Does anyone not have Ray Robinson at #1

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 20 Sep 2005, 15:31

Is there anyone who doesn't think that Ray Robinson is the best fighter of all time?

There's arguments that could be made, but I have him at 1.

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 20 Sep 2005, 15:51

I have him number one, but I could see how someone could have Armstrong or Louis at number 1 also.

theone · Post by **theone** » 20 Sep 2005, 16:00

I have Robinson at #2. The reason I have Ali at #1 is because if you ranked the ten greatest fighter at heavyweight he arguably beat #4; Foreman, Liston,fraizer and Patterson if he makes your list. he beat three of them past his prime, which he lost 3 and a half years. i do respect the opinion of Robinson and at #1 and wouldnt argue it.
Armsrtong,Greb and Pep round up my top 5, with Louis at 6.

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 20 Sep 2005, 16:13

I have the one, and only SUGAR Ray Robinson as my all-time greatest fighter who's ever lived.
Ali is the "greatest" with that self-labled moniker. But noone beats Robinson for being the best fighter pound for pound, who's ever walked this planet.
I know Marciano was the toughest heavy weight. But he did accomplish nearly as much as the ONLY Sugar Ray did.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:09

id have to say ali.. he dominated the best division in boxing history..ive recently changed my mind.. its ahrd thougb because its not like great heavyweight champions move in weight class because heavyweight is were the money and fame is.. so it wouldnt be fair to ali just because ehe didnt jump in divisions

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:15

Ali, great though he was, did not have the longevity that Sugar Ray did. Just compare fight records.

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:29

BoxRec all time ratings say:

Muhammad Ali 1,779 1960 - 1981 56-5-0
Sugar Ray Robinson 1,777 1940 - 1965 173-19-6
Carlos Monzon 1,747 1963 - 1977 87-3-9
Ezzard Charles 1,738 1940 - 1959 97-25-1
Joe Louis 1,728 1934 - 1951 68-3-0
Carlos Ortiz 1,727 1955 - 1972 60-7-1
Oscar De La Hoya 1,720 1992 - 2004 37-4-0
Julio Cesar Chavez 1,716 1980 - 2005 108-6-2

Quite close, I think...

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:31

wlvrne wrote:Ali, great though he was, did not have the longevity that Sugar Ray did. Just compare fight records.

this may be true but SRR wasnt as dominant as Ali was throughout his career.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:32

boxrec.com has p4p/greatest fighter ever rankings???

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:35

Rory McCloskey wrote:boxrec.com has p4p/greatest fighter ever rankings???

You have to collect them from the weight divisions in the all time ratings:

http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?natio ... &SUBMIT=Go

theone · Post by **theone** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:46

Muhammad Ali 1,779 1960 - 1981 56-5-0
Sugar Ray Robinson 1,777 1940 - 1965 173-19-6
Carlos Monzon 1,747 1963 - 1977 87-3-9
Ezzard Charles 1,738 1940 - 1959 97-25-1
Joe Louis 1,728 1934 - 1951 68-3-0
Carlos Ortiz 1,727 1955 - 1972 60-7-1
Oscar De La Hoya 1,720 1992 - 2004 37-4-0
Julio Cesar Chavez 1,716 1980 - 2005 108-6-2
Carlos Ortiz?There goes the credibility of this ranking system. No way should he or Delahoya even be considered better than Chavez.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Sep 2005, 18:14

I'd put Henry Armstrong at number 1.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 20 Sep 2005, 18:49

I think that a very solid case could be made for Ezzard Charles as the number one fighter of all time; one could argue equally as well for Robinson, or Armstrong. How about Mickey Walker? It all depends on what you want to consider important in making your decision. Robinson had two wins, in non-tittle fights, over the lightweight champ, was welter champ, and middle champ, and nearly won the LHW title. Armstrong, we all know his accomplishments. Same with Charles, so if best p4p involves being good at various wts, then no hw could ever win, iunless like Charles he began at MW at was successful all the waty up.
My vote for #1 goes to Charles, then Robinson, then Armstrong

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 20 Sep 2005, 19:56

No one has mentioned Harry Greb.

Look at his record.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Sep 2005, 21:01

Greb is easily defendable in the #1 spot.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 20 Sep 2005, 21:12

It would be very hard to argue against Greb.

dws · Post by **dws** » 20 Sep 2005, 22:52

I think Robinson is given the nod due to his unique combination of speed and power,even opponents who despised him like Basilio and Pender said what a great puncher he was and they fought him when he was older,imagine him with speed.He was an iron chinned,inexhaustable power puncher with great quickness.I'd say Robinson but anyone who said Armstrong or Greb wouldn't get too much of an argument from me,all 3 were almost unbeatable during their primes.

theone · Post by **theone** » 20 Sep 2005, 23:00

No one has mentioned Harry Greb

I did earlier in the thread. I ranked him my #4 behind Ali,Robinson and Armstrong. you could mix and match these four in the order without much of an argument from me.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 21 Sep 2005, 02:12

The fact of the matter is that no lighter weight fighter can ever be named the greatest fighter ever. The heavies were the KINGS of the ring. They were the best fighters thru history in the prespective eras. Robinson was an awesome Welter and Middle, but there were tons of guys in his day that would have KO'd him easily. Yes they were bigger and heavier, but that's not their fault...it's just nature. And there is no real way to determine who would win in a p4p war. That's all just fantasy...with that Ali gets number 1, followed by Louis and then other great heavies. Why not compose a list of the greatest fighters outside of the heavies. This would be a lot more realistic

barry · Post by **barry** » 21 Sep 2005, 04:26

>>>No way should he or Delahoya even be considered better than Chavez.<<<

Didn't De La Hoya beat Chavez...twice...actually made him quit!

I have Robinson and Armstrong tied at #1, but I'm leaning more to Armstrong the more I learn about him. Armstong held the 126, 135 and 147 pound titles concurrently and also should have won the 160 title, but was given a bogus draw. No one in history has ever come close to matching what Armstrong did and it most certainly was not as it is today when a fighter can face three, even four title holders at one weight...Armstrong took the titles from the very best.

Shaolin Bushido · Post by **Shaolin Bushido** » 21 Sep 2005, 04:33

If I had to pick one I'll go with the easy one ... Sugar Ray Robinson. He just looked so effortless ... whether he was absorbing body shots and responding or moving around his opponent and launching a stream of shots that seemed to flow over his opponent.

And he did it all with power to boot. I love watching that guy fight. He just seemed so self assured and the results of his fights seem to support this assumption.

jwizard · Post by **jwizard** » 21 Sep 2005, 17:48

Walshb, I think you miss the point of Pound for Pound rankings.

What people are looking for which fighter had the greatest set of skills, irregardless of weight, ever?

George Foreman would've beaten Sugar Ray in a boxing match...but was he a BETTER fighter? Was he more skilled? No way in hell.

That's what these rankings are all about.

Also, it can be argued that Sugar Ray Robinson fought the greatest competition of any fighter ever. He defeated 10 Hall of Famers and 16 World Champions over his career.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 21 Sep 2005, 20:45

i really cant decide between him an Ali

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 21 Sep 2005, 21:38

barry wrote:>>>No way should he or Delahoya even be considered better than Chavez.<<<

Didn't De La Hoya beat Chavez...twice...actually made him quit!

I have Robinson and Armstrong tied at #1, but I'm leaning more to Armstrong the more I learn about him. Armstong held the 126, 135 and 147 pound titles concurrently and also should have won the 160 title, but was given a bogus draw. No one in history has ever come close to matching what Armstrong did and it most certainly was not as it is today when a fighter can face three, even four title holders at one weight...Armstrong took the titles from the very best.

Robinson came pretty close, he beat the lightweight champion Sammy Angott when the title wasn't on the line, won the welterweight belt,the middleweight belt several times and beat the lightheavyweight champion for 13 rounds and then due to unusual circumstances had to stop.

He beat plenty of hall of famers even while he was past his prime.

theone · Post by **theone** » 21 Sep 2005, 22:45

Didn't De La Hoya beat Chavez...twice...actually made him quit!

What does that mean? Dempsey lost twice to Tunney..is Tunney better all time? spinks defeated holmes twice..is he the better heavyweight?

Does anyone not have Ray Robinson at #1

Does anyone not have Ray Robinson at #1

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