Vazquez v. Vazquez (Wilfredo Sr. v. Israel).

[Rover]

I think Israel would've scored a KO. Better chin, but it would've been another classic Vazquez bout.

[Datsue]

I think Israel would've scored a KO. Better chin, but it would've been another classic Vazquez bout.

Would be a war, deffo, but I think (sacrilege coming up) Wilf's chin might hold up under Israel's earnest, value for money, workmanlike, steady but somewhat predictable attack. & if it did, he might get a decision. At his best he could be wily, & sneaky, hard to nail clean & hit real good on the counter. Of course, sometimes he was shit. Just shocking sometimes. But whilst I wouldn't fancy his chances I'd say he's got a better than decent chance of sneaking this one somehow.

Magnifico should win this, but I wouldn't put it past the old codger to outpoint him. Love to see it though.

[Rover]

I think Israel would've scored a KO. Better chin, but it would've been another classic Vazquez bout.

Would be a war, deffo, but I think (sacrilege coming up) Wilf's chin might hold up under Israel's earnest, value for money, workmanlike, steady but somewhat predictable attack. & if it did, he might get a decision. At his best he could be wily, & sneaky, hard to nail clean & hit real good on the counter. Of course, sometimes he was shit. Just shocking sometimes. But whilst I wouldn't fancy his chances I'd say he's got a better than decent chance of sneaking this one somehow.

Magnifico should win this, but I wouldn't put it past the old codger to outpoint him. Love to see it though.

He sure looked like shit v. another Israel...Contreras.
What big punchers did he beat at jr. feather?
I don't consider Canizales one at that weight. Polo-Perez, Mendoza, Choi, Kasai, Jacob, Cruz, and Perez weren't big hitters at that weight, either. I think Magnifico would get him late.
How'd you score Vazquez-Canizales?

[Datsue]

I think Israel would've scored a KO. Better chin, but it would've been another classic Vazquez bout.

Would be a war, deffo, but I think (sacrilege coming up) Wilf's chin might hold up under Israel's earnest, value for money, workmanlike, steady but somewhat predictable attack. & if it did, he might get a decision. At his best he could be wily, & sneaky, hard to nail clean & hit real good on the counter. Of course, sometimes he was shit. Just shocking sometimes. But whilst I wouldn't fancy his chances I'd say he's got a better than decent chance of sneaking this one somehow.

Magnifico should win this, but I wouldn't put it past the old codger to outpoint him. Love to see it though.

He sure looked like shit v. another Israel...Contreras.
What big punchers did he beat at jr. feather?
I don't consider Canizales one at that weight. Polo-Perez, Mendoza, Choi, Kasai, Jacob, Cruz, and Perez weren't big hitters at that weight, either. I think Magnifico would get him late.
How'd you score Vazquez-Canizales?

Canizales, by a couple, I think. It's been years though, so I should dig it out & score it properly.

I wouldn't disagree with your summation; however I believe Canizales to be a superior technician (& more accurate puncher) than Israel, so I don't think he'd land as many as Orlando was able to: Israel's attack was a lot more straightforward (metaphorically & literally) I think.

Again, entirely possible Wilfredo could have a shit one. In which case he'd get steamrolled & overpowered mid-late.

[Rover]

Had it Orlando by 2 also.
Quite an anticlimax after Gonzalez-Kelley.

As for comparing Canizales and Israel, Orlando was more accurate, but Israel threw more and, IMHO, hit harder.

[Datsue]

Had it Orlando by 2 also.
Quite an anticlimax after Gonzalez-Kelley.

As for comparing Canizales and Israel, Orlando was more accurate, but Israel threw more and, IMHO, hit harder.

Man, anything would be an anticlimax after Cobrita vs Kelley!

Featherweight in the late 80s/early 90s provided no shining ATG talents that are leaping to my mind at this ungodly hour; yet Kelley, Dorsey, Gonzalez, Espinoza (the Filipino one), Medina, Johnson, Vargas indulged in some ATG fights.

EDIT: Okay. Maybe not Johnson. But you get what I mean. & yes, as you said, Magnifico (that was his nickname, right?) had the power over Orlando, but I just have a sneaking suspicion Wilfredo (on his night, with the moon in the correct quarter & the runes cast & the lucky rabbit's foot wrapped in a five-leaf clover) might've nicked it. It's Israel's lesser ability (compared to Canizales) to get his shots on until his target has slowed down that leads me to believe WV might've got it.

But as I said, IV is the favourite, & deservingly so.

[Rover]

Had it Orlando by 2 also.
Quite an anticlimax after Gonzalez-Kelley.

As for comparing Canizales and Israel, Orlando was more accurate, but Israel threw more and, IMHO, hit harder.

Man, anything would be an anticlimax after Cobrita vs Kelley!

Featherweight in the late 80s/early 90s provided no shining ATG talents that are leaping to my mind at this ungodly hour; yet Kelley, Dorsey, Gonzalez, Espinoza (the Filipino one), Medina, Johnson, Vargas indulged in some ATG fights.

EDIT: Okay. Maybe not Johnson. But you get what I mean. & yes, as you said, Magnifico (that was his nickname, right?) had the power over Orlando, but I just have a sneaking suspicion Wilfredo (on his night, with the moon in the correct quarter & the runes cast & the lucky rabbit's foot wrapped in a five-leaf clover) might've nicked it. It's Israel's lesser ability (compared to Canizales) to get his shots on until his target has slowed down that leads me to believe WV might've got it.

But as I said, IV is the favourite, & deservingly so.

You forgot Fenech!
And Johnson-Beleno was pretty good.

[Counter-puncher]

Had it Orlando by 2 also.
Quite an anticlimax after Gonzalez-Kelley.

As for comparing Canizales and Israel, Orlando was more accurate, but Israel threw more and, IMHO, hit harder.

Man, anything would be an anticlimax after Cobrita vs Kelley!

Featherweight in the late 80s/early 90s provided no shining ATG talents that are leaping to my mind at this ungodly hour; yet Kelley, Dorsey, Gonzalez, Espinoza (the Filipino one), Medina, Johnson, Vargas indulged in some ATG fights.

EDIT: Okay. Maybe not Johnson. But you get what I mean. & yes, as you said, Magnifico (that was his nickname, right?) had the power over Orlando, but I just have a sneaking suspicion Wilfredo (on his night, with the moon in the correct quarter & the runes cast & the lucky rabbit's foot wrapped in a five-leaf clover) might've nicked it. It's Israel's lesser ability (compared to Canizales) to get his shots on until his target has slowed down that leads me to believe WV might've got it.

But as I said, IV is the favourite, & deservingly so.

Israel tends to square up on the inside to throw his left hook which would suit Daddy Wilf quite well. also Daddy Wilf much better when he is allowed to plant his feet, which he mostly would be able to do against Israel.

quite surprised nobody's referenced the first Larios fight, here, yet. wide-swinging bomber who commits to his punches outlasts Israel in battle of attrition. that has a familiar ring to it.

[Datsue]

As usual, far more incisive than I, C-P. Though I was shit-faced when I wrote that, which might explain it.

But now you mention it... The first Larios fight? Wasn't that a first round KO? Or am I hallucinating? Didn't they have three fights? I get confused, but I think IV got worn down & stopped the second time...

[Counter-puncher]

not to say it's a no-brainer. Daddy Wilf wasn't invulnerable to the Israel trademark short left hook, amongst other things, but i think he's a bit more of a two-fisted puncher than Israel, even if he's a less compact one.

this'd make a good trilogy, to be fair.

anyway, I'm not incisive, just lazy, and not that well-informed on these two, who were both always just inside my radar, but only just.

[Counter-puncher]

oh yeah, it was the 2nd one Larios won. weird fvcking trilogy.

[Rover]

I think Larios had a better chin than Vazquez (Wilfredo). He also had higher work rate, and he had better height that allowed him to fight more from range.

[Datsue]

I think Larios had a better chin than Vazquez (Wilfredo). He also had higher work rate, and he had better height that allowed him to fight more from range.

Hmm. I was never quite sold on Larios' chin, meself. I know he took heavy punishment & shrugged it off repeatedly but whenever I watched him I just kept expecting him to fall apart dramatically. Might just be me, though. But I concede he's taller & threw more punches. Wilfredo definitely hit harder than Chololo, though, & I think more accurately, so it kinda evens out for me.

But we're going back & forth (or sometimes it appears if you are) over nada, really, as we're both on the same page here, I feel...

[Datsue]

Man... I've just watched the second Larios-Vazquez fight for the first time in ages. Cheers Rover, for reminding me of this. What a goddamn war.

Funnily enough, IV starts to go, I noticed, from a huge overhand right that detonated on the side of his head whilst he was complaining about the slippery ring logo. That puts him down the first time, & you can see on his face he thinks "Fvck this" from that point on. Two more big rights & he's on his knees.

Right. Time for a new thread...