripped his face up and TKO’d him.

Merchant may have purposefully and erroneously labelled the TKO win as “controversial”, but it was a clean win. Lederman summed it up best when explaining why he couldn’t take to Lewis, he said: “Lewis often ignores you, but Wlad and Vitali will happily stop and talk to you on the corridors.” That tells us more about Harold, and the men who take to the mic, than it does about Lewis. Lennox brought in good figures for HBO in his latter career and some decent fights, Wlad and Vitali don’t, but at least they’ll do a stop and chat next time they get on the network, eh?

There's never a reason to be a cock... we all go through shit in life but can still be courteous and polite. Lennox has lots of money... what's he got to be grumpy about? Working 6-8 to feed his family and working weekends? No! He loves talking about himself

If you approach him as he's about to go to work at an event then you'll probably be rebuffed. Why not just drop a line via his website for a signed photo and see if they oblige? 9/10 times if someone stopped you while you were on the way to work and asked for a quick photo you'd tell them to eff off.

Plus my post was more in response to the ‘I think Lennox, the two-time Olympian, Olympic gold medallist, former undisputed world champion and three-time world champion thinks he is better than he is’ line, because the brief list of his achievements I’ve just listed would suggest that he’s earned the right to rate himself just a little bit.[/quote]

If you spoke to me on the way to work I wouldn't be a dick. I'ld still chat for 30 seconds. Plus his work is not work. He sits on a comfy sofa, chats about boxing and bigs himself up... he has no reason to be grumpy whatsoever

[thepocketrocket]

Boswell isn't Lewis. On the flipside Johnson wasn't Vitali. Neither was prepared for each other, sparring would be different, tactics would be different. Lewis knew this and got out before he slipped any more...hence the retirement. That's not be a coward, that's being smart and it helps his record (Holyfield will always be judged on losses to Ruiz and Toney, even if that is unfair)

I'm not saying Lewis would have got destroyed in the rematch, I'm saying that he got out before he slipped and shyed away from that 'oh, just one last match' that hurts the careers of others. This helps his record.

The 'who wins the Vitali v Lennox rematch' is actually irrelevant to the point I was making. But we all know there is a tipping point, and so did Lennox.

[thepocketrocket]

And a very clever quoting of the word "bums" when I never used that line and never would about a fighter. My line was "people like these" in reference to the fact that they were fringe contenders who weren't of title standard. Way to discredit!

[big lennox]

Who mentioned Enzo? The two people I don't like are both based in London. One is a boxer and the other is his trainer.[/quote]

I am intrigued.Who is the boxer and trainer and what was the matter with them?

[thepocketrocket]

Boswell isn't Lewis. On the flipside Johnson wasn't Vitali. Neither was prepared for each other, sparring would be different, tactics would be different. Lewis knew this and got out before he slipped any more...hence the retirement. That's not be a coward, that's being smart and it helps his record (Holyfield will always be judged on losses to Ruiz and Toney, even if that is unfair)

I'm not saying Lewis would have got destroyed in the rematch, I'm saying that he got out before he slipped and shyed away from that 'oh, just one last match' that hurts the careers of others. This helps his record.

The 'who wins the Vitali v Lennox rematch' is actually irrelevant to the point I was making. But we all know there is a tipping point, and so did Lennox.

So why say that Vitali would have done better with proper notice and not mention that Lewis was in the same boat and conceivably could have done better had he known in advance he was taking on Vitali? Lewis was top dog, he'd have been on Vitali's mind constantly, or should have been, so going into that one Vitali was in a better place, but still failed to take the titles. Vitali went from facing a shorter guy to facing a shorter guy. Lewis went from facing a shorter guy to facing a taller guy, after a run of fights in which he took on relatively small heavyweights, so there is some difference there.

Lewis was at the point where he could do what he liked, including not go through with a rematch against a man who had done well early, lost legitimately and all because some fans didn't understand what a TKO loss is and felt it was a controversial ending when it was anything but.

And a very clever quoting of the word "bums" when I never used that line and never would about a fighter. My line was "people like these" in reference to the fact that they were fringe contenders who weren't of title standard. Way to discredit!

I put "bums" in quotations because people often refer to them as such, nothing to do with your replies.

I did mention that Vitali wasn't Johnson. I think it would be wrong to say that either was at any advantage that night.

The rematch would have been massive and would have been built up to a mega event. In my opinion (not shared by you) I don't think Lewis wanted to wait another eight months and take the fight, knowing that fighters get old quickly. He was slower that night but did enough to win. Time waits for no man and Lennox got out at the right time. The world is full of fighters who get a win and think they still have it. They are as surprised as anyone when they get filled in and Lennox didn't want to risk going down that route.

What we can agree on (I hope) is that Vitali wasn't a Michael Grant, David Tua or Hasim Rahman. I believe that factored into his decision, you don't. As I said, I wasn't categorically stating Vitali would win, just that the risk/reward was no longer there due to Vitali's quality. And the fact he got out at the right time helps his record.

Oh, and anyone who called Mcall and Rahman bums should be put out of their misery, they were good quality fighters.

[black panther]

I was completely shit-faced in a club called Shaka Zulu in Camden when I saw Darren Barker after his defeat to Martinez. I vaguely remember his manager or someone like that saying something like "he's not seeing anyone now". But I was so pissed I just pushed past him and went straight upto Barker who was sat down with his girlfriend. He got up had a little chat with me and his girlfriend even took a picture of me and him. I think I was chatting all kinds of slurring drunken crap about how I was dreaming to turn pro(basically my shoulder is f*cked and I'm too shit anyway lol) and he still wished me good luck as I stumbled off!

Top bloke.

[Wales]

If were goimg down the route of people who WERE top then billy graham comes in to it. Me and Dooley gave billy a 4am blow by blow account, in real time, of how ricky could beat floyd when on the piss in ireland. Had to walk billy to his room after as he had no idea where he was, or what room he was in. Didnt take our advice on the fight either. That night in vegas wouldve been different story had the preacher listened to me and diddy.

[rhino222]

If were goimg down the route of people who WERE top then billy graham comes in to it. Me and Dooley gave billy a 4am blow

wow...ive never had anyone famous in my mouth, much as i appreciate fans will go to any length for their heroes, and much as i appreciate billy was a great trainer for hatton, i still find any sort of male on male act disgusting!

[Wales]

Proper sun quote that would be - hatton trainer in gay fans shocker "me and dooley gave billy a 4am blow" said one of the crazed groupies. "He should change his name from the preacher to the priest" said a disgruntled Hatton fan who didn't wish to be named.

[mfc_se15]

If were goimg down the route of people who WERE top then billy graham comes in to it. Me and Dooley gave billy a 4am blow by blow account, in real time, of how ricky could beat floyd when on the piss in ireland. Had to walk billy to his room after as he had no idea where he was, or what room he was in. Didnt take our advice on the fight either. That night in vegas wouldve been different story had the preacher listened to me and diddy.

Met Barker at the Froch after show party. Was a top lad, although I think it helped that he was trying to get away from someone who was even more drunk than me - so my conversational skills were seen as a step up for once

[Wales]

Bert Sugar annoyed the hell out of me after hatton mayweather. I wanted to engage him in conversation about Cotto Mayweather, but he made a sharp exit when some american wanted to know something stupid like who'd win out of a shark and a suicide bomber. I was a little drunk though, which may have attributed to his sharp exit. Infact I was smashed.

[saturday_kid]

My younger cousin in Mansfield would often see Naz pull up in his Porche / Ferrari on his cul-de-sac when him and his mrs would come to visit her sister.

He was at the peak of his fame, but would have a kick around for ages with the lads on the street until it was time for their tea.

Her sister was a nurse at Kings Mill Hospital in Mansfield, a young lad nicknamed 'Buster' was very ill with cancer. He was a lovely kid in the same year as my cousin. Naz went in one day to lift his spirits and they became good pals. Naz would going in regular to see him and would bring him stuff and they'd chat for hours.

When he made his American debut, he offered to pay for Buster and his dad to come over ringside for it. 1st class and everything. But sadly Buster's health was failing him and he sadly died not long after aged about 17 or something.

Naz was a pallbearer of his coffin and stood and made a speech in church for him. He later went on to be a patron for Children's cancer charities for a while.

It was terrible when Naz hit that bloke and then ran off, but there are other sides to him.

Nice story that (well obviously not nice the poor lad died but you know what i mean) dont hear much of that side to Naz

[clubberlang]

Met Luke Campbell in a pub round Hull a few years back, I was steaming and didn’t know who he was at the time but we had a quick chat, I think I tried to convince to turn pro (what a mistake that would have been), seemed a nice kid.

Got in a taxi with Tony Booth and had a right natter about his pro career, I especially praised him for his game try at Crawford Ashley’s British title; surprisingly he said that Eddie Smulders was the hardest puncher he fought. He blamed bad management for his lack of a success.

And finally I saw Smoking Joe in Vegas at one of these signing sessions, wasn’t particularly willing to pay for a signature but I was tempted to start a ruckuss so he could knock me out with that famous left hand of his, sadly common sense prevailed so now I will never get knocked out by Joe Frazier.

[junior pepa seed]

Nicky piper aka a fat Aled jones

I meet Cotto and Sprott both of whom were real nice people.

Geoff Mcreesh... well what can i say had an argument with 4 blokes in town once and it was about to get nasty and some fella came over to even it up..they left it and i realised it was Geoff..lol great guy.

[thepocketrocket]

I never said he was old and slow, I said he was older and slower, that isn't the same as old and low, all about levels.

I believe that Vitali would have been better prepared had he known he was fighting Lewis, as Lewis would have been better prepared had he knew he was fighting Vitali. That's why I said no real advantages.

Lewis, even today thinks Vitali is quality, and I don't think he thought that the risk/reward was there. If Lewis thought Vitali was some robotic crapfest he would have carried on, mega rematch, two round win and retire.

For me, I think he realised that Vitali was a huge danger, so what was the point in risking damaging his legacy?? Really clever and the right decision. Saying Lewis was wary of the risk Vitali would pose in eight months time isn't the same as saying that Lewis was defecating in the corner at the prospect of rematching Klit. He is just brighter than those who go on to long and get beaten by the next generation

[big lennox]

I think Lennox was a bit shocked by how good Vitali was. He had previously trained for and battered a totally shop warn Tyson who posed no threat at all and suddently found himself in a proper fight, but his character came through and he pulled out the win, is the way I saw it.

[thepocketrocket]

I think Lennox was a bit shocked by how good Vitali was. He had previously trained for and battered a totally shop warn Tyson who posed no threat at all and suddently found himself in a proper fight, but his character came through and he pulled out the win, is the way I saw it.

Yeah, I think they both had trained for guys they knew they could smash up. Johnson had lost his shine post Ruiz, and you didn't need to be Bert Sugar to realise Boswell was crap.

The Tyson fight was a huge event, rather than a good fight. Vitali on the other hand was a live body. Lewis had a real warrior mentality though, and came out on top.

[Bricks]

Lennox Lewis and Frank Maloney ......in particular Maloney who came across as a rough short arse little ducker and diver......it was early 97...me and my 18 stone friend Jethro were on Oxford Street both of us 19-20 year olds when we went past a waterstones and saw a poster saying the new WBC HW champ Lewis was inside signing books. The shop was a smaller one of the chain and there were like only 15 people inside....Lewis was sat at a desk. I wanted a picture , so my mate ran to the tourist shop next door and got a cheap disposabal. Than we ran and picked up a Lewis book and queued the 30 seconds it took to get to Lewis (only 2 people in front)...i asked for a photo and suddenly Maloney got all Eastenders on me, asking if we were buying the book or just out for a pic. I confessed we were huge Lewis fans and that we wanted a pic. Maloney was in the middle of saying "if you dont want to buy a book dont try and get a pic when LL just said its ok without looking up, normally this would be a magnanimous gesture but he didnt look up and when i extended my hand he shook it without looking up and the picture was taken than. So basically a very odd pic where im standing shaking someones outstretched right hand to his left side, and he has a cap on looking down and u cant see his face and my head cant fit in the pic!! lol total BS picture...and very bizzare experience.

Chris Eubanks- Absolute gentleman and classy fellow , saw him on Edgeware road around summer 2007 i said hi and he stopped warmly shook hands, and he listened to my compliment and answered a question i had. He even asked if i wanted to know anything else i said its ok chris your a busy man. Absolute gentleman.

Mickey Duff- Also very warm friendly guy bumped into him in 2006 in selfridges. Very warm welcome.

Marc Callaghan- In Kronk in 2002, brilliant lad, one of the best shadowboxing routines I ever seen even took me on the pads. Very talented and skillfull kid.

[Loynesy]

(and no, that isnt meant to be a sly dig at Ian...!)[/quote]
Guest appearance? Where have you been hiding Loynesy? The forum's been poorer for your absence...[/quote]

His f**king clients will be the poorer for his absence from here, that I can guarantee you. [/quote]
No doubt![/quote]

Thank you for the kind words. My clients have never complained about my modest charges - do you think you could have got Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men" for less than a G an hour?

As I once said to Floyd Mayweather over lunch in Vegas, I'm not a man to place or name drop.

But the thread is about inauspicious meetings with boxers, but as I said, I've observed far more poor behaviour around the fringes of the sport than the combatants, so, without being defamatory (as I'm happy to swear affadavits if they recognise themselves), my low 5 would be:

1. Being offered a crack pipe in a strip club by a trainer about 3 hours after his fighter had lost in a PPV headline bout.
2. A well known boxing journalist spending the afternoon being pleasured by a girl he "met" after a Vegas weigh in. He tried to expense it, and it was paid, solely so his paper had leverage over him (and he didnt get a pay rise for 3 years).
3. Being told by a well known trainer that his fighter had no chance in a 50/50 fight, and that he'd told all his friends to go large on the other guy. Sadly, he was correct, early KO.
4. A larger than life pundit being fired by his broadsheet rag and literally crying down the phone to the Sports Editor (who put it on speakerphone for the desk to hear).
5. The promoter in the executive lounge of one of London's airports a couple of weeks ago. Wife, daughter or niece?

[Wales]

1-4 go on....
5 - eh?

[Wales]

5 - gothca... Go on too

[Wales]

If not pointless, i know of...

1) a very well known boxer who was shagging big daddys wifr
2) a trainer who bet big on his fighter losing
3) richard secret williams
4) a very famous fighter who pulled a hooker by producing a glove from his world championship bout
5) a boxrec poster who cant spell wife

[Jeff Thomas]

Wow if I wasn't a nice guy ...

I could change the face of boxing with my 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.....

[palooka]

Wow if I wasn't a nice guy ...

I could change the face of boxing with my 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.....

Just post it under another name

I need to know