Have you ever thought .....

[dalcumly]

If football was organised like professional boxing here's what we might have .

Man Utd have an exclusive deal with SKY SPORTS to cover all their games . Man City have an exclusive deal with ESPN , Chelsea have an exclusive deal with the BBC and Arsenal play their games on ITV . They can't play each other because neither TV company are prepared to give up their rights to allow their team to appear on another network . So all the teams play games against much weaker opposition who don't have contracts with TV companies . To make matters worse ,if the weaker teams agree to play on a particular TV channel ,the others take the huff and refuse to let them play on their channel . How long do you think the football public would put up with this nonsense ?

Well this is the state of British/world boxing , I just need to mention Tyson Fury and David Price to emphasize my point . The boxing public have long known that world/European/British titles mean absolutely nothing because it is unusual for the best to fight the best for the reasons outlined above . Even when somebody puts together a competition to decide the best super middleweight in the world along comes our own Boxing Monthly and declares Lucien Bute their world champion !

There are a number of reasons why boxing is dying ,the TV issue is only one of them . Another is the sorry state of amateur boxing with their headguards , blue and red outfits and computerised scoring leading to a complete lack of interest at a local level ,starving the game of new talent and bringing forward so-called top boxers who can't hack it as professionals because they can't take the fact that someone is punching them hard - Audley Harrison , James DeGale and Amir Khan to name but a few .
The ordinary man in the street has little interest anymore in boxing that's why the national newspapers don't cover the fights . There is no demand from the public for the coverage . There are a very few number of people who are trying to get as much out of the sport before the axe finally falls . I think SKY's recent reduction in boxing coverage is an early indication that this process has begun .
Another ,and final , reason for the decline is that the quality on offer at the small hall shows is dismal . Just look at the adverts in the Boxing News for forthcoming tournaments and then look at the results the following week . Almost all the home town fighters win and while the family and friends of the boxers might pay to watch, the remainder of the public cannot be conned anymore .
I've said before that in the 1950's , 250,000 people bought the Boxing News every week , I think their sales are down to around 10,000 now .
British amateur boxing has to withdraw from all world organisations and start again - no headguards , referees scoring fights and club and international vests being worn . The BBB of C can pass a rule stating that any boxer losing five fights in a row is banned for 6 months but the TV problem cannot be solved . How can anyone force allegedly and Channel Five to allow Fury and Price to fight ??
If anyone thinks I'm talking nonsense about the decline please come back at me with your arguments .
I'm sorry for being so negative but I just hate what's being done to the sport I love . I just wish I had the money to promote myself without managing fighters and just putting on shows where the public would know they would see competitive fights .

[fizzjambo]

Agree with everything you say, and one thing would sort it in my opinion. Bin 90% of the belts. Good-bye British and International Masters, Intercontinetal, International, Youth, World titles, IBO, WBF, GBU, IBU, in fact WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF as well. I'll even live with the Commonwealth and Celtic stuff getting the punt and every interim title going.

Make it simple. Say your a Welterweight from Newcastle. Your path should be Northern Area, English, British, European, World (only one mind). Say your a Cruiserweight from Niger? Your path should be State, Niger, African, World. I think you get the idea.

It would be much harder for Fury and Price to miss each other in this situation as they wouldn't be anywhere near ready to fight for the won world title, say held by Wlad but with Vitali, Haye, Povetkin, hovering in the wings and the European may be seen, and certainly would have been 12 months ago, a step too far with Pulev, Helenius, Ustinov, Chagev, floating around. That leaves the British and and even there Chisora, Harrison, Sexton, all represent half decent tests, but would fall behind the natural Fury/Price dust up.

Until this happens bxing will get f*****d where there are f*****s about, and f**k me there are plenty f*****s out there!

[milpool]

Agree with everything you say, and one thing would sort it in my opinion. Bin 90% of the belts. Good-bye British and International Masters, Intercontinetal, International, Youth, World titles, IBO, WBF, GBU, IBU, in fact WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF as well. I'll even live with the Commonwealth and Celtic stuff getting the punt and every interim title going.

Make it simple. Say your a Welterweight from Newcastle. Your path should be Northern Area, English, British, European, World (only one mind). Say your a Cruiserweight from Niger? Your path should be State, Niger, African, World. I think you get the idea.

It would be much harder for Fury and Price to miss each other in this situation as they wouldn't be anywhere near ready to fight for the won world title, say held by Wlad but with Vitali, Haye, Povetkin, hovering in the wings and the European may be seen, and certainly would have been 12 months ago, a step too far with Pulev, Helenius, Ustinov, Chagev, floating around. That leaves the British and and even there Chisora, Harrison, Sexton, all represent half decent tests, but would fall behind the natural Fury/Price dust up.

Until this happens bxing will get f*****d where there are f*****s about, and f**k me there are plenty f*****s out there!

I dream of this happening one day...

[Bronxbull666]

Interesting analogy, dalcumly. All fair points.

Fizz, I agree with most of what you are saying as regards titles. I posted something similar about my title structure wish. Would love the BBBofC to introduce a realistic, fair, structured ranking and title system. It is simple, a pyramid structure, nearly league based, but not quite;

Southern Midland Northern Wales Scotland N.Ireland
English English Celtic Celtic
British British
Commonwealth or EBU
Intercontinental
World

You have to rank top of your region to get a regional title shot, you then have to beat another regional champ to get a shot at the English/Celtic titles. You win an English title you have to beat Celtic champ and vice versa to get a shot at the British title. Entering another ranking system the British champ can go the Commonwealth or Euro route to get a shot at an Intercontinental title, essentially by beating another continental or territory champion i.e European champ beats Asia-Pacific champ to get a shot at an intercontinental title in which winning would mean entering a World level ranking system.

Keep all 4 major titles, by all means, but divide their affiliations to various territories equally. If you lose say 40% or more of your fights (2 in 5), (2 of 3), (2 of 4), then you go back a level. Mandatories must be fought regularly at all levels and World title unifications be contested every 12 to 18 months.

[freddydoesdallas]

I understand your frustration and let's face it, we all share it but football, premier league especially is not a great comparison. They have to compete with each other on a week to week basis but put them in a cup or Europa league and they weaken their teams in order to try and stay in the premier league or champs league to protect their tv deal.

Promoters and clubs don't want to lose income which means that the bread and butter (league games and mandatories) become important and one offs (cup/big fights) are secondary). In short, money fucks sport as businesses don't like to compete and lose

[Bricks]

Dalculmny- Its a bit extreme isnt it old man?

I dont think Khan can be lumped in with Audley though!

[earsjohn]

The problem with a formal ranking system or league type structure is that it typically fails to account for the greatest truism of all - Boxing is a Business. Some fights would be mandated under the various approaches I have seen proposed, but they simply wouldn' be viable from a promotional or TV point of view. And if no-one is wanting to promote a fight and no-one wants to televise the fight, it's difficult to see how it would happen. This would lead to a situation where worthy champions are stripped for not fighting, while less able fighters who are more popular would be boosted up the rankings bypassing those that have been stripped.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fundamentally against greater clarity and cohesion over the way the various belts and levels slot together, but in a sport governed to such an extent by £££s, I can't see any effective change in the near future.

What I would like to see, and would potentially be a start down the road to this ranking nirvana, is a single, wholly independent, global governing body. One that is ultimately responsible, and to which all licencees are accountable, for a wide variety of issues in boxing - drug testing, discipline, judging, financial hardship, post-career support, training and a whole host more. Until the sport starts to take a little more responsibility for the mess it has found itself in, there's not really a great deal of hope for positive change in the near future.

[winkveron]

Do you think that the boxers/promoters are the only people who could force this to happen?

Some people wouldn't want to be 'revolutionaries' and put their potential livelihoods on the line just to make boxing romantic for us hardcore fans, unfortunately. For example, if someone offers you £40k for a Euro shot but you haven't earnt it maybe, are you going to turn it down out of principle or take the payday and feed your family. It's a real catch 22.

But I would love the pyramid system as mentioned above.

[keithmoonhangover]

Agree with everything you say, and one thing would sort it in my opinion. Bin 90% of the belts. Good-bye British and International Masters, Intercontinetal, International, Youth, World titles, IBO, WBF, GBU, IBU, in fact WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF as well. I'll even live with the Commonwealth and Celtic stuff getting the punt and every interim title going.

Make it simple. Say your a Welterweight from Newcastle. Your path should be Northern Area, English, British, European, World (only one mind). Say your a Cruiserweight from Niger? Your path should be State, Niger, African, World. I think you get the idea.

It would be much harder for Fury and Price to miss each other in this situation as they wouldn't be anywhere near ready to fight for the won world title, say held by Wlad but with Vitali, Haye, Povetkin, hovering in the wings and the European may be seen, and certainly would have been 12 months ago, a step too far with Pulev, Helenius, Ustinov, Chagev, floating around. That leaves the British and and even there Chisora, Harrison, Sexton, all represent half decent tests, but would fall behind the natural Fury/Price dust up.

Until this happens bxing will get f*****d where there are f*****s about, and f**k me there are plenty f*****s out there!

Those things are just not going to happen. Boxing has moved on, for better or worse. Forget about it going back to 'the good old days' because that's never going to happen.

What we need to do is make the most of what we have.

[WildWaylon]

There should be a progression system. You shouldnt have a Commonwealth title holder fighting for a World title, European yes. I began following boxing as a young kid back in the 1950s and boxing was a top sport then. Football seems to dominate sport now. Nearly all boxing is predictable now so the excitement of who will win just isnt there anymore.

[hurlock]

Boxing is a business professional boxing as always been this way

[dalcumly]

Yes boxing for those participating is a business for the rest of us its a sport . And it us who pay to keep the business going so its only 'us' who can bring about change . We can only bring the changes by using our pockets .

I've already mentioned in the start of this topic TV deals ,amateur boxing and pathetic match ups as being main problems .
I'd like to add another - the fact that promoters can also be managers . The theory is that a boxer 'employ's a manager to look after his interests ( note my use of 'his' here - don't get me started !!!) , the manager then goes out and gets the best deal for his 'employer ' . How can he get the best deal if he is also the promoter ? Does he negotiate with himself to get more money for his employer ie the boxer ? I don't think so .

When we scrap the manager/promoter deal it means that managers can negotiate with any promoter ( also TV network ) to put on the fights we all want to see . It really is that simple . At the moment for example , SKY have a deal with Matchroom who control Kell Brook ,so it would seem Brook can only fight on SKY . If Brook was managed by a normal guy from Sheffield and an independent promoter offerred Brook a suitable deal to fight on his promotion then the TV networks would have to bid to show that promotion . At the moment the arrangements are round the wrong way , thereby benefitting the TV channels and a few promoters and damaging professional boxing in general - and the sport for us , the fans , who pay the money which keeps the whole thing going !!

[earsjohn]

Yes boxing for those participating is a business for the rest of us its a sport . And it us who pay to keep the business going so its only 'us' who can bring about change . We can only bring the changes by using our pockets .

I've already mentioned in the start of this topic TV deals ,amateur boxing and pathetic match ups as being main problems .
I'd like to add another - the fact that promoters can also be managers . The theory is that a boxer 'employ's a manager to look after his interests ( note my use of 'his' here - don't get me started !!!) , the manager then goes out and gets the best deal for his 'employer ' . How can he get the best deal if he is also the promoter ? Does he negotiate with himself to get more money for his employer ie the boxer ? I don't think so .

When we scrap the manager/promoter deal it means that managers can negotiate with any promoter ( also TV network ) to put on the fights we all want to see . It really is that simple . At the moment for example , SKY have a deal with Matchroom who control Kell Brook ,so it would seem Brook can only fight on SKY . If Brook was managed by a normal guy from Sheffield and an independent promoter offerred Brook a suitable deal to fight on his promotion then the TV networks would have to bid to show that promotion . At the moment the arrangements are round the wrong way , thereby benefitting the TV channels and a few promoters and damaging professional boxing in general - and the sport for us , the fans , who pay the money which keeps the whole thing going !!

Don't forget any instances where manager=promoter=significant shareholder in TV channel.