Martin Murray v Julien Marie-Sainte - EBU title

[turbostar]

Marie-Sainte is 33-2 but has mostly crushed cans. His best win is a narrow UD over the awkward Belghecham who made Barker look bad a while back. One of his two losses was an SD over 8 rounds to area level British fighter Tyan Booth in a fight which took place in Canada for some reason.

This should be fairly straightforward for Murray against an opponent who has not faced anyone close to his level.

[Bronxbull666]

Hopefully just a warm up for something bigger. The EBU title is rapidly losing its value, Macklin, Barker and Murray seem to think it gives you a divine right at a world title shot. The European middleweight fighters are poor quality, but easy prey to our lads, who IMO should be fighting top ten world level opposition.

Boring, low quality fight. What are they learning?

[Datsue]

Hopefully just a warm up for something bigger. The EBU title is rapidly losing its value, Macklin, Barker and Murray seem to think it gives you a divine right at a world title shot. The European middleweight fighters are poor quality, but easy prey to our lads, who IMO should be fighting top ten world level opposition.

Boring, low quality fight. What are they learning?

Mate, I think it's time to acknowledge that boxing just isn't like this any more. If you can grab a "world" belt of the 23,456 available, defend it a few times before they stick you in with someone tasty & unknown, & make some money, that's about it for career trajectory.

Think about it like this: Who's actually in the world top ten, once you've discounted the fact that holding any world belt immediately disqualifies you from a ranking with any other sanctioning body? If we're talking an actual top ten, i.e. one of the best ten middleweights in the world belts notwithstanding, half of them hold belts of some kind, so you're not going to get a "top ten world level" fight with them ('cos that'd be a world title fight, wouldn't it?) & the other half are jockeying for position trying to fight them & terrified of losing in case they blow their ranking. That leaves an actual sanctioning body top ten, such as the WBA's:

1. OFFICIAL CHALLENGER VACANT
2. FELIX STURM
3. MARTIN MURRAY
4. PETER QUILLIN
5. JULIEN MARIE SAINTE
6. SEBASTIAN ZBIK
7. JORGE NAVARRO (LAC)
8. GRZEGORZ PROKSA
9. ANDY LEE
10. PATRICK NIELSEN WBA I/C
11. GILBERTO RAMIREZ
12. ROBBIE BRYANT (PABA)

I've made it twelve as the #1 position is vacant. You've got Sturm, who's just lost to Geale, Murray himself, then Quillin (who's looking for a proper big money fight on HBO or something), Sainte, Zbik (who hasn't fought since Sturm beat him up), someone called Navarro, Proksa (who just got done by Golovkin), Lee (whose ribs probably still hurt from Chavez XXL beating them in), Neilsen doesn't fight outside Denmark (& for all I know is related to Brian, which means he won't fight anyone good until he's about 48-0), Ramirez (never heard of him) & Bryant (who?).

Who in that little lot would Murray fight to fulfill your criteria?

World titles are nowadays contested by run-of-the-mill competent fighters with decent connections, or run-of-the-mill fighters with big ethnic followings or gimmicks that draw the punters, because if you've got superlative talent you're promoted to Super-Duper Champion, & big fish in small ponds get all the "regular" title shots, which is exactly what our boys have done at middleweight for the past three/four years.

[Datsue]

Curiosity has got the better of me. Navarro has had twelve fights, & holds his lofty position because he beat, er, Jaime Barboza for something called the WBA FEDELATIN title. Barboza of course has never beaten anyone, but is the kind of willing dude who is up for going to far-flung places & getting beaten up for shiny bits of plastic (he's lost to Brian Magee for what should be Andre Ward's title, & also to the next bloke I'm going to talk about)...

Gilberto Ramirez-Sanchez is a six-foot two Mexican kiddie who is about twelve, looking at him. He holds something called the WBC youth title & judging by his record is being groomed by a big promoter/attracts big crowds. Not really the kinda dude who's going to be looking to come over to the Midlands to fight Martin Murray, is he?

Neilsen is a 21 year old Dane who fights in Denmark, for Team Sauerland. He has fought no-one you've ever heard of, but has nice tattoos.

I'd spend two minutes looking up Robbie Bryant, but I'm losing the will to live. I assume, without looking, he's an Aussie who has some sort of dopey regional belt, is unbeaten in 10-20 fights, & has never fought anyone who could punch back.

Boxing. Gotta love it.

Terry Dooley, formerly of this parish, once said that boxing fans are like marks who go to whores then complain that there's no true love in a brothel. I think we're more like fornicating idiots feeding at a café that advertises food, but when you get there shovels rancid rotting bacon into a trough whilst a big fat sweaty bastard forces your face down into it, screaming "EAT IT! EAT IT, PIGGIES!", & the maggots climb up your nose & in your eyes & you get bits of rotting pig stuck in your teeth. If you throw up into the trough, then you have to eat what you've thrown up, as "the public demands a rematch".

& then some pudendum nicks your wallet.

[dondada]

The WBA FEDELATIN title is one of their better ones. True story.

[Bronxbull666]

Hopefully just a warm up for something bigger. The EBU title is rapidly losing its value, Macklin, Barker and Murray seem to think it gives you a divine right at a world title shot. The European middleweight fighters are poor quality, but easy prey to our lads, who IMO should be fighting top ten world level opposition.

Boring, low quality fight. What are they learning?

Mate, I think it's time to acknowledge that boxing just isn't like this any more. If you can grab a "world" belt of the 23,456 available, defend it a few times before they stick you in with someone tasty & unknown, & make some money, that's about it for career trajectory.

Think about it like this: Who's actually in the world top ten, once you've discounted the fact that holding any world belt immediately disqualifies you from a ranking with any other sanctioning body? If we're talking an actual top ten, i.e. one of the best ten middleweights in the world belts notwithstanding, half of them hold belts of some kind, so you're not going to get a "top ten world level" fight with them ('cos that'd be a world title fight, wouldn't it?) & the other half are jockeying for position trying to fight them & terrified of losing in case they blow their ranking. That leaves an actual sanctioning body top ten, such as the WBA's:

1. OFFICIAL CHALLENGER VACANT
2. FELIX STURM
3. MARTIN MURRAY
4. PETER QUILLIN
5. JULIEN MARIE SAINTE
6. SEBASTIAN ZBIK
7. JORGE NAVARRO (LAC)
8. GRZEGORZ PROKSA
9. ANDY LEE
10. PATRICK NIELSEN WBA I/C
11. GILBERTO RAMIREZ
12. ROBBIE BRYANT (PABA)

I've made it twelve as the #1 position is vacant. You've got Sturm, who's just lost to Geale, Murray himself, then Quillin (who's looking for a proper big money fight on HBO or something), Sainte, Zbik (who hasn't fought since Sturm beat him up), someone called Navarro, Proksa (who just got done by Golovkin), Lee (whose ribs probably still hurt from Chavez XXL beating them in), Neilsen doesn't fight outside Denmark (& for all I know is related to Brian, which means he won't fight anyone good until he's about 48-0), Ramirez (never heard of him) & Bryant (who?).

Who in that little lot would Murray fight to fulfill your criteria?

World titles are nowadays contested by run-of-the-mill competent fighters with decent connections, or run-of-the-mill fighters with big ethnic followings or gimmicks that draw the punters, because if you've got superlative talent you're promoted to Super-Duper Champion, & big fish in small ponds get all the "regular" title shots, which is exactly what our boys have done at middleweight for the past three/four years.

I totally agree with what you are saying. Murray is up there in all 4 major rankings and Macklin and Barker are lingering. I'm thinking along the lines of Quillin, Ramierez, Pirog, Soliman, Mundine, Lee or that French guy (forget his name), even Jermain Taylor or Godoy!

Murray, Macklin and Barker need to get it on as well. I just hate these EBU Italians, Spaniards etc... who are just spoilers and technically boring. Fight for the EBU if you ain't cutting the mustard at world level, by all means. But, it's the fact that most the EBU contenders aren't even definitively the best in their country. You get what I mean?

[smoggy7188]

Quilin is fighting N'Jikam for Pirogs old belt. Murray should go after the winner, a very winnable fight.