Leavander Johnson?

JimmyJamJerusalem · Post by **JimmyJamJerusalem** » 20 Sep 2005, 22:53

Not wanting Manos and Silkov to kick off agin, but does anybody know the current state of affairs concerning Leavander Johnson??

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Sep 2005, 04:45

He is still in a induced coma, will be until the swelling reduces.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Sep 2005, 11:36

The last I read the doctors said he had shown a 'drastic improvement'. They will probably keep him in an induced coma for at least a week then try to bring him out slowly if there aren't any complications.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 21 Sep 2005, 12:30

AP 20/09/05

LAS VEGAS -- The news conference afterward was filled with the usual congratulations for the winners and talk about bigger things to come. Oscar De La Hoya was the promoter and he answered questions in two languages, thanked all for coming and declared the night a success.

Outside, HBO was hosting a poolside party at the MGM Grand hotel-casino for those lucky enough to get an invite. There was plenty of food, drink and laughter for the fight crowd.

Spirits weren't so high in a hospital not far from the glittering Las Vegas Strip. There, Leavander Johnson lay in the intensive care unit after a bout with Austin's Jesus Chavez, his doctor unsure he would survive the night.

Johnson had hoped to end the biggest night of his boxing life with the IBF lightweight title belt still around his waist. He might have even enjoyed himself at the HBO party afterward.

"He was fighting for a world title, then a few minutes later here he is fighting for his life," said Johnson's father, Bill, who also is his trainer.

Johnson said his son knew the risks. He had been fighting for money for 16 years, and understood that taking punches to the head could be dangerous.

Unfortunately, as Mike Tyson likes to say, boxing is a hurt business.

But it shouldn't hurt this bad.

Johnson left the ring upright, not knowing that a blood clot was beginning to form, eventually swelling so much it moved his brain from the right side of his skull to the left. When his left leg began dragging on the way to the dressing room, though, it was clear something was terribly wrong.

The doctors of the Nevada Athletic Commission acted quickly. In the space of 40 minutes, they got him to the hospital and then into surgery. A surgeon induced him into a coma, took out a piece of his skull, and left it open so his brain would have room to swell.

The problem is, his injury is not an isolated one.

Four times in the last four months in Las Vegas, boxers have left the ring bleeding in the brain. One is dead; two others survived. Doctors don't know why some fighters are injured while others can spend a career getting hit in the head and show no ill effects.

"That is the biggest concern of all, that there have been so many of these," said Dr. Margaret Goodman, a neurologist and the ringside doctor who examined Johnson during the fight. "I think we need to evaluate the system from top to bottom."

What is clear is that Johnson took a savage beating in a fight that probably shouldn't have gone as far as it did, 38 seconds into the 11th round.

The 35-year-old, who remained in critical condition Monday, fought valiantly but was outclassed by Chavez. Bill Johnson warned his son at one point he was going to stop the fight, but it continued until Chavez threw some two dozen unanswered punches and referee Tony Weeks finally called it.

Goodman immediately leaped into the ring to tend to the fighter. He said he was OK, didn't have a headache and wasn't dizzy. "I'm just sad and disappointed," Leavander Johnson told the doctor.

In a way, he was lucky. If another half hour had been wasted getting Johnson into the operating room, he likely would have died, just as 75 percent or more of fighters with such injuries do.

But something is surely amiss. Four brain injuries in four months in one city is four too many. It's a wakeup call that blares at boxing regulators to try to find out why.

A good start might be brain scans before every fight, though promoters argue the cost would be exorbitant. As it is, no one knows if Johnson came into the fight with a brain problem, just as no one knows whether he was injured by a punch in the first round or the punches that finally ended the fight.

"Maybe we can't find the answer, but it's something that has to be done and done very quickly," Goodman said.

It's too late for Johnson. All anyone can hope is that his brain responds when doctors eventually wean him off the drugs that induced his coma.

But it's not too late for those who come after him.

Even in a hurt business, they deserve a little help.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Sep 2005, 15:19

Unfortunatly there is always going to be injuries in boxing, its a contact sport, they can try and make it safer, but it will happen again.

Look at all sports, 4 died doing the great north run, no calls for that to be banned. In the rally of wales a co-driver died in a crash, again no calls for that to be banned.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Sep 2005, 16:01

Yes the four deaths during the great north run were shocking... they were all quite young as well. Perhaps the injuries to the boxers recently is just bad luck but it should be looked into to see if something is going wrong somewhere.

stepper · Post by **stepper** » 21 Sep 2005, 16:38

I was not suprised to see people second guess the ref on the original Levander thread, I was of the opinion the ref stepped in at the right time as I watched the fight and I stand by that.

Let's be honest, boxing is a brutal sport. Scoring a knockdown normally means that a boxer has received a punch that whiplashes his head, making his brain move in his skull and the resultant disorientation takes him off his feet.

What can we do to make the sport safer? Maybe have an age limit, it won't stop tragedy but might reduce it. People die doing sport but car crashes and heart attacks are accidental whereas a great shot that puts a boxer down is seen as perfection in boxing.

It's not a sport that can be made error free but it is a sport where we can honestly respect the bravery of the competitors and try to manage the moaning from the Liberals.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Sep 2005, 17:10

stepper wrote:I was not suprised to see people second guess the ref on the original Levander thread, I was of the opinion the ref stepped in at the right time as I watched the fight and I stand by that.

Let's be honest, boxing is a brutal sport. Scoring a knockdown normally means that a boxer has received a punch that whiplashes his head, making his brain move in his skull and the resultant disorientation takes him off his feet.

What can we do to make the sport safer? Maybe have an age limit, it won't stop tragedy but might reduce it. People die doing sport but car crashes and heart attacks are accidental whereas a great shot that puts a boxer down is seen as perfection in boxing.

It's not a sport that can be made error free but it is a sport where we can honestly respect the bravery of the competitors and try to manage the moaning from the Liberals.

The thing that I'd say about the stoppage is that Johnson looked exhausted by the 9th round and I think either the ref or Johnsons corner should or could have stopped it round about that time. Having said that I've seen fights go on longer with a fighter taking the same amount of punishment or more and coming out ok.
Its important that fights are stopped when a fighter reaches the point of exhaustion... that didn't quite happen for Levandar.

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 21 Sep 2005, 18:05

silkov wrote:Yes the four deaths during the great north run were shocking... they were all quite young as well. Perhaps the injuries to the boxers recently is just bad luck but it should be looked into to see if something is going wrong somewhere.

So the guy was unlucky to be repeatedly beat about the head?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Sep 2005, 06:02

topper123 wrote:Unfortunatly there is always going to be injuries in boxing, its a contact sport, they can try and make it safer, but it will happen again.

Look at all sports, 4 died doing the great north run, no calls for that to be banned. In the rally of wales a co-driver died in a crash, again no calls for that to be banned.

In terms of deaths per competition, boxing is waaaaay down the list of most dangerous sports.

J · Post by J » 22 Sep 2005, 06:04

FACT MORE PEPLE DIE A YEAR RIDING DONKEYS THAN DIE IN BOXING.

useless bit of info but its true apparently.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 22 Sep 2005, 06:17

In numbers of deaths, yes, boxing comes off OK.

In proportions of deaths it's less well-off and in proportions of participants who suffer a brain injury, I'd imagine the stats are less rosy.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Sep 2005, 06:22

Incorrect, not numbers of deaths, PROPORTION of deaths.

The office of national statistics records show that boxing is something like 19th on the list of dangerous sports. Motor Racing, Rugby, Skiiing, Mountaineering, Canoeing, all have more deaths per million competitions. If you look in the June 2004 edition of boxing news, there's an article in there by one James McDonnell (plug) with details of the exact statistics

However, in terms of injuries, boxing produces far more serious head injuries than other sports I would imagine, and it's far harder to keep statistics on participants who suffer from debilitating neurological conditions later in life.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Sep 2005, 06:27

jeej wrote:
silkov wrote:Yes the four deaths during the great north run were shocking... they were all quite young as well. Perhaps the injuries to the boxers recently is just bad luck but it should be looked into to see if something is going wrong somewhere.
So the guy was unlucky to be repeatedly beat about the head?

What I meant is perhaps it is bad luck that 4 boxers have been injured in so short a space of time. Sometimes things happen like that... there may be no underlying cause linking all 4. But then again, maybe there is some link so it should definately be looking into.
One thing perhaps is that they are letting fights go on for too long in Vegas. I've certainly seen a lot of fights in Vegas allowed to go much further than they would have been if they had been here in England.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 22 Sep 2005, 07:08

silkov, I know you have great knowledge and I can honestly say we've agreed loads more than disagreed (even if you might not know it) on all sorts of topics.

The reason I called you an idiot was because a) your bickering got a thread I was reading on the BOTP forum deleted a few weeks ago :P b) I was doing nothing on Sunday and had time to rapidly respond (I pick my spots wisely

) c) saying "you don't care about fighters" is just about the worst charge you can give to someone who considers themselves a true boxing fan - and I considered this a big misjudgement on your part; from your responses I also got the impression my first post went over your head, which is unfortunate as it would have saved the thread from being (rightly) locked.

______________

There is always something that causes it: be it a bottom rope, weight cutting tactics, dehydration in the late stages, poor referee judgement, poor referee composure, a frozen corner, misjudgement by the ringside doctor in a mid-round inspection... but you just have to accept that in some cases the buck may well stop for the most part with the fighter.

In this particular case - and every tragic fight needs to be dealt with in a purely individual basis - this is what 'caused' the tragic outcome: Johnson making a spectacularly bad decision, at 35 years old, after a long career at or near the top, to stick his chin out and have a war with a world class slugger. I actually said out loud during round 6: what the fornicate are you doing?

Remember what the headliner of Saturday's card did when he was getting tuned up by Pacman - when he knew he was getting beaten he did what Nobby's boys do and went into survival mode. This shows smarts - a true veteren. Luckily his corner made the right decision to stop it shortly after.

Maybe you could blame Johnson's corner for not pulling him out, but the officials shouldn't be blamed, IMO, or at least not heavily. Johnson was punching back and didn't look witless. He looked tired and withered towards the end but as long as he was punching back and staying alert to the punches (albeit taking them) Tony Weeks had little choice but to let it continue. Goodman's analysis should be replayed and studied by the NV commission in any future investigation about all these tragedies that have happened. Just to make sure. Haven't seen the fight since Sat night, but I'm positive near the end I saw Johnson dip his right leg down as he was pushed back towards a corner at (my) left. These are the things you look for if you think a fighter might be hurt between the ears - slight twitching, fast blinking, mild spasming. Often it can turn into full convulsing after the fighter blacks out.

Apparently Johnson comes from a tough neighbourhood in NJ, maybe he was trying to impress his dogs by going macho. Or maybe it was just being at the MGM Grand and in front of the HBO cameras. Either way, being such a veteran he should have known better. And being a veteran who has given so much to the game, let's mourn (or pray) for him as a warrior who made a tragically bad decision... not patronize him as the poor little prizefighter that didn't know what he was doing.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Sep 2005, 07:33

Manos de Oro wrote:silkov, I know you have great knowledge and I can honestly say we've agreed loads more than disagreed (even if you might not know it) on all sorts of topics.

The reason I called you an idiot was because a) your bickering got a thread I was reading on the BOTP forum deleted a few weeks ago :P b) I was doing nothing on Sunday and had time to rapidly respond (I pick my spots wisely ) c) saying "you don't care about fighters" is just about the worst charge you can give to someone who considers themselves a true boxing fan - and I considered this a big misjudgement on your part; from your responses I also got the impression my first post went over your head, which is unfortunate as it would have saved the thread from being (rightly) locked.

______________

There is always something that causes it: be it a bottom rope, weight cutting tactics, dehydration in the late stages, poor referee judgement, poor referee composure, a frozen corner, misjudgement by the ringside doctor in a mid-round inspection... but you just have to accept that in some cases the buck may well stop for the most part with the fighter.

In this particular case - and every tragic fight needs to be dealt with in a purely individual basis - this is what 'caused' the tragic outcome: Johnson making a spectacularly bad decision, at 35 years old, after a long career at or near the top, to stick his chin out and have a war with a world class slugger. I actually said out loud during round 6: what the fornicate are you doing?

Remember what the headliner of Saturday's card did when he was getting tuned up by Pacman - when he knew he was getting beaten he did what Nobby's boys do and went into survival mode. This shows smarts - a true veteren. Luckily his corner made the right decision to stop it shortly after.

Maybe you could blame Johnson's corner for not pulling him out, but the officials shouldn't be blamed, IMO, or at least not heavily. Johnson was punching back and didn't look witless. He looked tired and withered towards the end but as long as he was punching back and staying alert to the punches (albeit taking them) Tony Weeks had little choice but to let it continue. Goodman's analysis should be replayed and studied by the NV commission in any future investigation about all these tragedies that have happened. Just to make sure. Haven't seen the fight since Sat night, but I'm positive near the end I saw Johnson dip his right leg down as he was pushed back towards a corner at (my) left. These are the things you look for if you think a fighter might be hurt between the ears - slight twitching, fast blinking, mild spasming. Often it can turn into full convulsing after the fighter blacks out.

Apparently Johnson comes from a tough neighbourhood in NJ, maybe he was trying to impress his dogs by going macho. Or maybe it was just being at the MGM Grand and in front of the HBO cameras. Either way, being such a veteran he should have known better. And being a veteran who has given so much to the game, let's mourn (or pray) for him as a warrior who made a tragically bad decision... not patronize him as the poor little prizefighter that didn't know what he was doing.

Whats this BOTP forum you keep going on about?.... I've never heard of it!... I think you're mixing me up with someone else.

J · Post by J » 22 Sep 2005, 07:41

boxers of the past.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Sep 2005, 08:22

J wrote:boxers of the past.

aren't we all!...

J · Post by J » 22 Sep 2005, 08:26

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Sep 2005, 10:00

silkov wrote:
jeej wrote:
silkov wrote:Yes the four deaths during the great north run were shocking... they were all quite young as well. Perhaps the injuries to the boxers recently is just bad luck but it should be looked into to see if something is going wrong somewhere.
So the guy was unlucky to be repeatedly beat about the head?
What I meant is perhaps it is bad luck that 4 boxers have been injured in so short a space of time. Sometimes things happen like that... there may be no underlying cause linking all 4. But then again, maybe there is some link so it should definately be looking into.
One thing perhaps is that they are letting fights go on for too long in Vegas. I've certainly seen a lot of fights in Vegas allowed to go much further than they would have been if they had been here in England.

In my personal opinion, the corner are the first line of protection for a boxer after themselves. It sounds from the reports that Johnson had NO CHANCE of winning the fight, was taking a steady beating against a noted puncher and so what was the point in the corner letting him continue. Sure, he WANTED to continue, but sometimes you've surely got to ignore the fighters wishes and pull him out.

I'm not saying it's an easy decision to make, far from it.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Sep 2005, 12:03

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
silkov wrote:
jeej wrote: So the guy was unlucky to be repeatedly beat about the head?
What I meant is perhaps it is bad luck that 4 boxers have been injured in so short a space of time. Sometimes things happen like that... there may be no underlying cause linking all 4. But then again, maybe there is some link so it should definately be looking into.
One thing perhaps is that they are letting fights go on for too long in Vegas. I've certainly seen a lot of fights in Vegas allowed to go much further than they would have been if they had been here in England.
In my personal opinion, the corner are the first line of protection for a boxer after themselves. It sounds from the reports that Johnson had NO CHANCE of winning the fight, was taking a steady beating against a noted puncher and so what was the point in the corner letting him continue. Sure, he WANTED to continue, but sometimes you've surely got to ignore the fighters wishes and pull him out.

I'm not saying it's an easy decision to make, far from it.

Thats my point of view really... the onus is on the corner, Referee and doctor to protect the fighter not only from his opponent but from himself.
Many fighters are too brave for their own good. That is part of the make up of being a fighter... a belief in your own invincibility... otherwise many of them wouldn't be in there to start with.
Corners are often too focused on their fighter winning rather than their fighters health... I've seen it many times, and you can't blame the fighter.
Perhaps doctors should be given more powers to stop fights. I'd like to see fights stopped when a fighter has clearly reached or is reaching the point of exhaustion rather than when he is past that point. I think in England generally this is already done but in America fights are definately allowed to go on for longer imo.

JimmyJamJerusalem · Post by **JimmyJamJerusalem** » 22 Sep 2005, 23:53

Looks like he died, the early hours of this morning. Tragic.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 23 Sep 2005, 01:46

Thought he'd seen it through the dark hours.

Terrible news.

Thoughts with his friends and family.

RIP :( :(

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 Sep 2005, 05:23

Thats really awful. I thought he was going to pull through...
RIP Leavander.